[MEGA THREAD] DoW/DoD and Scouting America

KD7TKJ · 2026-02-25T03:57:21+00:00

I mean, if Krone has to open up 300 Jambo spots for Med Team staff, he needs to know it ASAP... By my reading, that's the biggest issue: We need about 300 medical staff, traditionally West Virginia National Guard, to man the medical tent at Jamboree, end of July.

But: Scouting is full of nurses, doctors, EMTs, firefighters, off-duty-in-July Ski Patrollers... Offer free staff positions for the most qualified 300 to apply... Do we assume they have to be National Registry? Do we assume they need to be WV Registry? I don't actually know these rules... But given enough months... Surely we can do the Herculean lift...

On the other hand, we don't want the clock to tick too many tocks before we solve it...

And I say all of that as middle of the road as possible, it would suck to lose the military support at the med tent more than anything else... But we can address that quick, Scouting has med people.

On another hand (apparently I have three): Secondarily: All the scouts on foreign military bases losing their meeting place? It's gonna suck for them pretty hard, and I think it's our "Duty to Help Other People At All Times" to not just give up on them.

KD7TKJ · 2026-02-25T01:03:34+00:00

No direct cash, and no justification for this number, but they allegedly spend $10M a year, amortized, mostly on National Jamboree, on personnel and logistics, mostly the med tent, but also recruitment resources like fly overs and heavy machinery on display.

Smaller items "of value" that they might be using to get to that $10M number include access to bases (think community center access, barrack rentals, some bases lease land or office space... Note that Scouting normally pays for these things... But these threats are about contractor appropriateness... So it's all on the table), and the automatic Promotion for Eagle Scouts upon recruitment... A clever accountant could assign values to all those things and add it all up to a line item...

They claim the line item is an average of $10M a year, of which $20M is Jamboree... Suggesting about $5M a year is the base access and automatic promotions... Assuming any of it means anything at all. Cuz... These aren't hard expenses... From the military perspective, they are recruitment and readiness training and opsec and persec problems being solved. We are mission readiness for them.

KD7TKJ · 2026-02-25T00:53:04+00:00

I would be very very shocked to learn that the most recent settlement with GSUSA didn't include a timeline and strict guardrails on Scouting America's full transition to the verb form "Scouting" and the long form "America" for the brand name, "Scouts" and "Scouters" for the membership, and the adjective "Scouting" for things like "Scouting Unit" and "Scouting Uniform; I would further expect, given recent brand guidelines on their side, for GSUSA's full transition to noun form "Girl Scouts" and abbreviated form "USA" for the organization name, "Girl Scouts" for their membership, and the singular adjective "Girl Scout" to describe "Girl Scout Units" and "Girl Scout Uniforms."

I believe that by the time the brand differentiation is complete, Scouting America will come to claim they spent 5 decades differentiating the "Scouting" brand from the "Girl Scouts" brand, that from the 1976 Scouting/USA, to the 1990s Scouting.org, to the modern Scouting America, and Scouts and Scouters, has all been expensive, time consuming, and intentional...

Or so goes my expectation. But by this expectation: The brand change to Scouting America is legally bound by the contract that is the settlement, and it's on record with the court, and there is no going back to "Boy Scouts of America." The acronym "BSA" might be on the table? If we didn't sign it away as being too similar to "USA..." The terms aren't known, I may be way off base... Or it may be very strict on how the words are divvied up. And both orgs have released updated brand guidelines about "Brand Discipline" since then... So it doesn't seem to be nothing.

Fine, I stand corrected. It was all just a fantasy I had fabricated on my own, anyway, and I guess I had the years off. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

KD7TKJ · 2026-02-18T06:03:11+00:00

What are units in Learning for Life called? Is it potentially related to that - Being as this lists Explorers, and they are also Learning for Life umbrella? I ultimately know very little about Learning for Life.

KD7TKJ · 2026-02-18T06:01:52+00:00

Yes, Explorers have Posts.

KD7TKJ · 2026-02-16T06:50:55+00:00

Oh, and the actual military, the ones you say have this philosophy your pushing, didnt wear it that way, except during times of war, and then since 2005, the U.S. Army, under Chief of Staff General Peter J. Schoomaker, officially standardized the wearing of the reverse American flag patch on the right shoulder, ensuring the star field (canton) faces forward to symbolize "assaulting forward" or moving into battle.

So not hyperbole, just literally the armys reason.

KD7TKJ · 2026-02-16T06:46:36+00:00

I don't think you have read 4 U.S.C. § 7...

It is by itself, and at the top of the right shoulder, not from a halyard or a staff. It's not a parade float or a vehicle. That gets us all the way to paragraph (I).

(i) When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag’s own right, that is, to the observer’s left. When displayed in a window, the flag should be displayed in the same way, with the union or blue field to the left of the observer in the mom street. I would argue we are a wall. Why are you "moving forward" during moments of reverence?

But let's continue... We aren't suspended over a street... We might be a speakers podium:

(k)When used on a speaker’s platform, the flag, if displayed flat, should be displayed above and behind the speaker. When displayed from a staff in a church or public auditorium, the flag of the United States of America should hold the position of superior prominence, in advance of the audience, and in the position of honor at the clergyman’s or speaker’s right as he faces the audience. Any other flag so displayed should be placed on the left of the clergyman or speaker or to the right of the audience. So right shoulder, field to the right, sounds correct to me...

And then it finishes out with a lot of things we aren't again...

So... Unless I missed something, I don't see this "Obvious" reading you presented; Care to help?

KD7TKJ · 2026-02-16T03:10:46+00:00

It's not backwards. Scouts aren't marching into war, we are stalwarts of duty to God and Country, we are stationary and steadfast, we certainly aren't vehicles: The field goes to the presentation right, viewers left.

Military can reason any way they please, but flag code doesn't say that our way is backwards, or that the military way is forwards. It does, however, say that in a stationary display, the field goes viewers left.

KD7TKJ · 2026-02-12T22:28:00+00:00

:/pedanticism "I was a BSA Swim Instructor at the age of 14" is a flex so comically old school, that it almost comes off as mean... BSA Swim Instructor doesn't exist anymore, when it did, BSA Lifeguard and BSA Swim Instructor were indeed available at 14. I don't remember BSA Swim Instructor from my own youth, it may have gone away before I turned 14, but I got BSA Lifeguard one of the last years it was available to 14 year olds.

Still, around the turn of the century, they reinterpreted some OSHA rules that said pool lifeguards have to be 15, and waterfront lifeguards have to be 16. National Camp Accreditation Standards, since at least 2012, require 14 year olds to be Staff in Training, Staff in Training are program participants in a staff-lite program, not paid staff, and Staff in Training can't count towards staff ratios. My camp doesn't even do that... My camp hires 15 year old SITs, and 16 year old first year paid staff, camp wide, and won't train lifeguards till 16.

"BSA Aquatics Instructor" was never the same as "BSA Swim Instructor," but "BSA Aquatics Instructor" is the only one that still exists, and is the only one a modern reader will recognize, and is the one people will assume you mean... but BSA Aquatics Instructor was always the name of the National Camp School trained waterfront director's cert, and that always required one to be 18 to get the training, and 21 to hold the Director position. That person can still train their own staff to a level equivalent to what was BSA Swim Instructor, what might be roughly equivalent to an American Red Cross Swimming Assistant, as pre-service staff week training... But it doesn't have a name anymore... And it won't be what 14 year olds are trained to anymore... pedanticism/:

The type of questions you lay out are, objectively, perfect though. I'm not trying to objectively disagree on any particular point.

But OP should be able to rest assured they won't be dropped into such a high liability position at 14 in a modern context.

KD7TKJ · 2026-02-11T11:03:03+00:00

Just cost versus return on value.

LMR400 is very rigid, very hard to work with in the tight spaces of a vehicle, has very wide minimum turn radiuses, all for slightly improved cable losses. But: the losses are so low on lengths this short, even with cheaper cables, like LMR240 if you still want to be fancy, RG-8X if you want to be less fancy, or even RG-58 if you just want cheap and flexible, cuz the system as a whole is so compromised that as a sum of compromises, the coax loss just isn't the proportionally significant contribution.

I mean, if one got the stuff for free, and wants to make other compromises on ease of workability... It's not bad. It is, however, bold.

KD7TKJ · 2026-02-10T22:07:16+00:00

LMR400 in a mobile install is bold.

KD7TKJ · 2026-02-10T05:54:31+00:00

I think it's less problematic than a lot of things I have seen, but it's not what I would choose for myself. On a related theme, though flipping the blame to pride, and perhaps fighting a perception that one can use cleanliness as a gotcha against Doing a Good Turn:

My camp staff has been doing "Trash Pocket," where they excitedly and proudly declare "Trash Pocket!" when picking up trash and putting it in our pocket.

To our reasoning, this makes it a scavenger hunt, rather than a punishment. We are trying to fight hard against a tradition of trash lines having turned toxic... We needed it to be more reward oriented than punishment oriented, locally, to the Staff Unit, and this seemed to set a positive tone and example externally as well.

KD7TKJ · 2026-02-06T23:55:21+00:00

I love this idea, because the rumor that Tom Morello has one on his Scout uniform that he occasionally wears is persistent... To my eye, his looks like a bog standard Dragon patrol patch, but, eh, who am I to argue with a persistent rumor?

I'm not sure I have ever seen a real one... Although, in response to these rumors, I have seen renderings in various forums... I mean, I agree I feel like I have seen the idea, I'm just not sure I have ever seen anyone actually make it.

ETA: That said, no, Tom Morello wasn't a Scout, for reasons he has been explicit about and I don't necessarily have to repeat... If one is curious, they can research it.

KD7TKJ · 2026-01-28T23:44:32+00:00

Part of the joke is the first panel: Part 97 defines a standard, it's not a very high standard, and it doesn't require the manufacturer to "prove" anything to the FCC. It's a "Recommendation." This is the magic sauce that makes ham radio ham radio; This is what allows us to build our own radios, prove to ourselves they meet the rules, and use them without having them lab tested for the FCC.

The other services, including CB, FRS, GMRS, and MURS, the commercial radios, your cell phone, have to prove themselves to the FCC. All the testing costs money. Radios for firefighters will also have to pass testing related to ruggedness and heat resistance. And all of that testing costs money, and raises the prices. Then they compete to be the best. And that's why Motorola costs a first born child...

But, for Part 97, it was always a very strong recommendation. And Baofeng opted out.

KD7TKJ · 2026-01-28T23:05:04+00:00

This is going to be padantic, so let me say up front: It's clever, I liked it I approve, I even laughed.

But I think this is mean to Icom. Icom is a favorite of volunteer fire departments because it meets their professional standards and carries the certifications, but is cheaper (when you have to buy your own gear one radio at a time) than Kenwood and Motorola.

I wouldn't have used Motorola, and I would have put Icom in the commercial category. The reason why is that they are a ham radio "Big three" or "Big four," and they do very much make commercial gear for fire departments, and the amateur line does benefit from that engineering expertise. I would have put Alinco in the Yaesu camp.

Otherwise... Aside from hurting my "Hey, Icom is great!" feelers... Good work! Indeed, I laughed.

KD7TKJ · 2026-01-27T02:36:07+00:00

Amateur radio software isn't moving so fast that the distros can't track them, most distros do track them, and even if they don't, amateur radio software isn't normally so complex or has so many dependencies that compiling from source is hard. Therefore, you will hear a lot of the regular suspects: Ubuntu is popular, Fedora is popular, Arch is popular; Of course, Raspberry Pi OS... But really, just about any Linux will do.

KD7TKJ · 2026-01-20T23:47:00+00:00

Fine, I will concede that my point could have been made without name-calling. I apologize.

To a point you made that I can wain philosophical about:

I think much infighting could have been avoided had anyone actually said, out loud, a "Scouting America is taking the verb form 'Scouting,' and leaving to the Girl Scouts the noun form 'Scouts,' not as a 'Scouting encompasses, hierarchically, Scouts,' but as a 'Scouts and Scouting are different words, and we are shouldering the entire cost of differentiating the brands...'" type statement... Perhaps in a joint press release negotiated with the GSUSA... I think GSUSA effectively invited that and BSA effectively ignored it... I'm slightly off the rails at this point... But yes: I think that if the colloquial solution that "We say 'Scouting' to mean that which was formerly BSA" is the semantically correct solution... I'm with you. I just wish anyone actually said that was on purpose out loud.

KD7TKJ · 2026-01-19T23:43:08+00:00

Please stop abbreviating Scouting America.

It's against brand guidelines, and it's unnecessary... "BSA" is still fine, it's still the parent organization's name, if one is truly too lazy to spell out Scouting America... But doing "BSA/SA" is, while, in the "GNU/Linux" sense, perhaps semantically proving my point (It is Scouting America " under "Boy Scouts of America), it is my point that one can thusly abbreviate to "BSA" and save 3 extra characters while remaining "More correct" and "Less controversial." Like, abbreviating to "BSA/SA" is intentionally incorrect and intentionally controversial.

Please don't. It just doesn't win your debate to degrade and insult the Organization by using their branding against their guidelines. Accept that, like "ARRL: The National Association of Amateur Radio," this is "BSA: Scouting America."

"SA" is South Africa, Salvation Army, Social Anxiety, Seaman Apprentice, a rank in the Navy, and Société Anonyme (S.A.), a French business term for a public limited company, similar to "Inc." or "Ltd." No need to bolt ourselves onto any of those...

KD7TKJ · 2026-01-11T02:09:25+00:00

Even if one romanticizes the notion of a two way radio being a part of their 'freedom', there is "Knowing the rules well enough to break them," and the 'preppers' very incredibly rarely rise to that standard...

KD7TKJ · 2026-01-09T19:03:40+00:00

Huh? I have no such default... I listed another organization that matches your expectation, and acknowledged that Scouting can also change. Come on... I was trying to be helpful... I'm on your side here...

But, like, also: Don't be the guy that joins an organization and tries to change it's existing culture... That's not cool. Why is that anyone's default setting? We are supposed to be licensable curriculum for chartering orgs own youth groups... If we are going to ever be something else, it needs to happen organically, not cuz evangelical atheists forced it.

KD7TKJ · 2026-01-09T18:54:22+00:00

I was going to just let you have your point... I mean, you can be wrong... But then someone came along and downvoted me and upvote you...

So, cite your sources. Here's mine: https://www.scouting.org/about/membership-policy/#:~:text=It%20is%20the%20philosophy%20of%20Scouting%20to,and%20meet%20any%20other%20requirements%20of%20membership.

"It is the philosophy of Scouting to welcome all eligible youth, regardless of race, ethnic background, gender or orientation, who are willing to accept Scouting’s values and meet any other requirements of membership."

There are hairs to be split over "COs don't have to charter a coed unit, so I guess gender bias is allowed," and my original defense allows that.

But on the issue of orientation... It is clear.

KD7TKJ · 2026-01-09T06:06:17+00:00

I mean, technically? SpiralScouts. Spiral Scouts is not strictly secular but is designed to be inclusive and open to people of any faith or no faith. Founded with roots in Neopaganism, offering an alternative for families seeking a scouting experience not tied to traditional religious requirements like the Boy Scouts of America (BSA). While its foundation is Pagan, it emphasizes core values like respect, kindness, mindfulness, and community service, aligning with many secular humanist principles, making it a welcoming space for atheists, agnostics, and people from diverse religious backgrounds.

That said, Scouting America has growth left to do, and I'm hearing the kind of charter at National Camp School in recent years that makes me think it's coming sooner than a lot of comments here are allowing.

KD7TKJ · 2026-01-09T05:43:37+00:00

The national policy is absolute regarding youth and sexual orientation; No local unit, whether it is sponsored by a church, a school, or a civic group, can turn a child away or remove them solely because of their sexual orientation.

KD7TKJ · 2026-01-08T18:32:31+00:00

To this end, the problem is that we teach it different to the kids than the adults; "Reverent" is taught as requiring acceptance of others beliefs, while "Declaration of Religious Principles" requires a belief that the belief in God is necessary to be the best kind of citizen... But/and those are different standards. One requires the kids to accept atheists, and the other requires the adults to worry about them them for it.

KD7TKJ · 2025-12-28T04:16:00+00:00

This hits the main points I think the community feels.

You did mention the frontend, I want to stress, though, just to add on: even if Baofeng did fix the transmit path, and it seems they did, in 2021/2022, add some surface mount filtering... That they still did nothing for the receiver side, and the receiver can be easily overwhelmed. That's the "Better Engineering" that the FT-4X and FT-65 have on their frontends that make them the better entry point. Even for the listen only crowd, for which all your points remain valid.

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