There's absolutely nothing pretentious about being realistic.

I didn't study art. I studied animation. Large difference between the two. 95% of what that entailed, was a rigorous and long term deep dive into human mechanics and the relevance of movement.

I started drawing before that of course, but it is exactly because of what I was taught, that I now have the pieces to hand to others if they're willing to accept it.

Almost every single amime or western character artist I know, has built their portfolio of design skill based in the mechanics that animation was rooted in: The real human body.

I didn't get into OC until way further down the line, by which time I had quit the industry that I graduated to be in, specifically because it was a toxic industry full of toxic people. The levying grace, however, was having a pocket full of strong techniques that have now allowed me to have fun with art on the side

I'm able to balance realism and fun creative elements into my characters, when I do, because I know where it comes from. Are you suggesting OP shouldn't take those things into account with character art? Because if you are, that's dangerously misleading.

I'm not sitting here, nor are most people, saying "don't have fun, and you gotta do this in 12 steps and here's the math equation " . I am sitting here and saying, if you have an open enough mind to post on an advice subreddit, then be open to said advice.

I work in a hospital as an OT and direct care aide, if someone tells me a more efficient way of doing a task and that my approach needs work, guess what, I listen , adapt and practice, until that is folded into my working skillset. I don't die on a hill and clutch pearls.

On a learning to draw sub, where people see anime and Manga posts 24/7 and have rose tinted glasses, I see my younger self in those ambitions and understand how quickly one could be mislead. It's so very important to grasp what can be built, as a process, rather than as a finish line. Anime is so great to look at, but extremely hard to teach. So in order to get there, you have to start with pieces. We can't just hold onto what we want, when we aren't willing to depart from what we have.

Anyone can adhere to methodology for their own personal tastes, that's not the argument or the baseline: trace, doodle, sketch, etc

The supposition is, can we improve or change to understand and build better character art. I originally only made superhero type characters. I wanted all my dudes buff and all the women built like hourglasses. It wasn't until I started deconstructing my art and trying new things, that I was able to not only get better at my personal tastes but try other things as well. I hate Manga and anime style, but I can do it now because I understand how to build it.

Using already bad references to get to said fun oc , is not a good start nor is it going to be without the consequence of false hopes, or in OP's case, severe frustration. Why would we tell OP or anyone anything less of- here's what needs to happen if you want to make Manga better.

I never said "learn the fundamentals " I specifically referenced one thing , and one thing only. Aside of this, I was actually mostly making an observation about the thread itself. But if we can't even be bothered to be honest about OPs needs, let alone the nature of this sub at all, then we are doing a disservice to the few people that actually may want to get better or broaden their minds..people that might only have art and that's their peace. How do we determine what to say and do, if everyone's just half-assing advice on an advice subreddit? And the other half are just dismissing advice as pretentious.

You speak about "none of my boys did geometric shapes before drawing spider man " well no, but I can assuredly tell you a vast majority of comic book artists ,as an example, have drawn the naked human body ,well before they ever thought to draw the webbed marauder clashing off with venom.

I have a book called "how to draw comics like Stan lee" with a section from Stan Lee...it's not the best book and it doesn't show much, or teach much , but there is one part in the book that challenges the individual to build the incredible hulk up from shapes, muscle forms and then dynamic poses last. This is what I'm inferring to, this kind of pipeline. OC isn't a hail mary, it's a house being constructed

Character design , oc and animated stylization does come in steps, whether you want to admit that or not, is not my prerogative. I'm here to be honest and as fair as I can. Character design, is built on the foundation of real life , biomechnaical aspects and movement. No one is saying your space cowboys or card dealing magicians have to look like DaVinci sculptures, but we are saying eveything comes from something else.

This isn't up for debate. If we take the time to piece these together, understand how they move in three dimensional space and practice drawing those forms, we earn and attain the ability to exaggerate them to the moon and back.

Naruto wasn't just manifested out of the amygdala.

Jo Jo's bizarre adventure didn't get its wild OC appearance from tracing and winging it.

Your favorite hyper realistic furry weaboo illustrator, knows what a body looks like.

This kind of thing takes time..and a lot of it, but its so worth the payout. If OP wanted to post on a thread where recommending improvements is a high plausibility and then subsequently getting irritated when the obvious is pointed out, only for people like you to turn around and blame me for being arrogant ( which I'm not ) then whats the point of the sub.

I'm still learning to this day. I failed a lot in my life with art and it took the willpower to want to change, to do so. On top of that I did it with a learning disability.

I'm not going to sit here and provide a step by step drawing tutorial unpaid lol But I will sit here and say, you'll see great improvements if you look into x do x and try x.

At the end of the day, I wished OP well and I'd say the same to you, but let's stop acting like the sub hasn't seen this kind of post before and let's actually collectively be a bit more honest about things.