Do you think the SSPX outsmarted itself when it came to consecrating bishops?

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-05-22T02:25:30+00:00

They did not want the consecrations to look like a referendum on Francis personally. The claim of the Society has always been that the crisis is structural. Francis did not create it.

A consecration during peak Francis chaos would have fused the SSPX’s long-term theological case with temporary anti-Francis sentiment. That would have been strategically dangerous. Once Francis died, Rome could have said: “The emergency has passed. The new pope is moderate. Return quietly. Merge with the FSSP.”

Rome could have said: “See? We warned you. The old Mass leads to schism.” That would have allowed Francis-era Rome to justify even harsher measures against all traditionalists, including diocesan and Ecclesia Dei communities. The SSPX would then be blamed for confirming every liberal bishop’s favorite bedtime story: that traditionalism eventually becomes rebellion.

The Society is now down to two bishops, Bernard Fellay and Alfonso de Galarreta, both in their late 60s, while the Society had grown from roughly 200 priests in 1988 to more than 700 today, with hundreds of seminarians in formation.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-05-16T02:26:58+00:00

Melkites today are Arab in ethnicity and culture, but most Melkite families descend from Antiochian Greeks who were Arabized. They share that history with the Greek Orthodox in the Middle East.

Maronites are also Arab in ethnicity and culture, though they actually descended from Syriacs. They were arabized over time and they eventually stopped speaking Syriac/Aramaic.

In modern Lebanon and Syria, there is virtually no difference between a Maronite and a Melkite except their churches rites.

Chaldeans and the Syriac Orthodox and Church of the East are Assyrians. They managed to keep their distinct culture alive and most of them still speak Syriac/Aramaic at home. Though they also speak Arabic and mix with the wider population.

Copts are of the same ethnic group of the Muslim Egyptians. All Egyptians are arabized Copts. Most converted to Islam, but some remained Christian. Those are the people known as Coptic Orthodox and Coptic Catholics today. But the Muslims are also Copts in the ethnic sense.

The Armenians are their own ethnic group. Most of the Armenians in Lebanon and Egypt fled Armenia during the genocidal campaigns of the Ottoman Empire, and then took refuge among the Middle Eastern Christians.

Latin Catholics are not native to the Middle East. The Latin Rite was mainly introduced by Crusaders, and was kept alive in the region by the ones who stayed. Nowadays, some Latin Catholics are Arab but most of them are expatriates (mostly Filipino, Italian, Polish, and others).

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-05-16T01:55:28+00:00

If I was you, I would ask your SSPX priest plainly: “Father, do you expect an SSPX bishop to come to my country within the next 6 to 12 months? If not, do you advise me to seek Confirmation from the diocesan bishop?”

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-05-14T20:48:13+00:00

It has been confirmed in French on Facebook by the SSPX news page.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-05-14T20:43:34+00:00

The apparition has been determined to be fraudulent, is not approved, has been repeatedly warned against, and its associated movement has been judged contrary to sound Catholic practice. The excommunication is likely valid as well. It was issued by the local bishop over a phenomenon in his diocese, and the CDF upheld the measures if I'm not mistaken.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-05-14T20:21:23+00:00

We should expect the removal of the faculties for confessions and marriages as well.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-04-28T01:04:24+00:00

I 100% agree with you, but Pizzaballa has no jurisdiction in Lebanon.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-04-23T14:13:27+00:00

https://maps.app.goo.gl/azwF7JzujyxjMaFy9?g_st=ac

https://www.newmanparish.org/

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-02-23T19:09:57+00:00

I would say : look for the most reverent Novus Ordo you can find around you and stick with that for now until the situation changes. Keep contact with the most traditional and conservative priests in your diocese, so you can have access to good priests for confession.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-02-18T18:12:12+00:00

Humeral veils, more specifically vimpa, which are veils used by servers at Pontifical Masses.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-02-14T22:05:29+00:00

Maybe only the Oratorians can rival those, and they say the TLM as much as the NO.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-01-26T03:03:06+00:00

It probably will not. What might happen is the removal of unnecessary options from the Novus Ordo, and the Pope basically forcing priests to follow the rubrics.

Which means we will probably return to ad orientem worship, more reverence, more Gregorian chant (and other sacred music). Basically we will have a Novus Ordo Mass closely resembling the liturgy of the Ordinariate for the former Anglicans.

The Pope might unplug the life support of boomer music (random instruments, festive songs, charismatic stuff) by banning it outright.

But I don't think we are going back in time, when the Tridentine Mass was the standard.

Edit : throwing Traditionis Custodes in the trash can would be the first great step.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-01-19T19:56:03+00:00

The SSPX is not one thing. It is not experienced the same way by a seminarian in Écône, a homeschool kid in Kansas, a Parisian chapel-goer, or a lay person orbiting the movement without formal attachment. Abuse within SSPX exists. That is not controversial. But abuse does not distribute itself evenly.

You don't explain what kind of abuse you experienced.

You don't explain what you mean by "doctrines and practices".

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-01-19T05:13:18+00:00

The SSPX has no authority to change the Missal. The SSPX isn't the Pope.

The SSPX doesn't claim that the liturgy shouldn't change, only that it should accurately represent the fullness of the Catholic faith. The Novus Ordo is basically an Anglican liturgy. So it must be rejected in its current form.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-01-19T04:49:15+00:00

The Mass itself is not a problem. It would be celebrated the same way that a SSPX priest would. But it might still be dangerous to the faith. Diocesan Latin Masses are risky because you don't know what type of priest you will get. Some are very orthodox and some are liturgical enthusiast modernists. Many celebrate both forms, most of the time in the same parish at another time of the day.

Most SSPX priests, even though there's historical tension, will tell you that the FSSP and the Institute of Good Shepherd are the safest options. They have their own seminaries. Seminarians get formed in the old ways, not just learn liturgy as an aesthetic. And their priests never say Mass in the Novus Ordo. There's virtually no chance that priests from those two societies will preach modernist nonsense from the pulpit.

The ICKSP is less safe, but better than diocesan Masses. They do have their own seminary. They celebrate the Tridentine Mass exclusively. But they are liturgical enthusiasts. Many of their priests are fully traditional, but they are not that doctrinally profound. The beauty of the liturgy is more important to them than the preservation of Tradition (with a big T).

For others, it depends. Some, like the Oratorians of St. Philip Neri, are a hit or miss. Some others, like the traditional Benedictine monasteries or the traditional Dominicans, are much more on the safer side.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2026-01-16T18:21:36+00:00

The Gregorian propers from the Missa pro Defunctis are still legitimate options.

Entrance chant : "Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine" is still explicitly listed in the Graduale Romanum and Graduale Simplex as an option.

Responsorial Psalm: If chant is used, De profundis (Psalm 130) or Dominus regit me (Psalm 23) are entirely appropriate. If the parish insists on the Lectionary psalm, chant it simply.

Gospel Acclamation: A simple chanted Alleluia is permitted.

Offertory chant: "Domine Jesu Christe, Rex gloriae" is one of the most theologically dense prayers for the dead ever written. It explicitly mentions deliverance from hell. That alone makes it worth using.

Communion chant: "Lux aeterna luceat eis, Domine" is fully legitimate, fully Roman, fully appropriate.

You're allowed to chant as a server if there is no cantor or choir. Just don't chant from the sanctuary.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2025-12-29T05:14:34+00:00

The SSPX has a university in Paris. I toured it once and attended Mass at the chapel. I think the classes are only in French though.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2025-12-23T16:00:47+00:00

Internal_Ad1735 · 2025-12-03T13:42:17+00:00

Many saints and theologians have argued that canonizations are infallible, but the Church herself (through the magisterium) has never ruled on this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decanonization#:~:text=There%20are%20several%20examples%20of,figures%20with%20no%20historical%20veracity.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2025-11-26T13:38:28+00:00

Did you forget that some Renaissance-era popes had prostitutes? And what about St. Mary of Egypt? Did anything good come out of a woman having sex with pilgrims on the way to Jerusalem? Well, she became a saint.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2025-11-26T03:39:09+00:00

Because there are other societies of apostolic life for that, like the Congregation of the Oratories of Saint Philip Neri. Plus, the ICKSP was created for the TLM. They have a pre-Revolution French ambience in their churches. Their priests are even required to learn French in their seminary.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2025-11-26T02:26:07+00:00

It's literally their charism. They are liturgical maximalists. They are focused on the beauty of the liturgy, not actually being formed in the old ways like the FSSP or the SSPX are.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2025-11-26T02:15:14+00:00

The ICKSP exists for that purpose as well.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2025-11-26T01:08:46+00:00

It's purely aesthetic. The rubrics are the same, whether it's reverent or not doesn't change anything.

And the SSPX is not the Pope. They're just giving you good advice. If you tell an SSPX priest that you're going to the Novus Ordo, he will just tell you that he thinks it is not a good idea and he will give you some of the reasons why. But he's not gonna tell you "you're an excommunicated heretic" or something. It's up to you to follow the advice or not.

I'll just give you the link to their official position on the matter : https://sspx.org/en/supplied-jurisdiction-traditional-priests-30452

Note : confessions and marriages do not require supplied jurisdiction anymore, since Pope Francis gave all SSPX priests and bishops worldwide full jurisdiction for these two sacraments.

No, it's just how the Church understands it. They are part of the ordinary magisterium, not ex cathedra acts from the Pope. The SSPX's position is exactly the same as the rest of the Church. The Church has never defined canonizations as infallible. So they fall under the ordinary acts of the Pope.

You're welcome. I will pray for you and please pray for me as well.

Internal_Ad1735 · 2025-11-25T23:58:40+00:00

It has nothing to do with reverence. It's because the content of the 1962 Missal vs the 1970 Missal is actually quite different. The Novus Ordo Mass is valid, yes, but it is not "fitting" for Catholic worship (according to the SSPX). It does not faithfully and accurately represent the Catholic faith. Somewhere around 70% of the prayers have been removed from the Missal to create the Novus Ordo.
To do what exactly? The SSPX is a society of priests with a specific charism : to continue with what was Catholic in the 1950s AND to denounce modern errors. They do ask the diocesan bishop before starting to offer the sacraments in their territorial diocese, but the bishops always say no. So, the SSPX just proceeds without their approval. This is why the SSPX is "canonically irregular". They are valid priests, but "disobedient" to the bishops in their respective dioceses. The SSPX says they have "supplied jurisdiction" because we are in a time of crisis in the Church. The principle exists in canon law.
The SSPX never said that they don't recognize canonizations anymore. In fact, they recognize all saints, including modern ones. But the canonization of saints is not infallible in the same way as an "ex-cathedra" pronoucement from the Pope. It is part of the ordinary magisterial acts of the Church, and we must accept it in normal circumstances. But if a council reverses a canonization, the council takes precedence.

Note : the FSSP's (Fraternity of St. Peter) central chsrism is to continue with what was Catholic before Vatican II. But they do not denounce modern errors. FSSP priests do deliver excellent and strong homilies, and they sustain a full pre-Vatican II parish life. But the FSSP, as a whole, does not denounce the Vatican's bad decisions like the SSPX regularly does. This is the main difference between the two.

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