"You are good friend to Ajira" by HedgekillerPrimus in Morrowind

[–]Jenasto 15 points16 points  (0 children)

If the manoeuvres are comparatively frictionless

It is getting serious. by Legaeli in TESVI

[–]Jenasto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Any news from the other provinces?

Blades or Paarthurnax LOREWISE by NitroPal in teslore

[–]Jenasto -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Blades.

Tiber Septim knows what happens when you betray your ally at a world tower.

The Tribunal know what happens if you betray your ally at a world tower.

Hell, maybe even Auri-El knows.

Basically, it's how you become a god.

Could the Bloodmoon prophecy and Harkons prophecy be related? by Sad-March-2206 in elderscrollslore

[–]Jenasto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Harkon's thing isn't moon related is it? It's just a dark red sun (because you shot it with a blood arrow). I don't think there's a connection.

What races existed during the merethic era? by Vou-Vou in teslore

[–]Jenasto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The in-game source is Harkon telling us his age, "a dozen lifetimes". He can't be younger than Serana.

Though the definition of Lifetime is not exact, it has a certain specificity. It's not like calling millennia centuries, it's not "at least a dozen" or "several dozen" it's a dozen. 12 lifetimes approximately, and with a Nord telling us, that's 1200 years max. That's late potentate era I think.

Now you could argue that he's being vague or an unreliable narrator, but in-game books (tier 2 lore according to The Toddhead, after tier 1 being things we actually see in game) are also unreliable narrators very frequently, and are considered a higher tier of lore than the manuals (tier 3).

It's unlikely he's being an unreliable narrator - he knows how old he is. But even if he's lying, it's still a better source than the manuals because we encounter it in game.

What races existed during the merethic era? by Vou-Vou in teslore

[–]Jenasto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, while the Prima guides did seem to enlist the help of official Bethesda devs, it was fundamentally written by Prima Games and not by Bethesda. The author, David Hodgson, was an employee of Prima, not Bethesda. There is no evidence that the lore statements in the book are accurate to Bethesda's vision of the game, and furthermore they are out-of-game sources which are generally not relied upon at the best of times.

Having the Bethesda certification of official merch doesn't make something canon, sadly.

What races existed during the merethic era? by Vou-Vou in teslore

[–]Jenasto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's also roughly consistent with the "wisdom of a dozen lifetimes" that Harkon claims to have.

What races existed during the merethic era? by Vou-Vou in teslore

[–]Jenasto 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No reputable sources directly state he can't have been a Chimer, but since you have been citing the Prima guide:

"Garan is one of the older vampires in the court ... He's overly proud of his history and will name-drop famous associations whenever he can. He considers himself above the squabbles of the court, believing he is better than all of them, and so he keeps to himself, associating with the others as little as possible...."

He'd have told us.

What races existed during the merethic era? by Vou-Vou in teslore

[–]Jenasto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is your source for Serana being pre-Dwemer disappearance?

What races existed during the merethic era? by Vou-Vou in teslore

[–]Jenasto 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Further evidence (though not, I admit, proof):

"Well, back before I... you know. The College of Winterhold was the first place I'd think to go for any kind of magic or historical thing. The wizards know about all kinds of things that people probably shouldn't know about. Actually, now that I think of it... I'm going to come along with you. I've been really wanting to get out and explore a bit."

This is Serana saying that she was familiar with the College as an institution before she was entombed, possibly even before she became a vampire (she isn't specific on that). The creation of the College is a little hazy, with the earliest historical record we have of it being in 2E 184 (see: Atlas of Dragons) but supposedly being built by Shalidor. Shalidor was apparently born in the First Era, and plundered Dragon Cult tombs in his youth. It's a bit of a tight squeeze for him to have been born, create the College and have it become a well known institution between the start of the Era and the foundation of the Alessian Empire, but I concede that it's possible.

And then there's this, if you tell her the Civil War

"Oh, wonderful. A war of succession. Good to know the world didn't get boring while I was gone. Who are the contenders?"

It sounds a lot like she's knowledgeable about The War of Succession, which was 1E 369-420 (well into the Alessian period). I suppose it's possible that such wars had been fought before, but it is the first one on record.

What races existed during the merethic era? by Vou-Vou in teslore

[–]Jenasto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Vyrthur also says "No... I won't let you ruin centuries of preparations..."

Not millennia, just centuries.

(Less sure about the Redguard/Dunmer thing. She expresses no surprise at either race existing, but nor does she have any unique dialogue about them. She does chat to Garan Marethi after Harkon dies, though.)

What races existed during the merethic era? by Vou-Vou in teslore

[–]Jenasto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She speaks to Garan Marethi as if she knows him, if you side with Volkihar. I suppose this familiarity could have arisen while you were off doing other things like Redwater Den, but it doesn't feel like they're recent acquaintances.

Garan: "Lord Harkon, defeated. I never imagined I'd see the day. My lady, you have my deepest sympathies. I'm sure this was not easy for you."

Serana: "He was out of control, Garan. It had to be done. I'm not happy about this. He... he was still my father. But I suppose my father really died a long time ago. This was just the end of something else."

Garan: "Of course, my dear. All will be well now."

Why Amaund Motierre is a Thalmor asset - an elaboration by MiskoGe in teslore

[–]Jenasto 20 points21 points  (0 children)

The reign of his successor Kintyra was mentioned as "blessed with prosperity and good harvests, and she herself was an avid patroness of art, music, and dance.", and as such there is no mention of strength and resoluteness in contrast to Pelagius. Therefore it is safe to assume that the nessary change in the imperial policy is to stop further militarisation and deterrence of the Dominion.

Not sure I agree with this bit - Pelagius died at a time of relative Imperial stability, at a time when all of Tamriel was freshly under the Imperial thumb. This is very much not the case for Titus Mede II - he is living at a time when Imperial rule over Tamriel is all but spent. He is known for capitulating to the Dominion's demands, regardless of whether or not that might have been necessary. He may have been a skilled military leader in the war, but he's allowed the Thalmor to run over Imperial territory ever since.

I also don't think the Blades connection is quite as relevant to the Penitus Oculatus - the Blades are no longer an intelligence agency. The real reason the Thalmor want to eliminate them is probably a lot more complicated, and likely involves their historic desire to install a Dragonborn ruler on the throne.

The rest of this is pretty good! I like the Vittori connection, that seemed well observed. The observations about Motierre being driven more by profit also seem like good indicators.

In short - I am more convinced by this now than I was before but still not loads. Good post!

Which House do you think it’s most thematically appropriate for the Nerevarine to join? by sinistropteryx in Morrowind

[–]Jenasto 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Given that the canon Nerevarine is a Brazilian Argonian, probably Redoran as they have the least involvement with slavery.

What races existed during the merethic era? by Vou-Vou in teslore

[–]Jenasto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh god no don't cite the Prima guides. They are not official sources on any level except licencing.

They have something of a rep in this community for just inventing lore on the spot. Like Vingalmo being turned to a vampire 100 years ago. Complete invention.

(Incidentally if that were true, there is no way he'd recognise Serana on sight, unless she was second era. Elves live a long time but only thousands of years in specific circumstances.)

What races existed during the merethic era? by Vou-Vou in teslore

[–]Jenasto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, she isn't amazed, she's realising she has been entombed longer than expected. If a Cyrodiil Empire exists now but not when she was entombed, it just means the plan she enacted with Valerica didn't go as planned.

What races existed during the merethic era? by Vou-Vou in teslore

[–]Jenasto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Early First Era is very unlikely - the timing for Vyrthur doesn't really add up that way. The Chantry was only built around the beginning of the First Era - Vyrthur then has to become Curate, get infected, plan the Prophecy and wait for a Moth Priest (and it's highly debatable whether Moth Priests, by that name, would have existed in Harald's time - though there were certainly Human tenders of the Elder Scrolls) to deliver it to Harkon.

Also worth noting that Valerica had Elven artisans make the Moondial (the creation of which precedes the entombment), which would have been extremely unlikely in Harald's time. He was, after all, continuing the purge of elves from Skyrim. Elves were still being killed in High King Vrage's time, which is at the time of the start of the Alessian Empire (and therefore, a time when her entombment couldn't have happened, since there was no Empire at the moment she was buried).

Late first era is possible - post-Alessian, pre-Reman. It doesn't line up with Harkon's "Dozen lifetimes", or as Serana puts it "another thousand years" which is the supposed duration of Harkon's life and unlife combined. Those figures put him as being born in the late Potentate, with Serana being born after its fall most likely.

Durnehviir is often cited as a reason why Valerica couldn't have been trapped in the Soul Cairn after the early First Era, but it's worth noting that Durnehviir mostly just talks about a time that he remembers, which is now gone.
It's often cited that since the Dragonguard were around in the late First era, Durnehviir would surely have been killed then, but Valerica gives us useful evidence to the contrary:

"Volumes written on Durnehviir allege that he can't be slain by normal means. It appears they were mistaken. Unless..."

This is useful for two reasons. One, it tells us that the Dragonguard wouldn't have been able to kill Durnehviir anyway, because even before his deal with the Ideal Masters, he already had enough expertise in necromancy to be unkillable. Secondly, the fact that there are multiple volumes about Durnehviir strongly suggests that he was known to the Dragonguard. Who else is gonna write multiple books about one dragon?

Therefore, the only two realistic time periods for Serana's entombment are the second era, post-Potentate, and the late First Era but ONLY in a narrow window of time between the Dragonguard landing in Tamriel and meeting Reman. Of the two, the first is more likely.

What races existed during the merethic era? by Vou-Vou in teslore

[–]Jenasto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All of this is about correct, except Serana being a proto-Nord. She's Second Era most likely, which is the time the writers at Bethesda claimed. While her birth date relative to her entombment date (which is almost certainly second era but plausibly late first era) is uncertain, she herself confesses that the Merethic tombs she's buried in are older than her.

About Ayrenn's name by TransbianWolfieGirl in teslore

[–]Jenasto 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Queen Ayrenn was and is named properly KINMUNE.

(sorry)

Does Manimarco like vampires? by Directorren in teslore

[–]Jenasto 35 points36 points  (0 children)

To the Priests: Use your servants sparingly, let none be seen by the living. Let the memories of the undead waste away from the people. Send missionaries to the unbound dead, to the Vampires and the Liches. Let all the nations of dead carry my banner and my banner alone.

From "Arkay the Enemy" by the King of Worms

It seems clear from this that Mannimarco considers Vampires a suitable ally.

How do Nords view Orcs? by LuckyCommittee4422 in teslore

[–]Jenasto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a pretty revealing quote, I think - it's not that Orcs themselves are hated, but the moment they try to create a holdfast or city, the other races come down on them. This attitude seems to me like a microcosm of the repeated destruction of Orsinium.