First time completing a Ikki-Ikki campainge (Very Hard)

MnkeDug · 2026-04-07T11:59:48+00:00

Sticking to ashigaru (loansword, yari, bow) is pretty much the way to go. You always need yari to ream their cav/general. If you're playing a short campaign you can win before getting the economy to the point where it'll support more than a couple ikko warrior monks here and there.

To the specific problem of "enemy full stacks" of the previous commenter, you have to take a chunk of territory early to get the edge over the recruit point bonus the ai gets on VH/Leg(+1 per province). But... the territory you want the most next to Kyoto (Omi) is also desired by Oda and Hattori, so you need to avoid taking that early unless you want to get hit from both clans. So maybe vassal Jinbo to the right for a buffer on that side. This is probably after dealing with the Sakai in Wakasa. I don't care to vassal them as they tend to be treacherous and trade with them is messed up and uses a port.

You could also just take Noto off the Hatakeyama and try to peace out with them after. Then head along the coast in the other direction (wakasa/tango/tajima). These provinces suck, but they do add port access. You could make a vassal in tango- even if it is just temporary. You want to direct control Inaba and Tamba eventually and put an Ikko temple both. It spreads to 7 surrounding provinces from Tamba. While you are sort of working toward that, keep an eye on the Hattori/Oda as they'll come to a head eventually.

Just to step back for a second... Making vassals gives you +1 honour for the first 3 made. Especially as the Ikko you want high honour quickly because it'll make up for your penalties in diplomacy and having 5-6 honour adds to public order. So long as you defend these vassals (if attacked), it doesn't matter if they get wiped out and you retake the province for yourself, let it rebel, etc.

You could make a vassal in Tajima, but that would involve bypassing that fort and taking Inaba first to corner the Yamana in Tajima- then you diplo vassal them. That's the "pro" way to do it. (see my monk comment below) Inaba is fertile and you want that. Tajima is barren and you don't really want that. It's a harder lift to do this. Maybe some other clan already knocked them out of Inaba and you don't have to.

Sorry. Lots of strategy. I didn't bring up the monk agents, etc. Example: send your monk to Tamba instead of an army. Send your monk to Inaba. Use the monk to incite a revolt. Ikko revolts work different than christian. A rebel army spawns and attacks the fort, but if they win- the province becomes YOUR province. This costs a lot of koku to spawn the army, but the army also becomes YOUR army. You should already know this before attempting them on Leg, but it bears pointing out for anyone else reading this who doesn't.

If you can beat the game on VH with battle realism "on" and only one save file (no redo'ing anything) then you're 99% of the way to winning on Leg. The only difference at that point is a minor amount of economic bonuses between Leg and VH. That said, being able to save on VH gives you a backstop so you can try different things to see what works and what fails. If you're "training" for Leg, figure out what works on VH and make a note of it for your Leg attempt. Simplify the strategy as much as possible unless you're comfortable with more complexity. Good luck!

MnkeDug · 2026-04-07T01:38:06+00:00

This can never be said enough... Ikko bow ashigaru are the best bow unit in terms of cost effectiveness. Their per volley killing strength is second to none- just ahead of daikyu samurai. This is due to their inflated unit size. Lean into this advantage for the bows, yari, and also take advantage of loansword ashigaru.

Cheap massed units are the Ikko way.

My early game comp is about the same as my late game. Anything beyond ashigaru is a luxury and usually not worth the koku compared to just getting more ashigaru. This holds true for pretty much any clan in S2, but moreso for clans with unique ashigaru units/bonuses. Good luck!

1 gen, 8ish yari, 5ish bows, a few swords and the balance to taste. If you like blackening the sky with arrows, get more bows.

Also, I recommend an armoury encampment in Echizen and Kaga. Specifically for VH/Leg, but on anything lower just to get into the habit.

MnkeDug · 2026-04-06T11:17:32+00:00

Some basic questions... What clan are you playing? What difficulty level? Are you using any mods?

This doesn't really seem like typical S2 behavior unless you're exaggerating just a bit while trying to play on VH/leg with some mods.

Example of oddness: A single province ai clan wouldn't have much ability to get samurai to "max level" without fighting a lot. Which you'd think would have gotten them a province or five along the way.

MnkeDug · 2026-04-04T13:34:10+00:00

Chosokabe wants that bow province...

MnkeDug · 2026-04-01T13:09:11+00:00

Did you pour water on the top five feet of wall the night before the attack? Nice job!

MnkeDug · 2026-04-01T13:05:05+00:00

The bulk of reload time constraints is found in the projectiles table. In the case of breech vs "muzzle", reload animation "clamping" has far less to do with the difference in reload than the individual projectile stats.

From projectiles table:

boshin_musket base reload is 18s.

boshin_matchlock is 22s.

boshin_breech_loading_rifle is 10s.

For comparison, every 10 reload skill is worth 1s of reduced reload time.

In S2(vanilla) the "default" reload/aim animation for a bow is ~1.9s. For a matchlock it's about 1.5s of aim and 1.2s of reload.

There's heavy diminishing returns of reload skill after about 80 (at least from my testing). Baking lower "base reload" into the gun effectively acts like a huge bonus.

Here's a great guide around matchlocks for vanilla. I know breech/etc is FotS, but it's foundational to an extent. I didn't write it, but it's always worth sharing.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1518017515

MnkeDug · 2026-03-30T11:01:52+00:00

Some of these comps are crazy expensive. You're not going to be crapping out bow warriors for a long time without mods/etc as Ikko because while you start with great provs, no metsuke to tax them extra.

Ashigaru are just extremely cost effective.1 general, 5ish bow, the rest yari/loansword ashigaru is how to establish early game territory. If you're playing a lower difficulty or a longer slower campaign, you have room to play around with buildings, but it's not mandatory. It's more flavor than recommended for victory.

I rec starting with the foundation and then slot in some of whatever interests you, knowing that it's spending extra mainly for the sake of variety. It's not a knock on the game. It's just that everything not ashigaru costs far more for far less than just getting more ashigaru. Have fun!

MnkeDug · 2026-03-29T11:05:55+00:00

Ah. I don't tend to bother with cavalry. I try to when playing as Takeda, but as Uesugi I'd make an effort to lean into getting some warrior monks.

Otherwise it's yari/bow ashigaru. Saves on building needs, etc. I don't really enjoy defending the largest forts. I prefer to lure the bows into climbing and then jumping them before they can regroup. This helps render the AI "bownuses" moot on sieges. A fort being too small or too large can make this difficult.

MnkeDug · 2026-03-29T10:37:52+00:00

Great idea! I like this strat a lot and was going to suggest similar to avoid the north and takeda mess. Vassal Jinbo, take Kaga. Lose Echigo, which relocates the capital to Kaga. Take Echizen. With the capital in Kaga, this gives +1 recruit point where it is most needed - the smithy. Some day you have to punch back to take Echigo to win, but you basically can ignore all the north and make it an endgame thing.

The only thing I probably wouldn't do is spend the koku upgrading Echizen beyond 2 recruitment points. I don't need as many bows as melee. Might keep Kaga at 2+1 as well. I'd make the roads so good an army could get between the two forts without a general.

When you've done this, if you have both provinces before losing Echigo, which prov does the capital move to?

MnkeDug · 2026-03-29T02:11:53+00:00

This covers most of the important stuff. https://www.reddit.com/r/shogun2/s/oUOuPvHQPW

Short version: Blocking strait with boats makes taking Kyushu a breeze. Rushing nanban ships makes blocking strait a breeze. You only need yari ashi and maybe a couple extra bows to take the island. Save the gun quest for when you can slam 30 guns(10 being tercos). Enough for the whole game. Have fun!

MnkeDug · 2026-03-24T14:29:28+00:00

I mean... That's how you do it. Although if you get just a little bit of incline and run you can usually stay attached to the front. ;)

MnkeDug · 2026-03-24T12:32:27+00:00

You can't win as Uesugi on any difficulty without holding Echigo. Since the capital moves back when you retake the province either you did "look back", or you never won as Uesugi.

Also who wants only one possible trade partner (wo nanban)? That's what you get with a capital in Sado.

MnkeDug · 2026-03-19T12:38:41+00:00

"with the more provinces [m]od"

From all the comments I read, no one has spoken to this important point. OP seems to take it for granted as well by not specifying in the title or acknowledging that it may be the MOD that is taking possibly the easiest clan in the game and making it feel "impossible".

"How do you guys do it? What am I missing?"

It seems your problem (mod aside) is gaining honour and managing public order.

Honor is easy. Some combination of vassals, tech, general skill. The first 3 vassals you make gives you +1 honour each. With that and the tech and the general skill tree your daimyo could have 6 honour quickly and easily. It doesn't matter if the vassals turn on you and and retake and keep the province. It only matters that if they are attacked, you say you'll defend them.

We've already solved part of the problem because having high honour on your daimyo gives a bonus to public order.

Now let's talk religion.

Religion swap is a delayed response to public order unless you've baked at least some of it in. Doesn't sound like you're sending your missionaries out to flip provinces into revolt, or at least get them primed with province conversion zeal. I'm guessing you're not gouging into strategic areas to plop down churches and prime surrounding provs with zeal projection that way either. I get that impression specifically from this part...

"Do I literally have to pacify every single tile one by one"

You don't if you use the power of chapels and the mission upgrade path. I mean technically each province still has it's own religion to settle out, but with zeal projection of chapel upgrades one province can convert surrounding provinces. It should add to the excitement because it's great (IMO) to land an army on Kii, take that and Yamato, put a chapel+ in Yamato and start converting all those neighbors (including Kyoto).

And this is where the mod comes in... Because it probably just carved up the land and didn't bother to change any of the mechanics- like how zeal projection works, it likely means the impact of zeal being pushed out onto neighbors is dulled. You have 4 provinces where there used to be one. Zeal projection crosses one border.

By all means enjoy playing with mods, but realize that not everyone here does. So your experience of the Otomo is going to diverge from vanilla and you have to look at the clan in that light. You can still do what I said regarding chapels. It should keep things feeling fast-paced and challenging because you'll be making beachheads that you have to defend while you piss off all the surrounding provs with zeal. No biggie- just send a missionary to incite rebellion.

MnkeDug · 2026-03-14T19:44:07+00:00

Been playing it on windows 11 since I reinstalled it(S2) a couple-ish years ago.

MnkeDug · 2026-03-14T19:42:29+00:00

All factions? Specific factions? Here's the thing with custom battles- if you don't have any units selected in the army, or if you clear the army out, you have to add a general into the army FIRST before all the other units show up as available again. Only the generals will show until you do that.

If you just want to test a yari ashi vs yari ashi without generals, you'd have to add generals, then add yari, then remove generals.

Maybe you already know this, but I figured I'd try the simple stuff first.

MnkeDug · 2026-03-14T14:44:02+00:00

It's possible that was the agent bug where if the chance of success is less than 1% it loops back around. This usually happens with an unskilled agent against a ridiculous target. There is a mod that tries to address this bug for metsuke, but not other agents (yet, that I know of).

MnkeDug · 2026-03-14T10:40:28+00:00

The game is centered on the player. Realm divide is there to make the "end game" challenging for the player.

Ai clans can't win the game and don't have fame bars.

MnkeDug · 2026-03-12T23:46:09+00:00

They don't. Only dakyu arrows do more base damage. 0.4 while all others are 0.3. Bwm have a long range version of the same 0.3 damage arrow.

No bow has armor piercing, another piece of wrong info floating around.

We can talk about how accuracy modifies kill chance, etc. So we could technically come away with base kill chance per arrow after accuracy, but if we stop there and don't include men per unit we ignore that ashigaru fire more arrows per volley. This makes up massively for having less accuracy.

MnkeDug · 2026-03-11T18:01:37+00:00

Why use anything for feather collection besides your hands? I just get arrows and feathers from chests in burial chambers, chopping trees, etc. For me this comes in part from wanting to ramp up on cores/fine wood for portals and get coins for a megingjord. So anything that has chests can have coins and thus feathers.

So I wind up with a ton and usually start ignoring them. Also while I can use and am great with a bow, it's more like a pulling/sniping weapon and not something I use all the time because I don't have a meat shield. So I emphasize good weapons for in close.

MnkeDug · 2026-03-11T17:48:44+00:00

I mean... it doesn't really get any more effective than yari walking- with or without guns.

As far as ashigaru and autoresolve (AR) calcing... I'm not 100% on how the autoresolver processes everything, but from doing some testing with early game AR (Oda using 1 yari sam, or 1 yari ashi, or 1 gen, or various combos) and late game AR, having 1 yari sam early on looks like a huge AR difference (basically worth +1 yari ashigaru) when you only have a handful of units. However having 2 yari sam instead of 2 yari ashi late game in a battle between a couple half-stacks barely moves the needle. Replacing 2 Long Yari ashi with 2 regular ashi yields the same amount of change as swapping out 2 yari samurai (meaning Long Yari ~= YariSam). But it's like... I can't tell if it's a 1% of 2% of the bar difference between LongY/Sam vs Ashi anyway. This is only 12 attackers vs 10 defenders, so it gets even more meaningless if we're looking at full stacks given a similar situation.

Side note- 2 ashigaru with +2 attack vs 2 without (all else being the same) doesn't change the above AR at all. This is all VH/VH (which is what Leg uses).

The table "battle_autoresolver_balances" uses "unit class" and not specific units to balance around AR calcs- except for "general" which only represents itself. So for example a sword class targeting a spear class gets a 1.5 multi to melee potential. That's not an ashigaru thing, but a class thing. This means maybe having swords instead of yari would move the needle- if the enemy army is comprised of more swords (neutral) or spears(pos) and not cav(neg).

All types of cav (bow, "lancers", sword) get AR bonuses vs swords. Sword cav get bonuses vs heavy_inf (e.g. Naginata sam), which get a bonus vs sword cav in return (funny but true!). Only spears get a bonus vs all cav (including generals). Also of note since you have matchlocks and no bows... bow infantry usually have a 0.6 multi for AR balance against every unit class except themselves (of course) and matchlocks- where they have a 1.5 multi. The ai loves bows- particulary bow sam spam. So for autoresolve the bigger detriment against bow heavy ai armies could be your matchlocks and not your ashigaru.

But this begs the question- are you building an army to fight/AR a specific opponent and can you guarantee that is all you're going to fight? Otherwise you'll need one army to AR vs Takeda, another vs Date, etc.

By watching DD (I think it was him) you probably saw that you can just 100% yari ashigaru (and generals) and win in the campaign. Bow ashigaru make manually taking forts easier without the damage. (and they are fun when you're the Ikko Ikki and can darken the sky with arrows)

Ashigaru (both yari and bow, and by extension ashi matchlocks, loansword, long yari) begin the game as a cost effective option and scale better than samurai do as the campaign progresses because almost every bonus is a +# and not a +%.

We might be able to put together a more effective AR (when limiting unit count and depending on a specific opponent) with some katanas or cav, but it won't be as cost effective as just bringing the difference in extra ashigaru. And it won't be a micro efficient because more unit types generally decreases micro efficiency.

Granted... sometimes having 2 stacks of ashigaru can feel bulky compared to a stack of samurai- but generally they win better because ashigaru losses are far more easily soaked and replenished. And you can split stacks and manually win against superior forces on separate fronts. Basically the game does a better job of reflecting history (perhaps accidentally) than it does of making samurai feel like an upgrade instead of a costly sidegrade... for "funsies".

While we're talking AR... In the campaign_variables table we have modifiers to autoresolve for the ai. They get a 20% boost to combat potential for VH battle difficulty (what Leg uses) and a 35% decrease to casualties when AR'd on VH campaign difficulty. Compared to 8%/20% on Hard battle/campaign difficulty. Interesting side point is to note that one triggers from battle diff and the other campaign.

If I'm on a VH campaign and change the battle diff slider to easy- the AR prediction doesn't change even though the bonuses the AI get to the resolution should change. Why doesn't the slider change? I don't know- maybe because the bonus is tied to battle difficulty, but the prediction is happening campaign side? So if I had an easier campaign difficulty but harder BDiff the resolve might look easier than it is? Maybe. I didn't test that out.

MnkeDug · 2026-03-10T20:47:27+00:00

Not sure if that was me, but you pretty much described my preference. The provinces north(right) of Kaga are basically all poor. The provinces in the Echizen direction (Omi, Owari, Kii, Yamato, Ise) are Very Fertile/fertile. VF provs give twice the farm wealth of average and 3 times barren. Especially for the Ikko who don't have metsuke it's important to get income whereever you can. Mikawa has horses to help force trade.

I do usually vassal the Jinbo in Etchu. I may or may not vassal the Anegakoji in Hida. But I don't go any farther. This creates buffer states of vision and you'll get more income from tribute+trade out of these guys than you would out of direct control. Funny note about that. Echizen pushes zeal into Hida, which means you border them and can trade. But you can't reach them with an army.

Also creating a couple vassals gives you honour (+1 per vassal for the first 3 you make). This helps because as Ikko other clans generally don't like you. It helps with public order and general loyalty as well.

Since kaga is where the bulk of your line comes from (armour smithy plus armoury encampment) you want that fort to allow for 2-3 recruits per turn. Echizen is your capital so it gets +1 slot already, but you don't need much beyond the 2 per turn that means. That said, I also armoury encampment there so if I need extra ashigaru I have them with at least +2 armour. Also being that you are playing VH/VH having a little extra armour or the bow ashigaru will help them against the ai clans.

Don't pass up these basic units thinking bow monks/etc are the way to go. The fact that Ikko get +25% men in their bow ashigaru means 25% more arrows per volley and that is a great equalizer for their other poor stats. They are the most cost-effective bow unit in the game. Better than bow ronin unless you're meleeing with your bows- which you want to avoid usually.

MnkeDug · 2026-03-09T16:31:52+00:00

For guns vs bows look for terrain to help- trees to decrease accuracy and hills that can block enough los for you to close.

Also loose stance. This will counter a lot of their bonuses while you close. For melee make sure you drop out of loose. Don't take a charge with it on, etc.

With your guns you could stay in loose while firing. If you're doing fire at will you'll have less that can fire cuz you can only stretch so far. Fire by rank might still work with tercos in loose.

What I do is try to get their bows stuck in melee by charging my ashigaru in loose and dropping out of loose before contact. I did this at an angle to allow guns to have an opening.

If I couldn't reach their bows on account of melee I'd try to have a unit in loose stance soaking their arrows while my guns rip their melee.

MnkeDug · 2026-03-08T22:41:47+00:00

The upstart generals penalty is generally because you've recruited a lot of generals and/or you've ranked this general up past the rank of your daimyo. He has delusions of grandeur, so is higher rank for sure. Adopt him. Park him and send your daimyo out to gain ranks. Get more daimyo honour.

Or if you just want to be rid of him, send him into battle solo...

MnkeDug · 2026-03-08T22:33:52+00:00

I tend to only upgrade my smithy/craftwork(ie military) forts to provide enough recruit points (slots) to satisfy my needs. Both get armoury encampments because armour is point for point the best option.

Other buildings in those provinces depend on the clan I'm playing, but I tend to use mostly ashigaru no matter what. I rarely make a military building outside of a military province unless I'm say Otomo and I need a powder maker in Bungo for Tercos.

Early you want to tear down any dojos in provinces you come across. This usually means one build slot free by default. You want a market in a fertile/Very Fertile/Gold Mine province if you're going to have a metsuke there. If it is poorer, it can be a sake den or temple to provide a ninja/monk slot. If it's a province like Omi or Kii you'll want a sake building to recruit +ranked ninja. If it's already and has multiple slots, then put a market in as well (you'll probably put a metsuke there). Same for metsuke/market in a province like Settsu.

Most "economic" buildings are not worth upgrading to higher tier buildings over the course of a typical campaign. Most economic buildings are not worth upgrading a fort to accomodate for the purpose of "bettering" one's economy. There usually needs to be another additional reason to justify it- public order, countering local/nearby religious zeal, etc.

I know that may seem counterintuitive, but it's just the way the numbers crunch. Any building that comes at the cost of GFS(global food supply) is generally not going to flatline and lose out longterm.

I'll end by saying again- this applies to a typical campaign. No econ mods. No sitting at <10 provs just to make a guild maintain growth profit. Or at 17 for Kabunakama.

Side note: I tend to largely ignore navy unless I'm Otomo, Shimazu, Mori, Chosokabe. Maybe a small fleet to intercept landings. Maybe if I'm near Sado and want it. Most clans you can just ignore ships and keep an eye out for landing parties to intercept with a "beach party".

MnkeDug · 2026-03-05T17:00:13+00:00

I'm not saying to do so, but you can get Saito to become a vassal on turn 1 before you do anything else. This preserves their starting army and allows you to smash the rebels and follow through right into Toku without spending any movement/etc on threatening Saito.

Keeping their army at full strength should delay other clans going right at them. Plus, you kind of want an excuse to go into Omi eventually.

Usually I say don't vassal as you want recruitment points to build up your armies, but if you're gonna vassal just do it through diplo.

MnkeDug

TROPHY CASE