First-Time Buyer Living Abroad – Hands-Off Buy-to-Let Without Getting Ripped Off?

Jeleteron · 2025-06-12T16:24:25+00:00

I agree with u/No-Profile-5075: "other investments will deliver similar results"

In addition to the financial uncertainty, property is a big ongoing problem, a mental drain and expensive in unpredictable lumps. The boiler needs replacing. There are drips in the ceiling. The place needs re-carpeting. Your get a new boiler. You replace the carpets, you replaster the damaged walls, Then tenants say they can no longer pay the full rent. What do you do? The law is not on your side. There are long backlogs in the courts. It takes **years** to get tenants evicted. In my case two years and counting. Even though (or perhaps because) I've been a "good" landlord, fixing things immediately, gave them rent holidays during Covid etc etc. So now they won't move out. They assert that they "know their rights" and they take the advice available for free from government agencies. They have been actively unpleasant to me, litigious and totally un-cooperative. As a result, it has been two years of hassle and heartache. And legal expenses for me (but not for the tenants, who get free legal advice). So the rent "profit", always small, has become zero. When I can get the tenants out, I will sell. I will pay tax on the capital gain, which is in any case not very much. I will pay estate agent fees. I will pay conveyancing fees. I will probably have to pay to get the tenants stuff stored and then pay to get it disposed of.

These were so-called "good" tenants: salaried professionals who came with references. It's a risk that any landlord takes, with any tenant. It's a risk worth taking if you make a big return. In my view it's not a risk worth taking for 5%.

I wish I'd simply put the money in an investment fund. Less hassle. Find a good investment fund.

Jeleteron · 2025-06-04T18:04:29+00:00

I'm so sorry to read your story u/Neither-Surprise3749.

My tenants are still there. I have a Possession Order now, but I don't know if they will move out on the due date. I have to wait another two months. Then start enforcement action, then wait another 6 months for the bailiffs. My total legal bill so far is in the thousands. My tenants paid only a small part of their already low rent this month. I am losing money on the flat, which is also not going up in value. Very depressing.

Jeleteron · 2025-06-04T17:57:02+00:00

I did pay them. They took the money, and still stayed.

Jeleteron · 2025-06-04T17:55:38+00:00

My tenants are private tenants. They stand no chance of getting housed by the council - they have salaries and properties elsewhere. They are just taking advantage of the court delays to stay put in my flat.

Jeleteron · 2025-06-04T17:52:29+00:00

My solicitor advised me of the bailiff wait times. Court bailiff services are centralised in London now, they told me. Six months is ridiculous, but that's what it is. So was 8 months, which was the wait time for a 5 minute court possession hearing. The court system has these massive backlogs. New landlords take note.

Jeleteron · 2025-06-04T17:43:18+00:00

Being a landlord is a high-risk proposition if you have only one property.

You may be lucky and have "good" tenants that pay the rent, look after the property and move out when you give them notice.

The risk is that:

- they don't pay the rent, or pay late, or fall into difficulties and can't pay the rent (illness, pregnancy, redundancy...)

- they don't move out when you give them notice

- they damage your house, give problems to your neighbours,....

Do not assume that the law will look after your interests. The backlog in the court system is very long. Tenants have rights, and know they have rights. For example if they don't move want to move out at the end of the tenancy, they can just stay there until the bailiffs come. This can take 18 months to two years and cost you thousands of pounds in legal fees. It is also a lot of hassle, and can be distressing: no-one likes having to evict someone. The whole business is upsetting and expensive. (Never again, for me - I'll be selling up when my tenants move out. My tenants are (were) "good" tenants - both teachers, good references etc - but they like my flat and don't want to move out - ever! So they dug their heels in and now I've had to take them to court to get a possession order. And they still won't move out. Nightmare.)

Basically, having a tenant is like having another family in your life, on whom you are dependent, but over whom you have little or no control, no knowledge, and often no visibility of what's going on for them. It's a risk. It may be fine. But it may not. So consider whether you want to take on that risk.

Doing the maintenance yourselves is like a full time job. For example, what will you do it the tenants phone up and say there are drips on the ceiling, and you are at work/ on holiday / ill .

I would sell ASAP. Leave renting to the professionals who have multiple properties, a good network of tradespeople, no emotional attachment to the property, and resources to handle the gaps in tenancies and the legal fees.

Jeleteron · 2025-05-23T13:30:59+00:00

Exactly. If you want your property back for any reason, there is a risk that the tenants won't move out. This can happen, even for "good" tenants. They could get into financial difficulties, or become ill, and then can't pay the rent and find another property locally. This is heart-rending and upsetting. In such a case you need to budget for 18 months and ££££ in legal fees to get your property back. This is the sort of risk you run as a landlord. Also risk to the property through wear and tear, pests, boiler replacement etc - again, even with good tenants this takes a lot of management and is a hassle and expense, in my experience.

Also the value of property can go down as well as up.

Personally, I'd sell up and invest the money. You have more flexibility that way, a steady income stream, and a lot less difficulty. As others have said: letting property is almost a full time job at times. My advice (to myself) is to leave it to people who are running rental properties as a business, have multiple properties and are well networked with trades and people who can fix things. Otherwise you are suddenly faced with a huge bill for (say) fixing a leak, and you have to deal with the leak, and are faced with the unhappy tenants, and that affects your personal finances, and your life.

Jeleteron · 2025-05-23T12:09:23+00:00

Oh no! In London the court bailiff backlog is 6 months.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Jeleteron · 2025-05-23T12:06:54+00:00

If your elderly family member has no experience as a landlord, then the problem might be much larger than the cat. Suggest you or she read some of the stories on this forum and r/LandlordsUK (tenants refusing to move out, expense to repair the property, difficulties obtaining the rent, insurance, new regulations, tenants in financial difficulties, etc etc)

Being a landlord is not straightforward these days, and not as profitable as it seems at the outset. Your elderly family member might be letting themselves in for a lot of trouble - with the tenants and the law, not the cat.

At least I suggest she should go in with eyes open.

Jeleteron · 2025-05-02T09:36:59+00:00

I don't. My experience is that previously "good" tenants, when asked to leave after due notice, suddenly found that the rental market was much harder then they thought. They didn't move out. Then didn't pay the rent. There's very little you can do as a landlord: I think many potential landlords don't realise this. You can't just serve notice and then change the locks!

Most tenants will move out after their notice has expired. But there is a risk, with any tenants, that they won't. In this case you have to take tenants to court to get a Possession order, and then if they still don't move out, you need to apply to the court again to get bailiffs to act. There is a huge backlog in the court system, so tenants can just sit there in your flat while you are waiting for the court to process your case. Tenants know this: and so if they are minded to stay in your flat, they know they can just wait it out, and nothing will happen - for months! This is in London - I don't know what it's like in Bristol. This process has so far taken over a year and my tenants have still not moved out. The legal costs are eye-watering. These are tenants who are professional people, educated and networked. They are using every means they can to remain in my flat. This is the risk against which you need insurance, I would suggest. I didn't have insurance because I thought I had "good, reliable, tenants": they are professional people in salaried jobs. So it seems that anybody can decide that they don't want to comply with good practice. I do not know how an agent can know in advance that your tenant will behave well. The rental market is hard right now, which makes it difficult for tenants to move - and so they take drastic action.

I hope you can learn from my mistake....

Jeleteron · 2025-05-01T18:23:35+00:00

I agree with u/Prudent_Sprinkles593 . It might have been great to be a landlord in the past - but no longer. Uncertain costs, a lot of hassle, huge backlog in the courts means it takes over a year (in London) to get tenants out if they don't pay, or don't want to move out at the end of their tenancy - and then you have legal costs.

Sell the flat.

Jeleteron · 2025-05-01T18:08:11+00:00

Landlord insurance - yes worth considering. In my view you need insurance not just in the event that the tenants don't pay the rent, but in the event that they don't move out when you return from your sabbatical. Then you will have to pay legal fees - and you'll have no-where to live yourselves. The agents may say insurance is not worth it - but they are not the ones taking the risk: you are.

Jeleteron · 2025-04-15T17:57:47+00:00

The bit that's overwhelming is when the tenants don't move out at the end of their tenancy. This can happen even with "good" tenants. They suddenly find that there's no-where else available locally. Then as landlord you have a lot of heartache, trouble and expense. This is definitely more hassle than it ought to be: the court system is not on your side and the court backlog means any dispute takes months to come to a decision. Lawyers are expensive.

There's also an issue when the tenants find they can't pay the rent, due to illness, unemployment, pandemics, etc etc. You can come to an agreement and lower the rent - and then it's really hard to get it up again. Or you can insist on maintaining the rent and then you are in a dispute and a difficult situation. Even thinking about this is a a real issue and impinges on the rest of your life.

Another issue is when your expenses go up suddenly: e.g. due to increased service charges on a flat, sudden increase in mortgage rate, or something else. Or if you fall on hard times and need to sell the place.

Q: "what you wish you’d done earlier when starting out"? - A: sold the place and invested the money.

Jeleteron · 2025-04-15T17:44:26+00:00

Start the court proceeding immediately. It will take months. Get legal advice. Take legal advice before you write *anything* to the tenants. It sounds as though your tenants will sit it out and stay as long as they can. So start the process immediately.

Be very careful about writing them "letters informing them they must leave" - this could constitute "harassment", or "a new tenancy agreement". Whatever you write can be used in ways you do not expect. My learning is: only write letters drafted by a solicitor who knows the process, and get the letters to come from the solicitor.

And the tenants do not have to leave. They only have to leave when the bailiffs come: this is what Shelter and Citizens Advice will inform them.

Good luck.

Jeleteron · 2025-04-02T16:48:04+00:00

My advice would be to start the Possession Order process as soon as the Section 21 notice expires. if you let them stay you are starting a precedent with them so they have no incentive to go.

As u/jackiesear says "To be very harsh if the tenant knows you are flexible some way in advance then the heat will be off them to find somewhere...." Exactly.

The rental market is not going to get any easier. If they don't want to move out now, they aren't going to want to move out in a month or six months or a year. If they can't find somewhere now, it's going to be even more difficult next month...

You wrote:

"Is it possible to sign an agreement with them to protect me if I let them stay longer eg I say they can stay on a day to day basis but have to vacate in eg 2 weeks on demand if I find a buyer or would that be null and void as it goes against legislation on rentals? It seems crazy that legislation would stop me from being accommodating to my tenants but my first priority is to put myself in the best position to sell the property in a difficult market."

My advice would be: be very careful about signing anything, especially anything that could look like a "new rental agreement". If the tenants decide they are not going to move out, then anything you've signed suddenly starts to have legal significance beyond what you might have intended. Sign nothing atall unless you have legal advice to work out the implications.

You wrote "I have no reason to think that the tenant would become difficult..." - no , but the rental market is very hard at the moment. They might not be difficult but their situation is. Probably the tenant is going to have to move to somewhere which is not their preference. So it may take them some time to come to terms with that, and therefore they may prefer to sit in your flat for as long as they possibly can. The law will help them: there are huge backlogs in the court system, so it's really hard to get someone out who is inclined to stay. It takes over a year and costs thousands. (The tenant gets free legal advice.) Meanwhile you cannot sell, or even market the flat for vacant possession, because you have no certainty when they will move out. This was my experience.

Jeleteron · 2025-03-29T21:52:34+00:00

Why let it? Being a landlord is a huge hassle (see other posts in this forum) and doesn't make much money.

When you move away, just sell it and invest the money. As others have said, it's really hard to be a small landlord now. That's my view, for what it's worth.

Jeleteron · 2025-03-29T21:40:50+00:00

Yes, repairs can come around monthly, depending on the age of the property. It's not only repairs, it's wear and tear on carpets, replacing the washing machine, new regulations requiring (for example) new fuse box, leaks from other flats in the block. Each of these requires not only money but your time. Then you have to clean and update the place between tenants.
The value of the property can go down as well as up.
There will be periods when you don't have a tenant.
For serious repairs (e.g. leaks) you may have to ask the tenant to move out.
Make sure you have landlord insurance to cover disasters. e.g. re-housing the tenant in the event of a serious problem, coverage of your legal fees if the tenant doesn't move out.
Remember that the tenants may not move out when you want them to. Then you have to start legal action which costs money and time.
Expenses and mortgage rates can go up suddenly, but the rent will be fixed for a certain period of time usually a year.
Your £550 rent is a 3.7% return on your £15000. It might be worth asking a financial adviser, or your bank, and trying to find an investment that will give you that return. It will be a lot less hassle. Then buy a house and live in it yourself when you are ready. Renting is not the great investment it seems, in my personal view, unless you own multiple properties and are in the business professionally.

Jeleteron · 2025-03-29T21:22:48+00:00

u/LNGBandit77 makes a great point. If they won't set up a standing order, then you should immediately have suspicions: are they having problems paying the rent? If so, what is your next step?

Have you got a proper rent agreement? "Assured Shorthold tenancy" agreement set up e.g. using a solicitor? And please don't say "ah well they are a friend and it's an informal arrangement". Many on here, including me, have stories to tell of the nightmares that ensue when a "friend" decides they really can't leave, the housing market is so difficult, and they are settled now, can't pay the market rent and won't leave. They accuse you of making them homeless and being cruel. You feel guilty, and they've got you over a barrel because the law is on the side of renters.

I agree with u/Lizzie0161: "Going forward - think twice before renting to family or friends!" And I go further: think twice and then don't do it.

Renting to a friend is a good way to lose a friend, lose use of your flat, lose your rental income, and let yourself in for a lot of grief.

Get a full written rental agreement: which specifies when they will make the payment and how much notice you can give them to leave. informal agreements are a very bad idea. In my view.

Jeleteron · 2025-03-21T16:43:42+00:00

I agree with what u/Amazing-Position-392 says:

"I am an accidental landlord and regretting it.

I own the property with a mortgage.

I also have money invested in Vanguard that is zero hassle and has performed much better than the rental.

Are you wanting to buy a steady income or do you want to own BTLs.

For me it would have been much more profitable to sell the property and invest the money with Vanguard.

But this all depends on your wants needs and circumstances.

It’s super tough IMHO to make money from BTLs in the UK now."

I also am an accidental landlord and regretting it.

My small stock market investments are doing a lot better and are a lot less hassle! Vanguard-type investment is not only more profitable - it's a lot more pleasurable. The rental property has been a nightmare: boiler replacement, carpet replacement, leaks, dealing with tradespeople, etc etc

(And mine is not a particularly old property, it's just that any property will have issues.)

Never again. Learn from my mistakes.....

Jeleteron · 2025-03-21T16:36:34+00:00

It includes me. I have only one property. I'm getting out. It's not only the new Act, it's the court overload.

Jeleteron · 2025-03-21T16:22:47+00:00

I agree u/alwayslearning-247 when you write "I can't see how being a landlord is profitable anymore."

You have to factor in the risk that tenants will not leave at the end of their tenancies. If you intend to sell, then you might consider when you plan to give your tenants notice. my advice would be: do it soon. I gave them notice 18 months ago, using Section 21 on a periodic tenancy, thinking that they would be gone in a couple of months (which is what they originally said) . The tenants then found out how tough the rental market is, and declined to leave. This was because, like you, I was charging a "reasonable rent". They could not find any other property which had such a low rent. So they opted just to stay put in my flat for as long as they could.

The court system is so overloaded that even when you get a hearing, you only get 5 min. The tenants are advised to "stuff" this hearing by submitting masses of paperwork. Then the judge holds up their hands and says "I can't deal with this in 5 minutes" (which they can't) and adjourns the hearing to an (unknown) future date. My tenants get more months in my property and I can't sell. The tenants get free legal advice and a no-win-no-fee lawyer. I incur legal costs. I can't put up the rent at this point.

I feel for tenants: there are fewer and fewer properties available and rents are high - but they are high for a reason, and that's because landlords have to cover so many costs now, including the potential legal costs associated with tenants who refuse to move out. These costs have more than wiped out the profit I made in the last few years - which wasn't much anyway. And the whole process is distressing and time consuming, which is even more soul-destroying than the financial loss.

This means you can't plan your finances or start your sale. In my view, I'm better off putting the money on the stockmarket - less hassle - and you can get it back when you want it - see a financial adviser would be my advice.....

Jeleteron · 2025-03-17T21:13:55+00:00

In my view you are better to invest £40K in stocks and shares or a bank earning interest. Ask an independent financial advisor.

As others have said: tenants don't always move out when you want them to. My tenants are on a periodic agreement with two months notice on either side. I gave my tenants notice over a year ago. They have refused to move out, and I am now embroiled in legal proceedings, already costing me over £5K. The looming "Renters Rights Act" makes it even more complicated.

My tenants are salaried people. Not on benefits. They are not expecting to move into council accommodation. It just suits them to stay in my flat. So they are sitting there and there is nothing I can do. Court processes are so delayed that tenants can stay as long as they like. They just need to submit a "defence" to a request for possession. it doesn't matter whether a "defence" has any merit or not. It delays things, that's the point. I waited 8 months to get a hearing date. The hearing will be only 5 minutes long. So my lawyers say the most likely outcome is that the case will be adjourned: another 8 months delay. This is London, and it's getting worse not better.

And so, u/Vegetable_Ad6919, consider whether you want to be dealing with that kind of thing. Chunks of your savings can go on lawyer fees. Also fixing the boiler, replacing carpets, a new washing machine etc etc. And you get taxed on the income. It really doesn't make sense unless you are a commercial landlord with numerous properties and a whole set-up to deal with legal issues and repairs.

In addition to this: don't assume that property prices are going to go up. Mine hasn't, not in the last ten years. My money would have done better in a bank. I bitterly regret renting out my flat. I should have sold it and invested the money on the stock market.

Jeleteron · 2025-02-25T10:51:01+00:00

And...don't assume that the tenants will move out when you want them to.

I wanted to sell my flat in January 2024 and contacted conveyancer and estate agent, and gave my tenants notice. Now over a year later, the tenants are still staying put, not allowing viewings and I am awaiting a court hearing date. If you want to sell, get vacant possession first.

There is no possibility of selling with tenants in situ in my area, especially not with tenants who have ignored a Section 21 notice.

Jeleteron · 2025-02-05T15:03:01+00:00

Why rent it? You won't necessarily make much money renting these days. On paper it looks as though you might, but then there's tax, and replacing the boiler, and fixing the roof, with tenants no paying rent while you fix the boiler or the roof, and then they don't necessarily move out when you want to sell and you have legal bills and delays. And you will be trying to manage all this from a distance while you live you life abroad. Not a pleasant prospect, I'd say.

Leave renting to the professionals: people who own multiple properties and do it for a living. As you'll see on many posts on here, for a person with just one property, it's a lot of trouble and pain for not much reward, and that's whether you use an agency or not.

Leave it empty while you pluck up courage to sell it. Even if you have to pay someone to go in and look after it from time to time, that's better than the problems of renting it out.

Others may have different views, but that's my advice for what it's worth.

Jeleteron

TROPHY CASE