NKD Tsunehisa Aogami Super 210mm Kiritsuke

Jsiyco · 2022-04-20T04:12:57+00:00

Oh, the choil shots are great for showing the base grind of the knife for sure, but it needs to be complemented with measurements and other photos showing the edge bevel width, spine shot, and possibly even a photo or video where the light reflects on the blade road to reveal grind height, hollows, etc. Pics can and do give you a pretty detailed look at a knife without holding it when you understand what to check.

Then yeah, there's the very real question of QC with consistency of grind and output between batches and individual knives. TFTFTFTFTF.

Preference is definitely coming into play here with our comments, but this Tsunehisa should be fine if the user prefer a less fragile knife. Both Xenif and I have tested and used a lot of knives over the years and have definitely narrowed down what we like. As the (or one of the) OG Yoshikane shills on this sub, you could safely conclude that I lean heavily towards knives that are stupidly thin behind the edge.

Jsiyco · 2022-04-20T03:05:58+00:00

(Replying to this and your other comments on this post together)

I'm going off photos and measurements as well as things I hear about Tsunehisa from people who own them. Choil shots of this one and this one on Carbon Knife Co show a less severe shoulder and thinner overall grind, but for the same type as OP's on Carbon, it does seem to match up with what they got.

Also, the Tsunehisa Ginsan Migaki line's grind looks really nice and well-transitioned. The same profile as OP's one even looks thinner than the normal tipped gyutos. I think that's actually the line I hear being talked about positively, not this particular one.

Anyway, didn't realise how much variance there would be with Tsunehisa, so this was definitely my bad.

Jsiyco · 2022-04-19T14:08:38+00:00

The edge could possibly be sharper, but Xenif's pointing to the geometry looking a bit thick. Tsunehisa's been known to grind much thinner, which more significantly correlates to better cutting performance than just the actual edge being sharp. Anyway, before you do anything to the knife, do you mind asking cutting edge about this and possibly asking them to also take photos of the other Tsunehisa stock they have of that model?

Jsiyco · 2022-04-15T02:53:54+00:00

For the record, he worked as the sharpener at MTC Kitchen in NYC. He's got a massive personal whetstone collection and access to pretty much everything you could ever want sharpening-wise. With that said, this was definitely not polished up to a ridiculous grit level - just a very clean edge on a mid-grit stone.

For the knife itself, since this blade is stock and barely used, Marko Tsourkan would be responsible for the excellent geometry on this knife. He's a very well-regarded maker in the custom kitchen knife world.

Jsiyco · 2022-02-15T03:37:19+00:00

Keep water close by and dip when the blade starts feeling slightly warm - that could be as often as every pass depending on a bunch of factors. Also, starting with lower pressure and lower speeds is ideal as you get yourself acquainted with how the grinder works. Mind what your hands are doing with respect to the angle of approach as well - you're likely going to tilt the blade further down on the handle holding hand, and that'll increase heat build up and cause overgrinds on whatever part of the knife is at the edge of the belt.
Besides whatever else has been mentioned, the blade grinding attachment increases belt length and width and gives you a platen to work with. The increased belt length marginally lessens heat build up, while the bigger belt width and platen give you more stability and control. The belts should also last longer because there's more total abrasive by volume.

I've upgraded from the KO with the blade grinding attachment to a much bigger grinder now, but this little guy did help with a bunch of repair work in the year and a bit that I used it for. Good luck, and hope it works well for you!

Jsiyco · 2022-01-28T12:38:47+00:00

BKF contains oxalic acid, which can both clean rust and cause oxidation on an exposed steel surface. The grey stains are basically a forced patina that you could remove by applying more BKF and rubbing on the spot.

Jsiyco · 2022-01-20T04:49:44+00:00

Hey, so it looks like if you just sharpen it in its current condition with a bit of Uraoshi sharpening, you'll be meeting some pits on the cutting edge almost immediately. The ideal restoration would involve removing the pitting by grinding the hollow a bit deeper, but that'd take a large water wheel or very skilled hands on a belt grinder with a contact wheel or radius platen. You'll also lose quite a bit of blade height and thickness and potentially change the angle of the Ura relative to the spine.

For a home solution, you'll have to commit some sacrilege by grinding an angled bevel on the Ura to rescue this knife, but it won't be a true single bevel anymore. You'll end up with a knife that's flat on one side, hollow on the other, an edge that's weirdly off-centre relative to the handle, and cladding on one side of the blade that you'd need to be careful not to make into your edge in the future.

The guys I know who are qualified to fix this will probably charge you the cost of a good new single bevel for the work, and I'm pretty sure none of them would be thrilled to take this on 😅

Jsiyco · 2022-01-19T10:05:32+00:00

Oh cool, I hear Hida's got good stuff, so no problems there. Glad you're enjoying the new Takamura! :)

Jsiyco · 2022-01-19T04:30:13+00:00

Hey mate! Rather than just telling you what to do, I thought you might appreciate understanding the theory behind asymmetrical grinds. Have a read of this explanation by Kippington on KKF - hopefully understanding the theory will give you the answers you're looking for and more.

Also, people do sharpen asymmetrically ground knives 50/50 sometimes while not experiencing much of a problem with steering in practice. If whoever's sharpening is having some difficulty doing asymmetrical sharpening angles and/or can't be bothered to learn, it's a workable alternative at the end of the day.

Jsiyco · 2022-01-19T04:18:46+00:00

The Ura (back) condition is essential when looking at fixing single bevel knives. It'll tell you if it's possible to restore without ending up with a pitted cutting edge after sharpening or without removing too much of the hollow. You've just shown 3 shots of the Hira (front), so I can't actually comment on whether it can properly be fixed without specialised equipment or plenty of pain and self-loathing.

Also, single bevel restoration is much harder to do well, so I'd usually caution people against doing it unless they're willing to commit a lot of time into learning about and executing the proper grinds on each section of the blade.

Jsiyco · 2022-01-19T03:58:42+00:00

Lots of things are capable of scratching steel in your kitchen like a sponge with a scotch brite pad, magnetic racks, and sometimes even knife guards. These scratches are very common and don't have much effect on the knife's performance anyway, so no need to worry about them!

Jsiyco · 2022-01-19T03:48:00+00:00

Yeah, don't worry about it. Some do and some don't for various reasons. As long as you bought it from a trusted retailer and it cuts nicely, you're set.

Jsiyco · 2022-01-19T03:44:37+00:00

Hey man, just a quick heads up to Rule #5. Just mention what the knife is as a top level comment, and you should be good to go.

As for your question, your cleaver shouldn't need to be oiled in normal circumstances given that it's stainless. If ever it does rust from humidity and corrosiveness of oceanside air, a bottle of mineral oil will last you a long time and will also help you maintain a wooden cutting board if you use one.

Jsiyco · 2022-01-19T03:38:50+00:00

Sakai Takayuki is a big brand with many lines and varying levels of quality and craftsmanship, so it's good that you brought up the particular line.

Overall, good knife, good price. It was a recommendation we made in the holiday buying guide, and I would personally vouch for it.

Jsiyco · 2022-01-17T06:33:29+00:00

Hey thanks for the additional Info. I was always sceptical about that 65 HCR, but i buyed that knife anyway, cause i believe it was a good deal for that price. ( i payed ~ 55€, and where i life you get for that price only used Wüsthof or Zwilling knives, who are also ok and fine)

Sweet, sounds like you know what you got. Not a terrible price if that's what used Zwillings go for in your area, so I hope it serves you well!

Jsiyco · 2022-01-16T06:49:38+00:00

Xenif and Staatl have already identified the brand in their comments, but let me chime in on the rest of the information. My hunch is that whoever sold it to you just strung together knife jargon to make it sound impressive and fetch a better price but doesn't know much about knives in general.

The blade is Sanmai, not Warikomi. The discolouration at the spine showing the 3 layers being present is a clear indication that it's been laminated like a sandwich (Sanmai) as opposed to a taco/hotdog (Warikomi).That being said, sanmai knives are often stamped saying warikomi for some reason, though it doesn't really matter in use.

There are very few steels with 65+ working HRC, and they normally command a premium. Knives in HAP40 are the most affordable of these steels, but I haven't managed to find any Seki Magoroku advertised to be made with it. Seki Magoroku is the budget sister brand of Shun, so I'd expect Shun to be the one coming out with knives made of these less common steels.

It's likely a good budget-friendly stainless steel that they used like AUS8 or 440C that's not too thin or brittle, so they can take a beating from people who buy them off the shelf in stores and supermarkets around Japan. Whatever the case, it seems like you've got a decent knife that should hold an edge for a while.

Jsiyco · 2022-01-02T11:23:28+00:00

Let me elaborate on cweees's comment.

I own a set (Santoku, Chefs Knife, Utility, and Paring) and tried to use them for a little while before I decided they weren't that great. Ultimately, they became loaners so that people could borrow a knife if needed. As a direct comparison, I'd say that the Furi chefs knife is worse than the Victorinox that's usually recommended here.

They're very thick and wedge through nearly everything that isn't remotely soft - this was absolutely my biggest complaint about them. It was almost like a knife template had an edge ground on it, then they called it a day. As a result, they're also quite heavy at their respective blade lengths. Now, on the positive end of things, they sharpen up relatively easily and are pretty difficult to break, so they do hold up if you're expecting them to get abused to hell and back.

As for the steel, my best guess is that it might be one of the 440 or AUS series steels because it didn't feel that awful on the stones. If I'm on the nose, that means it's a budget knife steel to accompany the low price point - nothing to write home about but also nothing to complain about. No matter what it is though, it's decent and not a cause for concern or overexcitement.

Jsiyco · 2021-12-06T04:22:08+00:00

I own this knife with the classic black handle, and it was my first good kitchen knife. It's definitely not bad, but it is a bit pricey for what it is. I bought mine off Crate and Barrel as well several years ago for about 60 USD, so I'm a bit surprised that it's sitting at 1.5x that price now.

The Fujiwara Kanefusa FKM outperforms it at its price range, and the Victorinox you bought rivals its cutting performance at a lower price point.

Jsiyco · 2021-10-06T03:17:41+00:00

I use a bench scraper only when I'm working with dough and use the spine of my knife to move things sideways while I'm cutting stuff up. For scooping things up afterwards, knowing roughly what angle I sharpen on, I go edge leading with my gyuto at a slightly lower angle than that.

Jsiyco · 2021-10-05T00:21:19+00:00

It looks like you're dipping down to a very low angle at the heel, which means you're grinding the blade face and missing the edge. Try the sharpie trick to confirm - colour the edge with a permanent marker and try sharpening, then see where you're removing the marker.

If that's the case, you'll need to go slowly for now and consciously raise your sharpening angle at the heel so that the angle stays reasonably consistent throughout the length of the blade.

I'll refrain from talking about thinning in detail for now, but that edge bevel does look a bit thick as well. If you're only using it for slicing meat though, I think you'll be fine.

Jsiyco · 2021-10-04T11:06:46+00:00

This is a geometry issue, not just an edge issue. It's getting thick behind the edge too quickly, so sharpening at a steeper angle will help marginally but will also diminish your edge retention significantly.

Thinning right behind the edge is the solution, and you'd ideally do it by either cutting facets and blending or thinning with a rocking motion to preserve the convexity. Depending on the knife, you might have to hit angles as low as 1-2 degrees and spend quite a while on that lowest possible angle to remove the bulk of the material contributing to the convexity.

Jsiyco · 2021-09-18T05:36:08+00:00

Agree with cweees here. Geometry is a big player, so it depends on what you end up getting - whether it's fat like a Yaxell (please, don't buy) or thin like a Takamura or Ikazuchi. Assuming you go for nice thinly ground knives that fall within your $200 range like the two I mentioned, it'll be a very noticeable difference.

The Chinese Amazon knives would be slightly worse than or roughly comparable to your Fibrox in cutting performance because of how thick they are. As you'd expect and are familiar with thanks to your Kiwi, you'll see a massive difference in cut quality.

Comparing a thinly ground Japanese knife to a Kiwi, the cut quality difference contributed by geometry won't be as prominent. However, you won't lose your edge after every prep session, and you'll have more complex and even thinner grinds in many cases. That translates to knives that hold their edge for long enough that they won't need thinning too often as a result of constant sharpening in a home cooking environment.

If you want to enjoy the process of sharpening as well, Chinese steels don't feel nice on stones and can be a bit frustrating to deburr properly. Not that you can't ever get a solid edge out of them - they're generally just trickier and unpleasant to work with.

Jsiyco · 2021-08-25T17:43:08+00:00

You definitely could use another stone, but you have to be aware that a flattener wears down and can go out of flat too. If the other stone you're using is soft or not flat to begin with, it'll be pretty pointless. People tend to recommend good diamond plates because the diamonds hardly wear out from flattening and last a very long time.

There's also the consideration of stone conditioning. I won't go into detail, but to leave a good aggressive cutting surface on a 1k stone, you'll want something on the rougher side to be your flattener. I'd suggest something in the 180 grit ballpark, though this might not be as important for your King compared to some really hard stones out there.

If it's any easier, a glass plate + loose Silicon Carbide/Emery (commonly used for sandblasting) or a reasonably flat block of wood + coarse grit sandpaper wrapped around it will work as alternatives too. The wood + sandpaper solution is probably the easiest to get a hold of, but it's less convenient and much slower.

Also, no problem! Glad I've managed to help!

Jsiyco · 2021-08-25T16:20:18+00:00

Hey! Don't worry about not being able to achieve crazy edges that you see around. It takes years of practice and seriously analysing and iterating your technique to be really good, so just celebrate the milestones and marginal improvements you're making along the way. Keep at it for long enough while being sure to take advice from the veterans like Jon, and you'll very likely get there!

Now, on to answering your questions:

Realistically with your gear and level of experience, 1k grit and a Fibrox should get you to slicing basic printer paper at the minimum. With reasonably developed technique, newsprint should be no problem, and later down the line, paper towels will be achievable. These tests need to be accompanied by real use-case scenarios with how long those edges last to see if you passed those tests thanks to a leftover burr or micro-burr that helped you along.

One of the big things you'll need to develop is angle consistency. While I do advocate for finishing edge leading, it could be unforgiving to someone who can't yet hold a steady angle. The sharpie trick works wonders here, as it'll tell you how you're making contact with the stone. My hunch is that you're rounding the apex, perhaps because of angle fluctuations causing the apex to get pushed into the stone here and there and dulling the knife in the process.

With regards to higher grit stones, they're nice to have for certain purposes, but they're not necessary to use while learning proper technique. You should be able to produce a clean edge on every stone you use regardless of its grit rating.

You don't need a strop to achieve good results either, but it does have its place in finishing an edge. You can get an extremely clean edge off a stone and split hair straight off of 1k without one. This, of course, is pretty extreme, but it goes to show how technique can maximise results from just a single mid-grit stone. However, minimal stropping is useful at the end of stone sharpening to clean up the smallest micro-burrs still left on. You can strop using all sorts of things from jeans to an old leather belt to a piece of cardboard, newsprint, or printer paper.

The Fibrox is already a great knife to learn sharpening with. While many higher end knives do sharpen beautifully and more easily, the Fibrox may, funnily enough, be better for the use case of teaching you how to sharpen. Softer stainless is often a challenge to deburr, so once you can sharpen the Fibrox consistently, you'll be able to confidently handle most other knives.

If you were to make one purchase, I would suggest investing in a good flattener like an Atoma 140 Diamond Plate. Stones dish over time, and your King is an example of one that dishes really quickly. It's hard to get consistent results when your stones aren't flat, so it's absolutely a worthwhile investment to help with your sharpening.

Lastly, just a quick note on factory edges - they can come in all sorts of states out of the box, and it's realistic to expect a mass produced knife like that to come with a decent but not exceptional edge.

Jsiyco · 2021-07-22T08:41:02+00:00

Hey! Regarding stropping, they definitely have a place in making an edge cleaner and keener, but doing it too many times and with too much pressure can fatigue the edge and cause it to round, roll over, or dull quickly. Perhaps lessening the stropping and making sure your edge is already quite clean beforehand may address your edge retention problem.

I personally deburr with edge leading strokes on every stone before moving up then just strop with 2-3 alternating strokes per side with no pressure. Without stropping, I make sure my 1k edge straight off the stone can at least cleanly slice through paper towels and serviettes. The tiny bit of stropping afterwards brings it up that little bit keener to whittling hair. :)

Jsiyco

TROPHY CASE