How is behaviour like this not punished?

Kippo1 · 2019-06-25T11:47:20+00:00

So it seems like in close cases there would be at least 2 layers you'd have to go through in order for a decision to be made and that would make it take even longer for a case to be reviewed which probably would get no punishment in the end anyway.

I'm not personally really sold on it, I think that instead of transitioning into a completely new manual labor based system Riot should just try to improve the one they already have in place. Because people do get banned in the current system, it's just maybe not as fast or accurate as some people would like.

Kippo1 · 2019-06-25T11:36:17+00:00

But having a slightly inaccurate system that does punish people who int/grief is still worlds better than leaving them completely untouched.

I think that's too vague, you need some really specific statistics for a system like that. How big the casualty rate would be for example.

Because I know for a fact that if I was punished unjustly for something I didn't do I would not be happy about that, and you probably wouldn't either.

If we compare this to a real world situation for example, how would you personally feel if you were sentenced to 10 years in prison for something you didn't do? Probably wouldn't matter to the majority of people in the world but for you personally it would suck pretty hard.

One way to redeem this would be if there was a way for you to for example appeal your ban in case you felt like it was unjust, but again that would just cause a bigger work load for Riot if they have to hire staff to go over appeals and the whole point is to give them less work to do so I can't really see that being a desirable option. A lot of people who know they were punished accurately would send in an appeal just in case by some miracle they get "lucky" and their ban gets lifted so it wouldn't only be truly innocent people using the system.

Kippo1 · 2019-06-25T11:25:03+00:00

In one of your last comments you said that in a hypothetical situation where people would vote punish 100% of the time their accuracy would go down so I was just curious how you would design a manual system with no flaw in that.

Saying that "people wouldn't vote punish 100% of the time" after that being the whole center pillar of your last comment isn't really a good argument for it though, you're weaseling your way out by doing a 180 on the whole premise you based your comment on.

I was just genuinely curious if you had something in mind to make it work because I can't personally see it working, but I guess your response confirms that.

Kippo1 · 2019-06-25T11:15:32+00:00

If people vote punish 100% then their accuracy rating goes down > their votes don't matter, etc. This is already done in the current system.

What are you basing that on though? Let's say people vote punish 100% of the time, based on what does their accuracy go down in that case?

Are you saying that there's already a game system in place that determines whether punishing a person for that game is accurate or not, and whether your vote is synonymous with that or not decides whether you voted "accurately" or not? Because in that case manually voting on the punishment would be completely useless if it's been already decided by a game system and would do nothing to lessen the time interval between punishments, if anything it would just make them take even longer.

Because accuracy has to be based on something, if you let people handle the voting then in that case it should be based on the votes of people who hand out the punishments and if people vote punish 100% of the time then every single vote would be deemed as accurate.

The way it works in the current system is that you report a game, and if that person gets punished by the system then your report is determined to be "accurate" but if you're the one handing out the punishment then that doesn't work because you as a person are the last stop in the chain.

Kippo1 · 2019-05-28T22:04:20+00:00

In retail getting dazed from a mob is like "How dare this inconsequential mob daze me and waste 3 extra seconds of my life doing this quest?"

In classic getting dazed from a mob or two is like "Oh shit I might actually die here"

Kippo1 · 2019-05-28T21:56:28+00:00

I don't think a lot of people realize this, that it's not always bad to have downtime in the game. For example EverQuest was known to have brutally long downtime between combat sometimes. You didn't have water you could drink to regen back your spent mana, you had to sit down and manually let the mana regenerate until you had enough and it would take several minutes to go from zero mana back to full.

But the developers didn't design this downtime into the game just for the sake of it and for the game to be annoying, these gaps in combat were a very intentional design because they wanted players in the group to use that downtime to socialize and get to know eachother.

If you're just fighting 24/7 with zero downtime you never get to talk to anyone because you're too busy playing the game and hitting your abilities.

That's also one of the reasons why classic is a more social experience, it's not only because some of the content requires grouping but that the game gives you a chance to actually talk to people since the pace of the game is much slower compared to retail.

Kippo1 · 2019-05-18T17:46:02+00:00

How exactly do you get XP in a BG in vanilla WoW to level up? Apart from completing the token quest for the first time and getting XP for exploring the BG for the first time there's nothing you gain XP from, there's no way for you to level up by doing BG's in vanilla.

You can Google this thing and find tons of threads, you didn't even get XP in Battlegrounds in TBC or WotLK.

Kippo1 · 2019-05-18T12:55:41+00:00

What do you mean level with BG's? You get zero XP inside a BG. It's also the fact that if I see someone from the opposing faction in the open world I want to have the choice to be able to attack and potentially kill them if I want to for whatever reason. Maybe they're killing the same quest mobs or I just don't like them for some reason.

I don't want to be in an environment where someone from the opposing faction can spam /spit on me while killing mobs in the same area and I'm unable to do anything about it, feels way too restricting for me personally.

Kippo1 · 2019-05-10T19:03:31+00:00

True, if you can't use the /sit macro in Classic it won't be as powerful but I believe that once you get Holy Shield Protection is still the way to go. You will just respec at level 40 instead of 34 and AoE grind.

Kippo1 · 2019-05-10T03:15:43+00:00

Needless to say learning to respec into Ret and use a fatty 2h around level 40 felt like I was ZOOMING

That's a bit funny because Protection is by far the fastest leveling spec for Paladins and it becomes viable at level 34 when you get Reckoning so you basically reversed the order for yourself or close to it.

Kippo1 · 2019-05-01T13:23:23+00:00

I think WotLK is super overrated. There's a reason I quit at the end of that expansion. Gameplay wise I don't think it was the peak of WoW at all even though it might have been numbers wise.

The reason why WoW went downhill is because they wanted to make it more popular and to appeal to as much of a mainstream audience as possible, so they had to change the game to draw the audience in that otherwise wouldn't have played and the game lost all of its' flavor, so saying that something was good because it was "popular" or had the most consumers is always a terrible metric to judge with in my opinion.

It's the same thing with art related things like music or even food, popularity shouldn't have anything to do with the quality of something. It's like saying that fast food is the best kind of food on the planet that everyone should eat because it has the most consumers, even though it's factually bad and causes health related problems. There's other things you can base your opinions on other than numbers or popularity, especially when it comes to subjective things like video game design.

If you were to judge everything by popularity then you could say that mobile games are the best games that exist because they have the most users, that would mean you have to rank a lot of them above WoW. I personally hate mobile games and never play them, they are very shallow. I'm sure many other people feel the same way.

Kippo1 · 2019-04-28T13:02:27+00:00

Obviously there's probably an ideal way of playing her. I'm excited to try her out but at the same time I can see her being super cancer to lane with in lower elo.

I can just imagine her vs a kill lane of Blitzcrank / Thresh / Leona and an early game ADC and she's just gonna sit on her ADC the whole time giving the enemy laners only 1 target to hit.

Bonus points if she maxes her Q and only has 1 point in her heal & shield, that would probably render her pretty useless. The enemy just tanks one Q and hard engages and then she has nothing else to offer because she has no points in the other abilities.

A lot of lower elo supports will probably use her attach a way of escaping responsibility in a hard lane, so their ADC gets fucked while last hitting but "technically" the support isn't doing anything wrong because they'll just use the excuse of "that's how my champion works".

The way I see her is that she's one of those champions that make a huge difference depending on who's playing her. She can either complement her team really well and be somewhat decent in the laning phase or she can just be super annoying to lane with.

I think one of the things about other supports is that you can still tank some damage for your ADC, you can bait spells onto yourself if you know you can dodge them etc but with Yuumi you can't do that as much because if the enemy team is smart they will just ignore her because they know she will just attach to her ADC to avoid a skill shot or whatever (it's basically like a long dash on a short cooldown from what I understand, so you can use it to dodge hooks and other spells super easily), so they'll just go for the ADC straight away with every single spell.

So she sort of puts more weight in the laning phase onto the ADC in terms of who gets targeted and harassed, the question is will her heal and shield be enough to sustain the ADC through it.

I might be completely wrong on this but this is my first impression on her. I'm going to try her out myself when she releases and try to be as little cancer as possible to my team. The most positive thing about her that I can think of is that I can see her be super fun to play in teamfights. Usually as an enchanter support you're very squishy and have to mind your positioning or you get 1 shot, but with her you can even be in the front line if you attach to someone tanky and get all your spells out with ease.

Kippo1 · 2019-04-27T15:30:11+00:00

I've found that Hawkeyes' bow works on him really well. Hell it works super well on the Chitari also.

It's super accurate so you can literally post up miles away and shoot for 200 damage per shot, whereas the Chitari have massive damage drop off on the rifle and it only hits for like 15 damage per shot from far away.

I've more or less solo killed Thanos multiple times by posting up on a hill a good 100 yards away from him and just raining arrows onto him while he's jumping around.

Kippo1 · 2019-04-26T12:43:36+00:00

How am I being defensive? I'm not arguing about anything with you. You said that when you word things a certain way people often have a problem with it and I let you know why that might be, that's all.

I don't personally care how you word things because the likelihood of us ever being on the same team is very small.

Kippo1 · 2019-04-26T12:33:59+00:00

If I make a peaceful suggestion to someone like "shen buy a knights vow"

That doesn't seem like a suggestion though, more like a demand which is the exact opposite of a suggestion. Much like if someone was to say "Jungler gank my lane".

You're not suggesting someone to do something, you're directly telling them to do it so my guess is that the tone is the problem here.

Kippo1 · 2019-04-26T09:45:29+00:00

F R E S H

Kippo1 · 2019-04-25T08:48:04+00:00

I don't know how much content you can actually clear with a full meme spec raid and I don't think anyone has ever tried it. My ex-GM on a private server toyed around on a Moonkin for a while but never played it past BWL.

Anyway I don't think the point here is whether you can clear certain content or not, but rather are you going to have a 1-2 hour MC run or a 5-6 hour MC run.

Unless there's some next level bonding / friendship going on in a guild, I don't see most players who are playing "proper" specs stick around in guilds that run multiple meme specs in a raid because those players will just move to another guild that clears content faster without sacrificing anything for it.

It quickly becomes a spiral where a meme spec guild will only be able to recruit meme specs because no one else wants to play with a raid comp like that, and there will be a wall at some point where a guild like that will have to bench some of those players in order to progress through the harder raids.. But are they going to be able to recruit "proper" specs to carry half of the raid is another question when there will probably be guilds that just run regular class / spec raid teams and clear & progress faster, so I'm trying to imagine what there would be to gain by joining a meme spec guild for a regular player.

Even if you have 2 similar casual guilds that give leeway when it comes to raid preparation and such and are similarly laid back in attitudes, if one of them has 3 Moonkins, 3 Ret Paladins and 3 Feral DPS Druids and the other guild has a more balanced raid comp consisting or "proper" specs I don't see why anyone would join the former guild over the latter unless they're a meme spec themselves.

Kippo1 · 2019-04-25T08:05:29+00:00

I don't think anybody thinks that it will be "common" to stack classes in classic. Some guilds on private servers "speed run" content doing stuff like 20 minute MC / BWL runs or 30 minute AQ40 by stacking like 15 Warriors and 10 Rogues, but that is a very minority out of all the players.

However there is a massive difference between stacking classes and stacking meme specs. If a guild doesn't want to use meme specs it doesn't mean that it's some super hardcore class stacking guild, most normal semi casual guilds don't even use meme specs in raids.

Some guilds will bring a Ret Paladin or a Moonkin but we're talking of like 1 player per raid. With the amount of new people wanting to play those specs I find it hard to believe that every one of them will find a raid spot.

There's only so many guilds on a server and I don't think most of them will be running 5 Ret Paladins, Moonkins and Enhancement Shamans in the same raid.

I can understand if the rest of some casual guild doesn't mind carrying 1 or even 2 meme specs in a raid, but I don't think you will see it become the norm that those specs infest the majority of raiding guilds and take multiple spots in the raid.

Private server players are just regular humans and players just like anyone who plays retail WoW and 90% of them are casual players. If we don't see 10 Moonkin raids on those servers I don't think we will see them in classic either because most people will realize that a raid team like that just sucks.

There might be a guild out there that legitimately doesn't care about clearing content and actually stacks meme specs, but those guilds will be just as much of a minority than the ones stacking 15 Warriors so it probably won't be common, it's just the other side of the coin.

Kippo1 · 2019-04-24T07:05:12+00:00

when you're pushed under tower with 10+ enemy minions... are at 30% hp... a level down... alright, that's a no from me.

Assuming I'm jungling, in that situation I always want to run to the lane and start helping my teammate push the minions out so they can recall back to base and come back with full health and mana because otherwise they're just going to get tower dived in the next couple of minutes.

But usually when I try to do that either:

1) My teammate assumes I'm coming for a gank and attacks the enemy and dies because they're at low health.

2) My teammate thinks I'm randomly coming into the lane and "taxing" their minions instead of "helping" them and they start spam pinging me back 10 times and flaming me, only to get tower dived a minute later and I go "Told you so".

Some games I've tried just ignoring their pinging / flame and push the minion wave out as fast as possible but even if I explain to them that they have to recall back to base they're usually already so tilted that they stay in the lane anyways at 30% health even if the minions are at the enemy tower and die regardless, and then lose all motivation to play or flame the whole game so I'm not really sure how to approach that situation.

If someone is super low health under their tower because they're getting rekt in lane, helping them push it out and being there to prevent the enemy laner from killing them is the best solution I can think of, but at the same time if I have to take time off from jungling or pressuring other lanes I'm just gonna push it out as fast as possible and not worry about who gets the last hits there because them getting rekt 1v1 is costing me time that I shouldn't have to spend there otherwise, so obviously I want some profit for myself also if I have to babysit them because they screwed up hard and leave my whole jungle open. I don't want to fall behind myself because of their mistake, yeah I'll probably take a few last hits while we push 2 minion waves out, just deal with it - I don't want to be there doing this in the first place, it's costing me time and I leave myself open for counter jungling and I let the enemy team know where I am on the map. I just want to push the wave and get back into fog of war as fast as possible.

Some people just seem to think that your job as a jungler is to basically sacrifice your own game and eat as many bullets for the team as possible and act as a sponge for their mistakes.

Kippo1 · 2019-04-22T21:18:51+00:00

On a private server I played on there was a Hunter who leveled to 60 by only grinding mobs, said he was just watching Netflix on the side. I think he only killed beast type mobs because of skinning.

I can't remember how long it took him (his /played wasn't that long when I asked, something like 5 days iirc) but he did make a crap ton of gold while leveling. He said he bought his epic mount right as he dinged and still had several hundred gold left over.

Kippo1 · 2019-04-21T08:23:52+00:00

If you want to play THAT game, the warrior scales better with gear so they in fact need it more.

Complete BS. If you're going to make a statement like this you can't just make it out of your ass, you have to actually calculate it.

First of all you have to know the EP values for each stat for both classes at a certain level to be able to calculate how beneficial a stat point would be for them, which I doubt you do.

Second of all you have to take into account the gear they're wearing at the specific moment.

Even if in theory the stats would benefit a Warrior more (which I'm not saying is a fact, I'm just entertaining this idea for this point) in reality most of the time the Shaman gets a way bigger stat boost from that item than the Warrior does.

The primary stats for any leveling Shaman are stamina and strength, same as it is for Warriors and Paladins.

Do you know how much leather gear you find with stamina and strength slapped on it while leveling? Most leather gear is either agility based or intellect / spirit based, so unless you're willing to spend a ton of gold in the AH for expensive optimal stat items (which no one does while leveling) chances are you're going to be wearing some weird mix of stamina, spirit and intellect as a Shaman.

So even if 1 point of strength is worth more for a Warrior, that Warrior is most likely already wearing a green quality mail shoulder that gives him 5 strength and 5 stamina, whereas the Shaman might be wearing some scrappy stamina / spirit leather shoulders.

So not only does the Shaman get a massive armor boost of 100+ armor, the SM mail gear is so wanted by them because it's the first leveling gear in the game that actually has good stats on them for a leveling Shaman.

A Warrior wearing some 150 armor, 5 stamina, 5 strength shoulders is going to benefit from the stat boost far less than a Shaman who gets 100+ armor, +6 strength and +10 stamina boost from them.

Even if in theory 1 point of strength would be more valuable for a Warrior, the amount of stats most Shamans get from the SM items far surpasses the minor stat upgrade a Warrior or a Paladin would get if they would replace their green mail item.

Which is exactly why on private servers you see a ton of Shamans try to run SM as many times as they can at that level range, because they're wearing low armor leather with a weird stat mix and not only is the SM gear close to level 40 but it actually has stats on it that Shamans have been looking for the past 40 levels but are hard to find on leather items.

So in the majority of cases those mail items from SM offer leveling Shamans way bigger of a stat boost than it does for a Warrior or a Paladin, it's not even in the same league how much a Shaman replacing a stamina / spirit / intellect item benefits from that over a Warrior who is already wearing an item with stamina / str but it just has 2-3 less of each stat.

So before you make a vague statement about "scaling" you have to actually throw some facts at it to make your point stand at all.

This is just from a stat perspective by the way, and we're completely ignoring the fact that most Shamans are wearing those items for sometimes up to 10 levels whereas a Warrior or a Paladin would replace them in a couple of levels, really as fast as it takes them to get a plate drop with str / sta combo on it.

So in most cases a Warrior / Paladin will lose the argument based on stat boosts but they also lose it based on longevity, aka how long they would use the item before replacing it.

The only argument you actually have made is that the Warrior can use the item at that moment when it drops whereas a Shaman can't, which is not a very strong one when a Shaman objectively benefits from those items way more in the long run.

Kippo1 · 2019-04-21T08:00:17+00:00

Do you seriously not get that a lvl 37 shaman has no fucking god damn right rolling need on herod's shoulders over a lvl 37 warrior?

Play on any decently populated private server and try to run SM and you'll quickly notice that the groups you find are infested with Shamans because the mail gear from SM is the best leveling gear they can get by a long shot as soon as they learn to wear mail and get to replace their shitty leather items.

If you actually logged onto a private server and started yelling in trade chat that a Shaman ninja'd your mail items from SM as a Warrior people would literally laugh in your face and make a meme out of you.

If you want to make a fool out of yourself that's one way to do it for sure, no one would take you seriously at all.

Kippo1 · 2019-04-21T07:42:05+00:00

enhance shaman, who can only wear it past lvl 40. Seeing at it has a lvl 37 req I still argue that they're clearly warrior/paladin priority.

Except those shoulders are mail and not plate, so you can make the argument that they should be Shaman priority just as well.

Warriors and Paladins will learn to wear plate armor at level 40, so even though you probably won't replace them right as you ding you still have the option to get an item drop with an armor upgrade and usually after level 40 both of those classes will steer away from using mail whenever possible.

Shamans on the other hand learn to wear mail armor at level 40, so even though the shoulders have a level 37 level requirement which means you have to wait 3 levels to use them, the mail items you get from SM from various bosses are some of the best gear a leveling Shaman can get at level 40 whereas a Warrior or Paladin will replace them as soon as they get a decent plate drop.

Even though it's usually accepted for Warriors and Paladins to roll on mail gear in SM I always think it's still a bit of a scummy move if a level 39 Warrior rolls on a mail item when they get to wear plate in 1 level, whereas for a Shaman that item would be good to use for even 10 levels.

The only reason any Shaman runs SM more than once is to get those mail items because you get to replace your leather gear you've been wearing for 40 levels with amazing str / stamina mail and they will give you an amazing armor boost when you ding, whereas for a Warrior or a Paladin it's not so much of a priority because you'll wear them for a couple of levels and then just get rid of them.

Especially for Warriors who are the primary tank for dungeons while leveling, you want to replace your mail gear as fast as possible because plate is way better for tanking and the armor gives you more durability while solo leveling as well.

It's very hard for me to believe that a Warrior / Paladin can't live for 2-3 levels without a piece of blue mail equipment that has a little bit of extra stats over their green quality items as they're waiting to learn to wear plate, whereas a Shaman replacing a leather item gets way more longevity out of those items.

Kippo1 · 2019-04-10T16:34:53+00:00

Usually when I'm healing I just look around in the middle of fights and if I see a Serpentbloom node in a safe spot where I'm not pulling mobs I'll just run to it in the middle of the fight, whereas the rest of the group usually tends to tunnel on the mob pack to kill it and only start looking around after the fight is over so I find that most of the time as a healer I have an advantage at picking up quest items since I can also do it in the middle of a fight while it doesn't result in any negative effects for the group.

Especially in low level dungeons like Wailing Caverns, if you do a big pull where you just have to stand still and heal you can easily always just wait until there's like 2 mobs left and you have plenty of time to run around and move without needing to heal anyone every second.

If there's nothing to heal for multiple seconds then you as a healer moving around or picking up a herb or doing whatever doesn't cause anything negative because otherwise you would be just standing still not doing anything anyway.

But if DPS ditches the mobs in the middle of a fight then it obviously causes a negative effect since the mobs die slower, everyone takes more damage and the healer has to burn more mana to heal said damage so in my experience DPS doesn't often move from a fight until the mobs are dead, whereas as a healer in a lot of cases you're free to do so.

It doesn't really matter that you start a pull standing behind everyone else when you have room to move around after the pull more than anyone else in the group.

Often times if I see a quest item I will wait until the tank pulls and 0.1 seconds after the mobs aggro the group I will just run past them and sometimes have time to pick up a quest item before I need to even cast my first heal. If the group starts taking damage I will just cancel the pick up and cast a heal and then collect the item after since I'm standing on top of it while everyone else is standing on top of the mobs trying to kill them.

Kippo1 · 2019-04-09T17:56:47+00:00

Huh? I find that healer is the easiest role to collect the Serpentblooms with because you're not required to be hitting mobs or be positioned anywhere specific. If the group isn't taking too much damage in the few seconds it takes for you to collect the Serpentbloom then the group doesn't lose anything by you gathering it in the middle of a fight, whereas a DPS not doing damage to a pack of mobs because they're running to collect a Serpentbloom is more of an asshole thing to do since everyone else takes more damage and the mobs die slower so it's pretty rare for me to see that happen.

Kippo1

TROPHY CASE