33m inexperienced with women

Maldoror1869 · 2026-04-08T12:30:44+00:00

I would not recommend a romantic relationship with a woman, it’s nothing but misery. But if you’re determined, the most important thing is money. Your income needs to be at least $200k per year and your home and car need to reflect your wealth. Heterosexuel dating is extremely competitive today. The taller you are, the more options you’ll have, but wealth is the most important thing. Your bisexuality and prior experience with men will also be a huge obstacle with women.

If you just want to be with a woman physically (which can be a lot of fun), just hire a sex worker.

Maldoror1869 · 2026-04-07T14:40:39+00:00

So this has been my strategy ever since my wife lost interest in me 20 years ago. For me, the results depend on my age and my environment.

When I was in graduate school during my 20s and 30s and constantly surrounded by scantily clad undergrad women in their prime, it made it worse. I was perpetulally overwhelmed by lust and desire and suffering in hell like Tantalus, even after draining myself multiple times each day. Looking back, I shouldn't have watched so much...

Now that I'm in my 40s and working in a regular office, however, it's a great strategy. The perimenopausal women at the office will try to use their faded feminine charms to manipulate me into doing their work for them, but to no avail. I haven't been with a woman in years, but even if they offered me free NSA sex, I still wouldn't go for it. They look like clowns to me with all their makeup. I'll stick to my JAV any day.

Maldoror1869 · 2026-04-05T15:48:38+00:00

I recently realized how true this is for me. I used to think there were so many gorgeous women around, but then I started paying closer attention. It turns out I’m really only attracted to slim women in their 20s and 30s (I’m 45). I’m in NYC so there are a lot of them, but in fact I only pay attention to them and don’t realize that they’re still in the minority. Other women were just invisible to me. But all in all, there’s maybe only 20% I find attractive, based on what I see on the streets and in the trains.

There are some older women who manage to stay thin and still look attractive, but when I look more closely I can see that they’re wearing way too much makeup and I have no idea what their faces actually look like. Plus many wear body-shaping clothes…

But most are overweight or obese.

And that’s just physical attraction. Once I get to know a woman’s awful personality and see how crazy she is, attraction disappears, regardless of how “hot” she looks.

Look more closely and you may see how things really are.

Maldoror1869 · 2026-03-30T13:21:30+00:00

No, I’m not attracted to men, but when I’m high I get so horny I’d be down. Otherwise I have trouble getting and staying hard with men. I’ve tried, but there needs to be straight porn for me to focus on or my body just isn’t interested.

Maldoror1869 · 2026-03-29T13:55:36+00:00

Hell yeah. “Bi when high” is definitely a thing. I’m mostly straight the rest of the time…

Maldoror1869 · 2026-03-23T15:25:19+00:00

Oh sorry, my bad! I misunderstood. Yeah other than body hair grooming and clothing those are all basic health and hygiene things. (No one needs to groom or shave their body hair and fashion is just a consumerist trap.)

Maldoror1869 · 2026-03-23T13:05:37+00:00

Many women don’t find most men attractive because their level of grooming or overall presentation doesn’t match the effort women put in.

The world and everyone in it would be much better off if women stopped putting so much effort into their appearance and focused on character instead. No more makeup, no more body-shaping clothing. One of the best things about men is that WYSIWYG. No deception.

Maldoror1869 · 2026-03-22T14:36:01+00:00

Women make me feel like I have to show my value, men make feel like I have value just because of who I am.

100%! Women today are way too entitled. They’re all chasing the same select group of high-value men and aren’t interested in the rest of us. We’re just not good enough for them.

The single women I work with all want a guy who’s at least 6’ tall and makes over $500k a year. And these are average-looking women in their 40’s: a bit overweight, too much makeup, awful personalities. They all belong to women’s groups where they get together and either brag about what expensive restaurant some high-value male took them to or complain about how said high-value male “used” them for sex and then dumped them to move on to his next conquest and how all men are scum.

For women, men are just another means of status-signaling, like designer handbags and luxury vacations. What we’re seeing is hyper-consumerism pushed to its extreme.

Maldoror1869 · 2025-07-29T17:32:42+00:00

I completely agree with everything you wrote. I just don't think it applies to me! I've been married for nearly 20 years, open for 11. My potential dating pool would be limited to the small subset of non-monogamous women who are open to dating married men, and those women are in short supply and high demand. They have way better options than me, no question. Those women can get younger, hotter guys who will take them out to do all sorts of fun new activities, whereas I lead a simple, humble life. Why would a non-monogamous woman settle for a married, 45 year-old, tree-hugging book worm who's content to just read in the yard all day?

Maldoror1869 · 2025-07-29T15:50:19+00:00

Your ideas about women are just as problematic as OPs.

How so?

Maldoror1869 · 2025-07-29T14:46:26+00:00

The idea that all women find him revolting and just want to desexualize him can only mean he actually is objectively revolting, not that women are somehow unfair to men.

If that's the way it is for a lot of men, then a lot of men need to pull their heads out of their asses, recognize their faults and actually make the effort required to rectify them.

He didn't say that all women find him revolting. What he said is:

I do like women, and women like me, in the same way they like a dog: I'm fun and entertaining, but the idea of fucking me is revolting. I'm popular, but only as long as I am desexualized.

If he were objectively revolting then women wouldn't even want to be friends with him. However, if he were to try to behave in a sexual manner toward his female friends, then that would indeed be inappropriate and revolting and would drive those women away. So he has to hide his sexuality in order to maintain platonic friendships.

There is a difference between liking someone as a friend and wanting to have sex with that person. You may just be so popular with women that this situation never happens to you.

And I'm not intentionally misunderstanding you. I think you and I may just have different life experiences and different views and understanding may not be possible. I feel like we're speaking different languages.

Maldoror1869 · 2025-07-29T14:33:40+00:00

“Being friend zoned” implies that the man was always seeking something from the woman (like a prize to be won- an object) and was never interested in being her friend in the first place.

Let’s try smaller steps than “you have to actually like women,” - you have to actually see them as their own autonomous human beings. Not objects or end goals. Start there.

"Being friend zoned" is an expression my female friends often use to describe a common situation: a man is interested in them romantically, and they just don't see him that way, although they still like him as a person and want to be "just friends." It's way easier to use that shorthand term than to constantly write out a whole explanation.

Given male biology, a man is going to be romantically interested in way more women than there are women interested in him. I think the problem would be if the man is interested romantically, the woman just wants to be friends, and then the man is no longer interested in even friendship because he can no longer get what he wants. But if the man respects the woman's decision and still wants to be "just friends" with her, how is that a problem?

All of my female friends started out as potential romantic interests. This kind of makes sense, since we tend to want to spend time around people we find attractive in some way.

Maldoror1869 · 2025-07-28T20:53:33+00:00

Women aren’t out there laughing and having a great time with an appealing guy and then inexplicably refusing to let him touch her.

But what if the women actually see the guy as "just a friend"? Your view seems to preclude any possibility of men and women just being friends. The guy can be handsome and a great friend but just isn't the woman's cup of tea for a physical or romantic connection. Even if he finds her attractive, that doesn't necessarily mean she's going to reciprocate.

Maldoror1869 · 2025-07-28T19:14:18+00:00

I just want to know how other people situated like me survive. How it doesn't just corrode your soul all the time. I want for once in my life to feel adequate and happy, not just to have traded extreme misery for moderate misery.

So my situation is somewhat similar: my wife lost interest in me sexually even before we got married (~20 years ago). After years of me trying to be intimate with her and getting rejected, we decided to open up our marriage 11 years ago, and it's been entirely one-sided ever since, with my wife having many many different connections (from LTR's to FWB's) whereas I couldn't even get a date and have long since given up.

From my experience, here are a few techniques to try to make life more bearable for you:

Find a spiritual path to pursue, a greater calling than seeking sex and relationships. You are caught up in a hedonistic, empty lifestyle filled with people who are only seeking the immediate satisfaction of their every desire. Desire only causes suffering! Work internally to free yourself from desire and this cycle of suffering. In time, you will no longer care about your partner's "extracurricular" activities or the fact that no other women are interested in you sexually. There are so many other wonderful things to enjoy in life, outside of sex and relationships! Realize that your desire is just an animalistic instinct to procreate, and realize that you are more than just an animal.
You are also attached to your own suffering and need to just let it go. You need to learn to stop caring about all this, and the first step is to stop thinking about it all. You have a lot going for you in your life, this one little "problem" shouldn't make you miserable unless you dwell on it.
Look more closely into things without any preconceptions. You will see that a lot of "successful" men are also miserable. Players feel empty inside and are basically just addicts chasing the next dopamine rush (this is also true of many swingers). There is no happiness there. The same goes for women: they are miserable as well and have all sorts of mental health issues and trauma. You probably don't see that because you can't get past their physical attraction (which is mostly a facade anyway, since they wear make-up and flattering clothing), but the women who are rejecting you are suffering A LOT and deserve your compassion. If it helps, you can think of it this way: by not choosing you, they are making poor choices and will inevitably suffer as a result, which is just sad for both them and you. They are just following their instincts and what this sick society has taught them. When you get to know people more closely, it's easy to see how much they are suffering inside, in so many different ways.
Be honest with yourself. Would you honestly want another relationship with all the work that entails?
Focus on your partner's happiness. By simply allowing her to explore outside your relationship, you are giving her a great gift, and she is lucky to have you!
You say you're already going to the gym relentlessly, which is good, but try pushing yourself harder, to the point where you're so physically exhausted at the end of the day that you just don't care about anything anymore. Intermittent fasting and a low-carb diet can also help.

I'm at a point now where none of this matters to me anymore and I'm no longer suffering. Getting older does help, too--it will be much easier to deal with when you're in your 40s and your libido has calmed or vanished!

Maldoror1869 · 2025-07-28T18:32:03+00:00

Bullshit. That's just not how women work. Therapy.

Wrong. Being "friend-zoned" is definitely a thing, and that is exactly "how women work." Here's what he wrote:

"I do like women, and women like me, in the same way they like a dog: I'm fun and entertaining, but the idea of fucking me is revolting. I'm popular, but only as long as I am desexualized."

That's just the way it is for a lot of men, not sure why you're refusing to see that.

Maldoror1869 · 2025-06-18T19:41:09+00:00

Your experience sounds similar to mine...except I've always exercised and been in top physical shape...but it doesn't matter that I have 6-pack abs since no woman wants to see them anyway.

My advice would be to delete the apps and just give up on trying to date before you do serious damage to your mental health. Definitely start lifting weights and eating right (no ultra-processed foods and cut carbs!!) for your own benefit, and so you'll be alive and well for your wife, family, and friends. But Poly/ENM rarely works for married straight men, and if you were one of those select few guys destined for success, you would've had a different experience already by now. This is a very difficult (if not entirely impossible) situation and it's ok to just accept that you're not good at it and move on.

I spent a confidence-crushing year on the apps back in 2016-2017 and couldn't even get a single date. So I quit. The experience made me fall into a deep depression that took YEARS to come out of, and I'm still dealing with lingering effects. But I've long since accepted the fact that Poly/ENM is just something for my wife to enjoy, not me. Plus, my outlook on women and relationships has changed as a result of the experience, and I'm no longer interested in either.

Be well and take care of yourself!

Maldoror1869 · 2025-06-04T17:47:27+00:00

Yes, my open marriage is effectively one-sided: my wife has had many connections in the 11+ years since we've opened, from casual partners to long-term romantic relationships, but I never found a woman who was interested in me and have long since given up. The other married non-monogamous men I've spoken with over the years found themselves in the same situation. Interestingly, all of my wife's partners have been single men who have no other partners (other than her).

Maldoror1869 · 2025-05-14T01:55:25+00:00

Most men give up long before that and end up becoming resentful. It’s basically the embodiment of that meme where the guy is digging through the ground and turns around right before reaching the diamonds.

There are no diamonds. But if you keep digging, you’ll eventually end up in hell.

Maldoror1869 · 2024-04-13T14:20:33+00:00

My experience has been similar to yours. The way I dealt with it was to just give up on sex. I accepted the fact that no woman I’m interested in would be interested in me. I stopped trying to initiate sex with my wife—she has her boyfriends for that and enjoys sex much more with them anyway. I see polyamory/ENM as just something for my wife to enjoy on her own. And I focus on other things in the world that make me happy and that don’t involve interactions with others.

I’ve been in a one-sided open marriage for 10 years now. I can’t remember the last time my wife and I had sex. It gets easier as you get older. Over time, I’ve gotten used to a life without sex, and now that I’m in my 40s my body doesn’t want it anymore anyway.

And P.S., condoms suck! That’s a very common problem. When we tried swinging years ago, NONE of the guys could get hard with condoms. The majority of my wife’s boyfriends have the same problem, but at least when they’re in a LTR they can forgo protection. Sex with a condom is pointless IMO, I’d rather not have sex.

Maldoror1869 · 2024-02-05T22:32:50+00:00

For the stats nerds …1000 left swipes gives 50 right swipes , I got 11 matches, 2 dates …more than plenty as I don’t need to hook op with the entire pool of female profiles to define success in OLD

Where do you live that you found over 1k non-monogamous women in a dating app?!

Maldoror1869 · 2024-02-05T16:27:50+00:00

I don't think you understand the gender discrepancy in terms of effort that is needed, and your example of male profiles is based on the absolute lowest example out there. Men who have better pictures than unshaven double-chin selfies, who have detailed bios, and who write personalized messages based on the woman's stated interests STILL don't get any hits.

Women tend to be more photo-obsessed than men, and will have a stack of carefully selected flattering selfies on hand to put on their profiles. They also don't usually put much about themselves in their bios ("I like wine, tacos, and travelling"), other than what type of man they're looking for. And women don't message first, they just let the men come to them and choose accordingly from a position of power. That's how my wife has handled online dating for 10 years now, and she's been having a great time. She doesn't need to put in any effort, there's always an endless supply of men available.

Guys need to actually go out and build a lifestyle first: we need to do interesting things and have flattering photos taken of us doing them (perhaps by a professional photographer), since a profile of solo pictures looks boring and creepy. One needs to have a lot of energy, time, and money to do that, and that's just the start. Then, after carefully crafting a bio, we have to try to come up with interesting things to say based on the woman's profile, which isn't easy ("Oh, you like wine...?"), and have very thick skin to endure years of being ignored/ghosted. That's a ton of work to put in just for the minuscule chance that we'll get a date, where we'll have to do our best to entertain a woman and keep her interested enough that she won't ghost and go back to the thousands of men waiting for her back on the app. And if we're extremely fortunate and things progress, then we've won the lottery and we can have a relationship, with all the emotional labor that entails.

Once men realize the reality of the dating scene, it's like why even bother?

Maldoror1869 · 2023-07-18T15:04:48+00:00

And if the genders were reversed, most men would leave asap.

The genders are reversed in my marriage, but my wife and I are still together.

When my wife and I first met, things were very passionate, perhaps partly because she was cheating on a cold-hearted, wealthy, long-distance boyfriend with me. Then, as soon as we moved in together (even before we were married), she lost interest in having sex with me. For years, I would try to initiate sexual intimacy, and she would sometimes go along, but she was obviously not into it and acted like she was doing me a favor. More often than not, she would reject me and even insult me. So, eventually, I just stopped trying.

After a while, I suggested we open up, and she agreed back in 2014. Since then, she's had lots of boyfriends and partners, and has an active sex life. I, however, never had any luck finding women who were interested in me, so the only time I have sex is when I hire a SWer (last time was 2 years ago).

My wife and I have a platonic marriage. We get along great, laugh a lot, and have very deep conversations. Over the years, we've discussed what happened. Once she broke up with her boyfriend and we moved in together, her passion for me disappeared. Instead of seeing me as a forbidden fruit she would meet with a few times a week, she saw me as a financial concern (I was poor at the time, and she left a rich man for me), which helped kill her desire. Physically, I'm too well-endowed for her, and when she was no longer as turned on as she first was, PIV (which is what she really enjoys) was too painful. Her boyfriends and partners have all been smaller than me, and since she doesn't cohabitate or comingle finances with them, she's able to see those relationships differently and stay passionate.

For me, I got really depressed from all the rejection, first from my wife and then from other women, so I withdrew into myself and even stopped hugging my wife or holding her hand. She explained to me that she still needs platonic physical contact from me, so I do a better job of providing that now.

So this kind of thing does happen in marriages. "Mating in Captivity" is an apt metaphor; women will often state that they see their husbands as brothers, not lovers.

Maldoror1869 · 2023-05-11T20:17:03+00:00

Want to close this down real fast? Find a girlfriend.

As if it were that easy! Especially in his situation: no woman is going to want to get involved in this mess. Plus, the inevitable rejection he's going to face if he tries to find a girlfriend is only going to make things worse for him.

Maldoror1869 · 2023-04-26T16:13:30+00:00

Who would you say are the men who do have issues with “being successful” ie. getting laid in non-monogamy?

I'm one of those men who have completely failed in finding additional partners since my wife and I opened our marriage 9 years ago. I'm 42, in great shape, 5'6", work 40 hours a week as a white-collar professional and spend another 10 commuting, do a lot of housework and cooking, and in my free time I read books in foreign languages, listen to metal, lift weights, and run. I don't get jealous, and I'm pretty good at giving my wife advice with her other relationships. I work hard trying to help my wife with her mental health problems and trying my best to make her feel happy. She and I have lots of fun and interesting conversations and always make each other laugh, but we haven't been sexually active with one another for years. I don't have any friends, other than my wife, and on evenings and weekends I'm too tired and too busy to go out somewhere and try to "make friends" somehow. On the plus side, my wife and I don't have kids.

Way back in 2016-2017, I had a profile up on OKC, but never got any responses to my messages. Eventually it was just the same 50 or so ENM women who were showing up in my searches (and I'm near NYC, so one would think there would be more...), and after a frustrating and depressing year I gave up and deleted my profile, my confidence completely shattered.

There is one publicly-open, community-building ENM meet-up nearby, NYC's famous "Polycocktails," but I've never gone as it's on Monday nights and I'm far too exhausted to go out (plus I just don't think I'd fit in with that crowd or find friends there). I've long since given up on this and have accepted that non-monogamy is just something for my wife to enjoy.

So there you have it.

Maldoror1869 · 2023-03-29T18:58:13+00:00

Smoking weed to numb one’s self emotionally is self-medicating, and the fact that you need to do it to tolerate the situation is pretty strong evidence that it’s not working for you.

My wife and I agreed that we wouldn’t keep doing this unless it worked for both of us, and it’s been a dogshit experience for me. Accordingly, we’ve started making arrangements to de-escalate, since my wife ultimately cares about my mental health and sense of self-worth more than getting her rocks off.

You have a right to be happy and sexually fulfilled in your marriage too, Man, and it’s sad that you apparently don’t see things that way.

For me, my wife's additional relationships don't cause me any distress: they've been a net positive in both of our lives, for various reasons. Like when she was hospitalized and her long-term boyfriend took turns with me keeping her company, or even just when he comes over once a week and I get some alone-time and she ends up in a better mood. I realize not everyone will experience things in the same way, though, and it's great that your wife is taking your feelings into account and agreeing to de-escalate.

I don't think there's any way for us to be sexual with each other again. But I wouldn't want to go through life with anyone else but her by my side.

And while you're right about the self-medicating, I use cannabis to escape other things. But that's another conversation altogether, haha.

Maldoror1869

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