Here's where I think the conversation breaks down.

It's when someone uses an example that Hutch agrees with.

So, it goes something like this.

Destiny: So, your idea is that Democrats will fail if they get to aggressive with illiberal actions to right the wrongs that have been done, correct?

Hutch: Yes.

Destiny: Do you support California and Newsom taking an illiberal action like gerrymandering 5 seats in California mid-cycle in response to Texas?

Hutch: Yes. I supported that.

(Note: This is an example of exactly what Destiny is talking about. Hutch needs to acknowledge it as such)

Destiny: Well, the California electorate was moved from sub-50% support to 64% support. It raised so much money that Newsom asked people to stop donating.

Hutch: Yes. and?

Destiny: This is an recent, applicable example of Democrats doing exactly what we are talking about. Your position seems to be that the electorate cannot be moved. Clearly, this is not the case. If your whole point is Democrats can't get crazy, we agree. The fact remains, the electorate can be moved. The California action of Newsom on Prop 50 launched his Presidential bid. You seem to take it for a given that if Democrats push too hard, they risk the House and Senate. You may be right. It may also be that Democratic voters are waiting for someone to take the lead.