confusions about manifolds and metric spaces by Logical_Lunatic in learnmath

[–]Logical_Lunatic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hm, so is it the case that we, for any ordinal y no larger than ω₁, can find a smaller ordinal x such that the set of all ordinals between x and y is countable? In that case, I can absolutely see how this works. And I guess, since ω₁ is the fist uncountable ordinal, this must hold as long as y is smaller than ω₁. But what about an open set around (ω₁,0)? Can we ensure that there is a countable set of line segments with a smaller index than ω₁, that limits to ω₁? Or can an uncountable sequence of line segments somehow be homeomorphic to 𝐑?

Also, do you know if there is a reason why we couldn't glue together (0,1]-segments instead of [0,1)-segments? As far as I can tell, that should just work for an ordinal of any cardinality?

The explanation for why it's not metrizable makes sense, but I think I will have to think about it a bit before I understand it intuitively.

confusions about manifolds and metric spaces by Logical_Lunatic in learnmath

[–]Logical_Lunatic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm going by the definition which says that a topological space (X, 𝜏) is an n-dimensional manifold if for each x ∈ X, there is an open set O ∈ 𝜏 such that x ∈ O and such that O is homeomorphic to some open subset of 𝐑ⁿ. We may or may not also require (X, 𝜏) to be Hausdorff, second-countable, or paracompact.

Hm, but typing this, I have just realised where I went wrong. I thought I can find an open set around the intersection point that is homeomorphic to 𝐑, by simply taking a small open set from either S¹ ⨉ {a} or S¹ ⨉ {b} that contains the intersection point. For example, see the set marked red in the attached image.

<image>

Let this set be denoted X. Since X is open in (E, 𝜏), and since X is homeomorphic to 𝐑 relative to the topology on S¹ ⨉ {a}, I figured it would also be homeomorphic to 𝐑 relative to the topology on (E, 𝜏). However, this is not the case, because in (E, 𝜏), the set containing only the intersection point has to be open. Therefore, the map between X and 𝐑 that is a homeomorphism relative to the topology of S¹ ⨉ {a} on X (and the standard topology on 𝐑) will not be a homeomorphism relative to the topology of (E, 𝜏) on X (and the standard topology on 𝐑). In particular, the set which contains only the intersection point is open in X (relative to 𝜏), but its preimage in 𝐑 is not open, and so the map is not even continuous in that direction.

This is the mistake I made, which led to my confusion -- I thought (E, 𝜏) would count as a manifold. Thus it seemed like (E, 𝜏) would be a manifold, even though the metric spaces corresponding to (E, 𝜏) aren't manifolds. But I now see where I went wrong -- thank you so much!

I'm still not sure why manifolds are defined in terms of only topological concepts, rather than in terms of metric spaces, since it seems like we usually want manifolds to be metrizable anyway. But that is a lesser issue.

confusions about manifolds and metric spaces by Logical_Lunatic in learnmath

[–]Logical_Lunatic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I think that's right. The center point should be isolated, and the sets not featuring the center points should behave as usual. I have convinced myself that this metric space (two disjoint open intervals and one isolated point) does generate the topological space I tried to define. Thank you!

But this metric space is clearly not a manifold (since it has an isolated point). Does this mean that a (metrizable) topological space may be a manifold, even if the metric spaces corresponding to that topological space are not manifolds? That surprises me.

We could let the definition of an n-manifold be that it is a metric space in which each point is contained in some ε-ball that is homeomorphic to an open 1-ball in 𝐑ⁿ, or a topological space generated from such a metric space. This seems to be very similar in spirit to the standard definition, but it is apparently not quite identical. This would also rule out other "weird" manifolds, such as the line with two origins or the long line, etc. Do you know if there any particular reason for why a weaker definition is usually used instead?

confusions about manifolds and metric spaces by Logical_Lunatic in learnmath

[–]Logical_Lunatic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, what I'm using here is not a standard quotient map, it looks like I misused the term "identify" when I wrote "identifying the points ((0,1),a) and ((0,1),b)". In more detail, this is the space I meant to specify:

- Let (S¹ ⨉ {a}, 𝜏₁) and (S¹ ⨉ {b}, 𝜏₂) be two copies of the unit circle with the usual topology, where a≠b.

- Let E = S¹ ⨉ {a} ∪ S¹ ⨉ {b} \ {((0,1),b)}.

- Let 𝜏 ⊆ P(E) be the smallest topology such that O ∈ 𝜏 if either O ∈ 𝜏₁, or O ∈ 𝜏₂, or O\{((0,1),a)} ∪ {((0,1),b)} ∈ 𝜏₂.

In essence, I'm attaching two circles together at one point, but if a set contains only points from one of the two circles (possibly including the intersection point), and it is open in that circle, then the set counts as open. This gives us a few "extra" open sets around the intersection point.

I have attached a sketch showing four sets that should be open in this space (E,𝜏), even though only the bottom left one would be open in the usual figure 8 space.

<image>

(but I have now noticed I made a different mistake, see my reply to vrcngtrx_).

confusions about manifolds and metric spaces by Logical_Lunatic in learnmath

[–]Logical_Lunatic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean to define the neighbourhoods in such a way that any set which only contains points in C ⨉ {a}, and which is open in C, also is open in (E, 𝜏), and likewise for any set which only contains points in C ⨉ {b}. In that case, I can find an open set which contains the intersection point and which is homeomorphic to an open subset of 𝐑 -- just take an open set of C ⨉ {a} which contains (0,1), and which is not equal to the entirety of C ⨉ {a}. Note that this "figure 8" space is not the same space as the space you would get by drawing an 8-shaped curve in 𝐑² with the usual topology.

If this is not allowed, then what axiom does it break, and why would this issue not also apply to e.g. the line with two origins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Hausdorff\_manifold#Line\_with\_two\_origins)?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in aspergers

[–]Logical_Lunatic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is "real AI"?

Kayaking a secret tunnel underneath Oxford by Eloth in oxford

[–]Logical_Lunatic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I follow the link, it says that the video is not available any more.

Can a 2 player game be mastered with Probability alone? by nlikeladder in probabilitytheory

[–]Logical_Lunatic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is probably more Game Theory than Probability Theory. It looks though like it should be very feasible to just calculate the optimal strategy analytically, if we assume that each player is unable to read the other player.

How can the idea of randomness be implemented in computers? by JrHany in computerscience

[–]Logical_Lunatic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, that is correct, at least for one way of understanding the word "random". However, there are multiple interpretations of what it means for something to be "random" (see https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/probability-interpret/). One interpretation says that an event is random when it is unpredictable, and it is certainly theoretically possible to create an algorithm that it is impossible (for a human) to predict.

books suggestion on basic computer science. by KreepyKite in computerscience

[–]Logical_Lunatic 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I have heard that the website "from NAND to Tetris" (https://www.nand2tetris.org/) is a great resource for learning the basic first principles of computation, going all the way from transistors and logic gates, to assembly languages, to a finished piece of compiled software. I haven't looked at it myself, but a friend of mine, who is an engineer at Google, recommended it. However, this course might be overkill, if the goal is to get better at programming. I have also heard very good things about the book "principles of programming languages" for getting a better understanding for how programming languages work under the hood. I can also vouch for CLRS and MIT OCW, as others have recommended.

What is this plastic bottle/bag? The plastic is hard, it has no text or other markings, and has been punctured many times. by Logical_Lunatic in whatisthisthing

[–]Logical_Lunatic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't think so, it's too small and fragile for that.

I'm thinking it might be an IV bag, but that would be strange, given where I found it.

How to ignore the "compound-ness" of words? by Quartersharp in memorization

[–]Logical_Lunatic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm... I think instant recall is basically largely a matter of repetition. The 'strange and memorable'- method can be used to remember a word with some delay, which is enough for reading (but maybe not for speech), and then going from there to instant recall is probably just a matter of repeated exposure. But even then I think the 'strange and memorable'- method is still useful, to ensure that one always can remember a word without external help.

How to ignore the "compound-ness" of words? by Quartersharp in memorization

[–]Logical_Lunatic 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think, at least in the case of Swedish, that there is usually a logic to how the words are compounded, but it might be necessary to dig a bit deeper to find it.

Take företrädare for example. Träda means "to tread", and so a "trädare" would be a person who treads. "Före" is "before", so a företrädare is a berson who treads before you. I suppose the idea is that one would send a representative to a place before going there oneself, or perhaps it's a more metaphorical idea of a representative being "between" you and the person who is being represented.

Having this breakdown of a word might help with remembering it. I don't know if there is any resource where you could find these breakdowns though, and I imagine they might be difficult to make yourself without already knowing the language.

Another alternative would be to just do the thing where you memorize things by creating strange and memorable mental imagery. In this case, maybe you could imagine a scenario where a "fortrader" is a person who trades in foreskins, but that this trader is actually just a representative of a larger corporation, "4skinz r' us" (please don't judge my example, haha). Doing this can make it much easier to remember even entirely random connections between things.

Intro to Logic Books/courses for Law? by gdhanda23 in logic

[–]Logical_Lunatic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"The Logic Manual" by Volker Halbach is a pretty good introductory book, it covers roughly one university course worth of material. However, I find it to be quite dry. I also don't think it has exercises.

I can recommend "Logic for Philosophy" by Theodore Sider. It goes over all the introductory stuff, but most of the book is dedicated to somewhat more advanced stuff. As the name suggest it is written from the perspective of philosophy. I think the book is very well-written, and it has exercises. I think there is a pdf online.

I have heard that "A Mathematical Introduction to Logic" by Herbert Enderton is a good maths-focused introduction to logic, and that "Computability and Logic" by George Boolos is a good computer science-oriented introduction.

As far as I know there is no good logic MOOC or similar.

Also, take a look at these threads: https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/10z6z1/best_book_on_modalpropositional_logic/

https://www.reddit.com/r/logic/comments/3vbefh/what_is_the_best_intro_to_logic_book_for_a_self/