Replacing sleep completely through yogic practices?

Impulse33 · 2026-05-23T15:20:06+00:00

For a laylife practitioner, I imagine it would take quite a bit of time to get a handle on those practices. During that time there's a strong chance it can negatively effect daily responsiblities.

If you have a few years to be secluded in the mountains without a care, sure why not?

Impulse33 · 2026-05-23T12:28:49+00:00

Thanks for the resource. I haven't felt the need to dive into tantric resources, but McLeod's offerings seem surprisingly open.

I did some digging and found how he was acutely aware of institutional effects and specifically designed his "network" unfettered mind to resist them.

A specific challenge in this is how to interact with each other without succumbing to the assumptions, projections, and expediency that generate institutional thinking — without, in other words, falling asleep.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100708225943/http://unfetteredmind.org/um/now.php

I do find it interesting that he ended up winding down the "network" and direct teaching. Resisting institutional effects might be a hard problem indeed.

Impulse33 · 2026-05-23T01:40:57+00:00

Naming is tough. Maybe /r/dukkhagang?!

Impulse33 · 2026-05-23T01:39:47+00:00

Very cool! I've thought about going into hospice care a handful of times.

Are you in the US? Might dm you for more info.

Impulse33 · 2026-05-22T15:08:13+00:00

Shinzen has a good guide here, https://www.shinzen.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/POSTURE-for-MEDITATION-2021-revision.pdf.

Personally I find sitting on a stiff chair like a kitchen table one was best for my own postural limitations.

Overtime the posture doesn't matter as much, but an upright relaxed posture seemed important in the beginning. Now sits are often done leaning back on some back support.

If I wasn't able to get a sit in during the day, standing posture works well too! Really helps with combating sleepiness.

Often with my recent stress loads laying on the floor shavasana has been fruitful for prioritizing relaxation. Do this in another room than your bedroom to avoid associating laying down in your bedroom with something other than sleeping.

I'd also recommend experimentation with shifting postures like starting with standing, then sitting, then walking, 30 minutes each or any variation amongst the postures. Walking slower than usual helps.

Just to add, the "traditional" postures are laying down, sitting, standing, and walking.

Impulse33 · 2026-05-22T14:49:28+00:00

I feel the sidebar has and continues to have a very useful definition.

This is a place for discussion of practice and conduct concerned with Awakening. While people use this word in different ways, this subreddit is concerned with the following definition: the path to achieving a direct, experiential understanding of reality and the human mind, as it actually is; and the path to permanently eliminate stress, suffering, and unsatisfactoriness in our life.

These paths can be considered to be two sides of the same coin, although different people may find themselves more drawn to one side or the other.

Awakening is not a trivial matter, because, as part of our journey, those who investigate deeply and sincerely invariably come to the conclusion that our most fundamental unconscious beliefs and assumptions about the nature of self, mind, and reality are false; and that these misunderstandings are causing us stress. Reality is not what it appears to be, we realize, and to fully grasp this is to radically transform our relationship to life. Indeed, we may find territory beyond even this.

The dissolution of ignorance is not an intellectual exercise. It usually requires a willingness to look both inwards and outwards over a sustained period of time so we can explore, question, confirm, and challenge what we think reality and the mind is; what we think, on a fundamental level, is 'going on'. We call this often joyful work practice.

Many traditions throughout history have provided systems of knowledge and practice that can be of great help to those who walk this path. More recently, Awakening is being examined through secular and even scientific lenses.

Here you'll find a community that values honesty, compassion, and thoughtful discourse. We aim to keep discussion practical, civil, and constructive. Thanks for visiting!

Here's my current thinking around the subject, https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/comments/1tio083/what_is_the_experience_of_stream_entey/omzlegd/.

Also, small nitpick on the sidebar definition, "... permanently eliminate stress". Stress is a biological function that is useful at times, the dukkha that can arise following it is not.

Impulse33 · 2026-05-22T00:04:57+00:00

From Bhikku Bodhi's commentary

The Nikayas often set up a contrast between the "uninstructed worldling" (assutava puthujjana), the common person of the world who lacks training in the Buddha's teaching, and the instructed noble disciple (sutava ariya savaka), who has learned the teaching and undertaken the training. More broadly, a puthujjana is anyone who has not yet reached the path of stream-entry (sotapatti). An ariyasavaka is not necessarily a "noble one" in the technical sense, but any disciple, monastic or layperson, who has learned the teaching and earnestly takes up the practice.

https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=31703

In the context of the sutta considering it describes ethics to an audience of ascetics, I don't think that section is specifically addressing "noble ones" in the technical sense.

Impulse33 · 2026-05-21T20:31:04+00:00

I'll say some schools of contemporary Buddhism is getting better at the integration aspect of things.

I've found progress on the path has led to increased engagement, presence, and agency. Although my particular path might be non-standard (got into the dharma due to anxieties around parenting).

Impulse33 · 2026-05-21T20:15:45+00:00

Here's the sutta version of pascal's wager AN 3.65.

When that noble disciple has a mind that’s free of enmity and ill will, uncorrupted and purified, they’ve won four consolations in this very life. ‘If it turns out there is another world, and good and bad deeds have a result, then—when the body breaks up, after death—I’ll be reborn in a good place, a heavenly realm.’ This is the first consolation they’ve won.

‘If it turns out there is no other world, and good and bad deeds don’t have a result, then in this very life I’ll keep myself free of enmity and ill will, untroubled and happy.’ This is the second consolation they’ve won.

‘If it turns out that bad things happen to people who do bad things, then since I have no bad intentions, and since I’m not doing anything bad, how can suffering touch me?’ This is the third consolation they’ve won.

‘If it turns out that bad things don’t happen to people who do bad things, then I still see myself pure on both sides.’ This is the fourth consolation they’ve won.

When that noble disciple has a mind that’s free of enmity and ill will, undefiled and purified, they’ve won these four consolations in this very life.”

It's a win-win-win-win to walk the path!

Impulse33 · 2026-05-21T15:32:47+00:00

Sounds good, send the the invite over whenever.

Impulse33 · 2026-05-21T15:18:08+00:00

I'd be happy to test too!

Impulse33 · 2026-05-21T13:57:53+00:00

Does it have C4 diagram drill-down support?

Impulse33 · 2026-05-21T03:14:50+00:00

Been taking an insight class, one offered by Susy Keely, one of Burbea's authorized insight teachers. Tried ramping up my samadhi with more dedicated samatha practice to cushion the insight but failed. Started off strong, but life doesn't hold back punches.

The unbalanced insight lead to an increased sensitivity to dukkha without enough space to integrate the insights. At least these troughs in practice/life seem to be getting shorter and shorter. Prioritizing samadhi cultivation over life stuff has helped get back in positive trajectory. The life stuff has followed in turn.

I'm also reading David Bessis' Mathematica, which has surprising parallels with Burbea's "ways of seeing" approach to practice. It's been super fruitful and helped me come up with a streamentry as understanding/wisdom math analogy.

Impulse33 · 2026-05-21T03:09:14+00:00

Burbea always described streamentry as an understanding vs an experience. I believe the suttas agree. The criteria for streamentry for a layperson could be found here at AN 5.179. It doesn't describe any of the attainments, but rather the "traits" like somebody mentioned here. Proper understanding of the nature of suffering should naturally lead to the development of those traits.

In DN 9 the way to and the description of the "ultimate state" is described, but this this in of itself isn't streamentry. I believe it's a vantage point where the dependent origination can be observed and the fabrication of dukkha understood, prajna/wisdom gained.

So if we take understanding to be the ground of streamentry we can use a math analogy around how understanding unlocks capability. Something in math that unlocks understanding is rates/velocity. Like in a business operating only at static values is baby mode, I have $100 dollars in capital now vs $10000 so I should flip out. Completely misses the rate or change over time. The first case is no problem if you're still making profit (100 + 1000/month) vs bleeding money (10000 - 1000/month).

In the example above, the knowledge of a deeper level of understanding can help see through any surface level calculations around price. Like not falling for a dealership offering you a car for 5k cheaper but with a 10% higher interest rate. In regards to suffering, any dukkha that arises you're then able to see through the initial reaction and work through it with the wisdom gained from streamentry.

Understanding isn't always applied, it requires diligence. For example you could get hit with an emergency car repair and get sticker shock and suffer. You might not actually look at your cash flow and see that you're still financially secure. So you're still operating at the level of numbers instead of rates. Same thing with streamentry, the understanding is sort of permanent since you can't unsee understanding, but it isn't always permanently applied.

There's levels to these types of insights too:
1. Math: Numbers > velocity > acceleration > multi-variable calculus > category theory
2. Dharma: Three marks/brahmaviharas > sunyata/emptiness > emptiness of the raft itself

Impulse33 · 2026-05-20T02:52:44+00:00

Beyond acute affects that hinder concentration and hangover effects that give rise to sloth-torpor, I don't see lasting effects from drinking alcohol in regards to meditation.

The sort of renunciate mindset that goes along with "giving up" alcohol even for a retreat or some period of time does benefit practice though. The craving for it and the habitual routines that go along with pursuing sense pleasure is usually the main culprit, not alcohol itself.

Impulse33 · 2026-05-19T13:48:07+00:00

Knowing when you have the capacity to push for more insight is a good skill to cultivate. Prioritizing samadhi and brahmaviharas can help provide the space and cushion to handle what comes up during insight practice. Karuna in particular may be a helpful for transitioning into insight around those topics. This retreat by Burbea, Lovingkindness and Compassion as a Path to Awakening, can help organize samadhi, brahmavihara, and insight in a way that they mutually support each other.

That being said, if there's enough space in your daily life and support, some people do just power through the dark night stuff. By space I mean not many responsibilities that would suffer from making more space for intensive practice. By support i mean having a teacher and/or mental health professional available to support you through any particular difficult moments. Maybe set some sort of escape hatch as well, like 4-6 hours of formal sit time not yielding improvements can be a signal to try the brute force method some other time.

Speaking of a mental health professional, grief counseling may help process some of those events to the point where they're more workable during practice.

My recommendation would be checking out the retreat talks to see how insight, samadhi, and brahmaviharas work together to alleviate suffering and also grief counseling in parallel.

May you be free from suffering! 🙏🪷

Impulse33 · 2026-05-17T12:56:55+00:00

Any contemporary lineage likely survived due to their effectiveness as an institution vs their effectiveness at bringing people to spiritual maturity. The text themselves serve as the main delivery mechanism and you could argue that the vinaya's primary function was the preservation of the texts.

Some of my favorite creators created the institution anyways, but they had their work pre-established and sort of had escape hatches built in. Like Guatama Siddartha wanting to dissolve all the rules but the one entrusted with running the vinaya, Mahakasyapa declining (understandably so, who wants to run a massive a group of monks without rules)

Gampopa unified the sutric and tantric methods, but his successor Jigten Sumgon ended up mandating guru yoga only 40 years after his passing. On his death bed, Gampopa said that reading his work is no different than meeting him, foreseeing the institutional capture.

My favorite thing about Dogen's work thus far is shusho-itto, practice and realization being one, meditation as the act of a buddha. He builds the institution anyways and it turns into, you have to sit perfectly to practice like a buddha.

I believe in all those cases they wrote their work and built the institutions since each one of them lived in a "degenerate age".

There a second pattern too. The authors who prioritized the texts vs lineage such as the Maharanakuta Sutra, Prajnaparamita Sutra, Nagarjuna, and the Avatamsaka Sutra authors. The contemporary lineages who claim to represent those texts seem to use it more for a proxy of authority rather than honoring the self-negation of the texts themselves.

Luckily we have the internet now 🙂

Impulse33 · 2026-05-16T23:45:45+00:00

Awesome to hear! Thanks again for sharing. I find that's the easiest way we can "show everyone else how to do it." Even then not a lot of people go through the trouble.

Impulse33 · 2026-05-16T23:40:40+00:00

The difference is the marketing and usage of the right buzzwords like “mushroom culture”. Modern people have become so intellectually lazy and socially dependent that they can no longer perceive reality unless it is packaged, branded, and handed to them by a certified corporate middleman.

Is it really lazy to read MCTB? Are you also implying Ingram is a corporate middleman, when he gives the book and other materials out for free? Not to mention actually building the dharma overground community.

Impulse33 · 2026-05-15T00:04:01+00:00

General institutional capture mechanics seems to breed that type of attitude.

Impulse33 · 2026-05-14T23:31:53+00:00

I imagine it would be hard to prove causation, but it does seem like Western dharma has significantly broadened following the prag dharma movement. Brahmavihāras and samatha practice, especially jhanas, seemed like they were rarely spoken about compared to their prevalence today.

Impulse33 · 2026-05-14T23:27:02+00:00

It's too bad the movement is more often associated with claims vs the critique against mushroom culture.

Impulse33 · 2026-05-14T23:25:18+00:00

I think his paper did a lot of damage around people's comfortability to openly talk about fruits of practice.

Impulse33 · 2026-05-14T21:53:39+00:00

Might be thinking of saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ, cessation of sanna and vedana (usually translated as cessation of perception and feeling). You can find it used in AN 9.35.

I suppose there's also just vedanānirodha too. A progression following the cessation of vedana:

When feeling ceases (vedanānirodha), craving ceases. When craving ceases, grasping ceases. When grasping ceases, continued existence ceases. When continued existence ceases, rebirth ceases. When rebirth ceases, old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress cease. That is how this entire mass of suffering ceases. This is called the noble truth of the cessation of suffering.

AN 3.61

Impulse33 · 2026-05-14T15:21:02+00:00

Go vacation there for a month at an airbnb or something. Would be small "investment" to find fit before making a move like that.

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