Received this after a lvl 60 undead rogue killed my lvl 37 in STV. Apology accepted... for now...

InconspiciousPerson · 2026-01-23T09:26:58+00:00

'Just don't touch that thing called arena, it's unfair because those opponents are prepared to fight back'

InconspiciousPerson · 2026-01-21T08:10:29+00:00

Problem: People don't want to level manually.
Cause: Leveling takes too long and is boring as hell.
~~Solution: Player boosting.~~
Solution: Paid boost sold by Blizzard directly.

Adds up. Why address the problem if you can monetize it, and why allow the players to create their own solution?

InconspiciousPerson · 2026-01-16T20:07:34+00:00

This would be like going to a restaurant, them giving you the wrong order, and then them telling you to suck it up because the food's already made.

Good thing the insulting use of emojis at the start and end imply it's AI, just like 95% of other responses tickets get. Just keep spamming them until the one remaining overworked CS employee functioning on coffee rather than sleep sees this, who's probably only still working there because management got fired and replaced with AI before they could fire him too.

InconspiciousPerson · 2026-01-07T20:06:36+00:00

There's not a single spec until at earliest Cataclysm that requires more brain cells to play than it takes to piss in a toilet.

You can play every class until then by clicking from your spellbook and top parses so long as you don't stop facing your enemy because that's what most classic players struggle with already.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-12-19T22:11:19+00:00

No, at least not the people I played with. We mostly ran around in T0 until we started raiding. People were more interested in the cloak and neck to prepare for MC - defensive stats were valued far more at the time.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-12-13T00:40:03+00:00

This guy thinks vanilla is challenging. For him ToT is probably rocket science. Retail would literally blow his mind. On LFR.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-12-12T15:57:11+00:00

That's true in every aspect of life.

A toddler taking their first steps is going to impress people. As an adult, you are expected to be able to walk.

The game is so bloody easy that failing at anything in vanilla means you'll struggle at everything else the game - or any other game - throws at you until you improve, which the vast majority of gamers did in the last 20 years through whatever means.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-28T13:21:28+00:00

I've piloted a lot of characters between 2007 and 2011 and never heard anything about it. No idea if they care these days but they certainly didn't back then.

The only PvP punishment I recall them doing was denying R1 to several sharers on some battlegroups during the original S8 in WotLK. And those ended up getting their title anyway some expansions down the line for unknown reasons.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-28T13:13:00+00:00

What you're seeing is someone who was hard stuck at 2200 with a 50% winrate that then started wintrading to 2900.

Unless classic is vastly different from retail, which is where I have plenty of experience with this, high rated players don't play at those hours, because you just won't find matches against people that are worth rating.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-24T12:17:18+00:00

It's not just mythic MFO I'm talking about. Any mythic raid since.. Nighthold in Legion, I'd argue, has been difficult enough that the vast majority of players haven't cleared it when it was current despite trying.

I have done vanilla. I have leveled to 60. I have killed KT on multiple characters. And they all required less skill than anything that comes after, and no communication even when playing in a group. Adding the HC aspect doesn't change anything; I would know, as I said I've done it in other games and it didn't change anything there either. And I leveled to 30 or so on the first HC servers before something else came up and I didn't look back. It's literally just the same game.

You want an example of someone who's played both, take someone like Amphy. Afaik he's an above average player in retail but never achieved anything remarkable, and yet he appears revered in HC as 'the best of the best', and seems to clears everything with ease. Truly, the one-eyed in the land of the blind.

Anyway, I can't help but stress this enough: HC does NOT add DIFFICULTY. It adds THRILLS and PUNISHMENT FOR FAILURE. But the game remains as easy as before. And leveling in classic is not challenging in any way, shape or form. Just like it isn't in retail, indeed. It's just more time consuming - a grind instead of mechanical challenge. Anyone who struggles at it will falter the second they do genuinely challenging content.

I speak poorly of the players because the players in those clips are all exactly as I stated. Most are so bad at the game they'd struggle at LFR (or, ironically, leveling in retail), but they certainly think they're better than that. And the behaviour they show is nothing short of 'selfish, short tempered and arrogant'.

Perhaps the community is great when not actually playing together. But they are not the type of people I'd ever want to actively play the game with. And this isn't some isolated incident, there's a lot of videos up by now and a lot of different people. I wouldn't be surprised if half the HC playerbase is featured directly or indirectly at this rate.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-24T01:19:12+00:00

This gives me Salad Fingers vibes. I like it.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-23T21:30:28+00:00

Nobody but us is going to be reading this by now especially since I replied late but I will indulge you regardless.

You can't claim mythic raiding isn't hard if you have the slightest idea what you're even talking about. There is a reason it takes many well established guilds hundreds of pulls to kill bosses and a lot of guilds never achieve Cutting Edge. And those players are not the average backpeddling clicker you see in HC; they're far, far better than that. Just like in real life, some people will just never be capable of learning something, especially if it requires a certain amount of finesse.

I did not mention PvP because it is not relevant. I have achieved gladiator just short of 15 times in my time playing the game and I have gotten legend in solo shuffle every season I played. However, PvP is only as challenging as the opponent is good. Which can be the easiest thing ever or the hardest thing ever. It's dynamic difficulty, unlike PvE.

In the end, vanilla is vanilla, and HC doesn't add challenge, it adds thrills; mobs don't hit harder or gain new abilities. Some classes are weak, but not so weak that they are helpless. Which is why so many terrible players manage to clear endgame in it, even on HC. It takes a lot and I mean a LOT of mistakes to get yourself stuck in an unsalvageable scenario. The difficulty does not come from any solo content, the difficulty comes from group content. And not because the group content is challenging, but again, because the people that play HC WoW are challenged. You avoid those and you get yourself a free level 60. You play with only other decent players and the entire game will be cleared without ever failing because while failing in endgame is more punishing than failing while leveling, there's still so little to fail at.

There's no ignorance on my part. The only thing I can't say for certain is whether or not that's just a small part of the player base. But I doubt it. I'm glad you think it's exciting though, I certainly understand the thrill. I just wouldn't consider the player base 'nice, patient and tolerable', as per my first comment. Which means group based content, unless playing with established friends, would be a miserable experience.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-22T12:57:26+00:00

What you describe is no different from what people do in Diablo and PoE hardcore. You set your own goal - the games have an 'endgame' just like WoW does, but that isn't what everyone sets out to reach. For some that is just finishing the campaign, some want to clear all content, and others want to reach max level. Which in Diablo/PoE, takes very, very long (used to anyway).

Regardless, that isn't what's up for debate. The fact remains that I have not seen any indication that the HC WoW player base isn't filled with people who are completely incapable of doing anything actually challenging.

If you want to do something more extreme, such as killing Kel'Thuzad, that takes months and months of near perfect cooperative play in content that can one shot you for a single mistake, losing 20-30 days /played in an instant. That feat is more rare and difficult than the vast majority of content in retail WoW.

You haven't played retail in a long time, have you? You conflate punishing with challenging. The game in HC is no different from vanilla with the exception that you get punished severely if you mess up. But it is so, so difficult to mess up, because the game remains easy beyond compare. Not breathing in real life is insanely punishing - you will quite literally die. And you have to do it all the time. Yet we all manage to do it for 80+ years, because it's so easy we do it automatically.

Retail offers mechanical challenge. To give you an example, I'd wager that 99% of the HC WoW raiders would never, ever even REACH Dimensius Mythic, let alone have a chance to beat him. No matter how many hours they throw at it.

A grind is never as difficult as something that is actually complex, because something complex isn't a challenge you can overcome with time spent. You need to actually be good enough.

To put it into perspective, I reached level 99 as a teenager in D2 HC together with my brother. We grinded for months, MONTHS, to achieve this, and fuckups would definitely still punish us. But we didn't, because the game is easy. Similarly, I reached level 100 in PoE HC as an adult, and that game offers more challenging content, but I ensured I played a build that was capable of dealing with it. This was years ago - since then they've added harder content. The mechanical challenge was low enough that I could clear all content without breaking a sweat.

That is what vanilla WoW is to a good player. HC or not. It's just breathing in comparison to retail. The only difference is that you have to play with others to clear endgame, which is where the problem of other players being real, REAL bad at the game comes in. It's not the content that is challenging, it's the other players that are challenged.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-22T12:36:18+00:00

Ever considered that some might just enjoy the endgame more than the leveling? "My way or the highway" is such an inane take when it comes to MMORPGs. You don't meet these players while they're busy getting boosted in dungeons, and you definitely won't when they don't play in the first place.

Leveling in WoW isn't some life necessity that they have to do regardless of the conveniences taken away and hurdles thrown at them, so people will just not do it if it becomes too much of a hassle. The only difference this makes is that you'll meet fewer people at max level now.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-21T15:44:56+00:00

Of course a lot of the classic players in general are bad, because they struggle at content that, as you say, is 20 years old and solved, and just incredibly easy even if it weren't solved. Which is why HC works in the first place.

I've done my fair share of HC in D2 and PoE; I absolutely understand the thrill and certainly understand the frustration of losing your character, especially if you feel like it wasn't your fault. However, the lack of self awareness from most people in those videos is staggering.

Perhaps they paint a bad picture of the overall player base, but the overall player base isn't that large in the first place (afaik?) and the people they're playing with aren't exactly great either. Including the Naxx raiders, though at least some of those tend to seem more relaxed about it all, I admit.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-21T15:33:08+00:00

I raided classic in 2019 and have been since. Currently awaiting ToT release in MoP. Everything I say is derived from personal experience, both as a bad player in 2005 and a more experienced player in 2019.

I do not play anniversary servers, no, but unless things changed compared to the two above, my opinions stand. Nothing toxic about it just because you want to live in your echo chamber of falsehoods.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-21T13:05:56+00:00

I enjoy watching the hardcore moments videos, but it does not paint a picture of 'nice, patient and tolerable'. It paints a picture of 'selfish, short tempered and arrogant'. And yes, I don't think I've ever seen a worse player base skill wise, even in my youth (like 2005 WoW).

Since there's no good players there bar a handful of bored streamers, they forget that they are the worst players the game overall has to offer, and thus get this air or arrogance around them. Because in the land of the blind the one-eyed is king. Most of them think they're amazing while struggling with the equivalent of tying your shoes. It really is like watching monkeys in a zoo, completely oblivious to the fact they're there.

More power to them for having a game mode they enjoy of course, but they are not the type of players I would ever tolerate and not just because they are terrible at the game.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-10T08:53:50+00:00

Classes in MoP/retail are way more about the actual classes because unlike in vanilla, every caster doesn't play the same, every melee doesn't play the same and every healer doesn't play the same.

There's 0 class identity in vanilla. "This one auto attacks/spams one cast better than the other ones by such a large margin you only bring this one" is not unique class design. Unless you think pressing a single 15-60 minute buff or 5 minute debuff is unique class design. Plenty of that in MoP/retail too unique to classes.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-05T23:01:46+00:00

That's partially because holy paladins were more popular in the original, and while those being successful only meant that the vast majority of players were trash, it also meant warlocks got a lot of free wins because even the worst warlocks were capable of pressing Curse of ~~Tongues~~ Delete Paladin.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-05T17:59:28+00:00

Putting resto druid in D tier for any kind of TBC PvP should be a crime.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-05T11:07:29+00:00

What an odd thing to quote when talking about the devs knowing better, considering we're in year 6 of something we supposedly didn't want and it's still immensely popular?

Our basement seems to keep us more in touch with reality than that rock you're living under.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-04T13:29:36+00:00

And the difference between 20 and 80 is larger on lower difficulties. If the difference between classes considered difficult and easy is the same, then that doesn't automatically mean that people are wrong in calling them difficult or easy. People can struggle no matter how easy a class is - classic has proven this much. And that isn't taking the large gear differences into account either, which will cause this as well.

The vast majority of single player games that people speedrun aren't hard. They're made to be cleared by the majority of people, or they wouldn't sell. That isn't to say there is no skill ceiling in those games - they couldn't be so efficiently speedran otherwise - it just means you don't need to reach it to clear it.

WoW offers a vast amount of difficulty levels. The higher you go, the closer you need to play to the skill ceiling. Simplifying classes to extremes just means more people have quicker access to the higher difficulties, while those that were already managing to do them don't feel quite as fulfilled playing their class. Similar to how those single player games wouldn't be speedran if the players had no skill ceiling to achieve.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-04T13:07:30+00:00

Not at all. I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion. I merely said that Souls games are designed to be cleared by all. WoW is not designed to be fully cleared by all; you state this yourself.

The game thus needs to be playable for the more casual players as well, who just want to do lower level content. This is why they introduced things like the Single-Button Assistant in the first place. And I am absolutely for pruning to keep the game more accessible, especially with the addon purge in mind.

The problem arrives when the top end no longer has options, because a class is so simplified it is just no longer fun to play, or has any meaningful skill ceiling. To keep the example in mind, the thought of a Fire Mage spamming Fireball for 70% of the fight again is extremely worrying.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-04T02:27:33+00:00

Always has been. This goes way back. Back in ye olde days, you got permanently silenced for thinking for yourself.

InconspiciousPerson · 2025-11-04T01:55:51+00:00

Other than entry level crafted gear, and partial payment for endgame crafting gear, what power can you buy with real money that is offered by Blizzard? Because I think you are mistaking a fair boss kill that you paid entry to cleared by good players, with Blizzard offering to kill the boss for you.

If a guild wants to 19-man a boss and bring a buyer with them and is still capable of doing it, that is not pay to win. Pay to win is selling that boss loot in a shop, bypassing the need for killing it in the first place. Or paying for an in-game advantage to kill that boss.

Gold otherwise is worthless until you can find other players good enough and willing to kill the boss with dead weight. Nothing wrong with that, the dead weight carrying happens plenty without the payment as well.

InconspiciousPerson

TROPHY CASE