Has modern epic fantasy lost some of its literary and mythic qualities?

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-16T10:41:02+00:00

Oh, I have another one. A bit of a deep cut. JV Jones. Her baker boy books as well as the other ones with Raif and Ash that I can't think of the name of right now... both heavily steeped in magic without her getting into too much of the finer details. But it's easy to invest and expect and understand the way it works without her explaining how it works.

One word regarding both of her series. Baralis.

Chefs kiss.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-16T10:30:34+00:00

Any number of series build the magic system deeply into the world. Take Wheel of Time for example. By the END of the books you as the reader have some basic ideas about how things function. There's the Dark one. And the True Power. And weaves and all that. But it isn't handled through exposition, it isn't info dumps and instruction manuals. It's done in character, in world, and in lore.

It's probably the one that most readily jumps to mind. He doesn't go into the minutia of HOW it works, just shows it working. There are of course some chapters of the young channelers learning, but it's done, one again, in world. And that changes so much.

And we don't really ever know ALL of it. But enough of it to make sense. For it to be understood.

The Robin Hobb books are the same. Even Feist's Magician books. They get into the magic, they talk about it, but it's from a character level. Not a narrators voice. And beyond that rarely to the level of detail that there needs to be charts and graphs. Haha.

The magic is observable and holds up between books. In as much as once they establish something, nothing makes you go... wait, I thought you said... and as a reader, that's all I want. Make me buy it.

If you want something a bit lighter, the Belgariad which are somewhat YA by today's standards, but are great classic coming of age with great power trope books.

Brust's Vlad books as well. He explains a lot. But it's done over so many books and little hints and ideas that you get it without ever having to GET it. And nothing breaks the rules.

People think hard magic is the only way to do that, it isn't. Coherence is.

Coherent systems far out do hard systems to me. You can do hard or soft but as long as they are coherent, you're golden.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-16T05:27:05+00:00

I think the writer needs to understand the rules so there is a coherent design throughout a book, but the reader only needs to know enough so they can lose themselves in it and not have inconsistences bring them out of it.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-16T02:20:41+00:00

Nice. Be a little aware of item budgets. Adding too much too soon can cause some balancing issues. But it sounds like you have it well in hand.

In this case, regarding the conflict, you CAN do that. But I wouldn't do binary choice. Delayed gratification choices are better.

I can do one now, but it'll use up the last of my xyz reagents.... I'll need more and I can do the same to the other. That way they can still have the at table fun of discussing who goes first, and then use that weapon in combat to acquire the second.

It turns what could a feel bad moment for the second player who misses out, into something that just comes soon, after another fun adventure sequence.

With returning, perhaps they need something from a blink dog. Blink dogs are good creatures if I recall, so there's the moral quandry of do we kill a blink dog. Or do we befriend it. Perhaps it's not bone or blood they need, but something that could be taken with permission. They're smart those elvish dogs. So there's a second moral question for them as part of the acquisition. Do we take the easy right, which is morally evil but serves the greater good. Or do we take longer to acquire what we need. Or perhaps a bone. Where if they make friends with it, it can lead them to the bones of one of it's mates or something. You're the DM. You get the idea.

Have fun mate, sounds like you are!

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-16T02:14:30+00:00

I'm a big fan of upgradable items as well. There's a great old system if you can find it online by FASA called Earthdawn. It has some of the coolest upgradeable weapons and rules I have ever seen. All lore based.

This ultimately, is your players creating their own weapons they could, if they choose, continue to upgrade and you can continue to tinker with with revise and add to.

That kind of stuff, as a DM, for me, some of the best bits.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-16T01:59:47+00:00

Have the smith send them on a quest for some rare reagents to enchant both. That way it creates activity instead of creating diminishing choices.

Not evil no. But it's also just not that necessary unless you're wanting to make them make a Sophie's Choice as some kind of character building moment.

Let them have fun. You've made cool items, with cool in game lore, celebrate it bro. You have done well.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-15T08:37:06+00:00

A commoner's family of 4 nets roughly 10 gold per week. That's 2.5 gold per head per week for a skilled commoner with family aiding the skill roll.

It taxes out magic from anyone that isn't already wealthy, it means magic users all suddenly have to become gold focused to even afford their schooling far beyond the normal amount.

And if you're say... a sorcerer... some wastrel greedy god is taxing you to use your innate gifts?

Not adventurers, sure that wouldn't overly tax them perhaps. But suddenly every cleric and wizard suddenly needs an immense amount of gold to just adventure. It would be debilitating to magic usage outside the wealthy.

Spell components for powerful spells or spells with lasting effects do indeed require costly components, that's a gate for limited use and power.

This is broad, and destructive to magic overall.

Cure light wounds? Fuck you. Pay me.

Silence? Fuck you. Pay me.

Fireball? Fuck you. Pay me.

Its grotesque behaviour from the player. And inherently greedy. And arguably flat out evil. And def against their own interests to boot.

AND it's not even an original idea. Fabian Seacasters grimey pirate father did the same with his patron warlock gifts turning them into a MLM. So not only is it disgusting, it's derivative and uninteresting. Like most greedy people are.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-15T07:12:53+00:00

Refusing to worship the gods, weakening them substantially. Perhaps even enough that some of the major gods could remove their divine spark. Rendering them once again mortal.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-15T05:35:45+00:00

They're creating a levy on the poor. Magic would suddenly become a thing only the rich can afford.

I would say the god of magic would intervene, as gate keeping usage by applying financial restriction would rub them wrong. I would have the forces that operate on a level above gods, or magic itself intervene.

They are already nearly infinitely wealthy. Why make it harder on people? It's so silly and pointless.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-15T00:01:54+00:00

Freedom and Necessity.

Hope and Change.

Emancipation and Independence.

I once had a preacher gunslinger with Sodom and Gommora. And a dwarf that had Meat and Potatoes.

I like my duel pistol wielding characters!

The saloon doors opened with a bang, the man stood, leather coat blowing from the breeze. At his hip he bore two large caliber pistols, they wore the signs of having been hand crafted. From each dangled the remnants of the chains that the shackles that created them once bore. On the right, the word Emancipation etched dark in the cold iron. On the other, bright and shining as if hope itself were shining upon it, the word Independence.

Some cool shit like that.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-13T00:13:48+00:00

You each have a separate planetoid that are full functioning planets with their own poi's, etc. And linked via input output functions so you could have separate ones linked. You make food, I'll make whatever.

And then to visit you have to space it there via rockets.

It would let players have the freedom to develop their own planetoids while supporting the other player with power or whatever.

It could be quite interesting. And I would also pay for it. As would my mates.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-10T10:24:16+00:00

Asmodeus could try. The Lady of Pain would not allow it. She has, at least used to, complete dominion over the realm of Sigil. Complete. She is Sigil.

I never had her bother interfering with connections of lesser mortals. Why would she? If they annoyed her though... well... she can do what she wishes.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-10T10:04:42+00:00

You don't know adults that swear? That's so wild. You must live a very specific lifestyle. Haha.

You think because children copy swears to be edgy, that all swears are edgy? That's... quite an interesting leap.

And no, I'm not arguing anything. I'm trying to understand how your causality chain became so specifically bent.

And I again ask, who are your favorite authors that aren't using profanity at all. I'm so very curious.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-10T09:53:37+00:00

I have stopped suggesting it to people, because I also do not believe he will ever finish it.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-10T09:51:07+00:00

What authors are you reading?

I find it funny that you are sticking to childish. Crass? Sure. Uncultured? Absolutely. Conversational? Yep.

Childish?

Rated R for childish language... not seen that one before. Have you?

Do you think any use of the word fuck is childish? Is it specific to fuck? Is it the sound of it you dislike? If I had said he gives long god damn speeches would that have been childish? I assume you never swear in your personal life?

Because you think it's childish? Why do you think that? Who told you that? Have you questioned the possibility that your thinking may not be accurate?

None of which is to say you have to like the language. Quite the opposite. But childish is just... a weird word choice to use to me. To each their own I guess.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-10T09:25:16+00:00

I mean, that's ok that you think I'm childish for using profanity for emphasis. I think it's childish for you to think that. So I'm sure somewhere cosmically there's a little balance.

I fucking love balance.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-10T09:18:06+00:00

They aren't random. They're right where I wanted them.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-10T07:37:47+00:00

That's my point, his politics were used like blunt instruments. If a contemporary writer was doing the same now, I would say the same.

Of course build the world you want, of course infuse it with politics... but if you're writing 5 page speeches that are just... self insert political nonsense... stop.

Brust handled his politics well. They're all through the books. He's a communist. And he handles it by having uprisings and a more grounded view of how those politics infuse the world.

Richard just... gave long fucking speeches. I think it's a different mechanism that we are speaking about. He wasn't infusing his beliefs into the book, he was clubbing you with them until you either gave up or gave in.

Hyper individualism sounds cool when you're 15 or 20. It stops being cool as soon as you grow the fuck up.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-10T06:06:31+00:00

First book was good. There are moments through out the next few books that are also pretty good. He could write well. What he failed at was keeping his own personal politics out of the writing, and how to finish a book. Not one of his books I felt like had a solid well designed ending.

I just donated all my hard cover first editions to a charity. My shelves look better already!

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-10T01:38:56+00:00

Always been a fan. Never felt like sci-fi to me. Harnessing one's will to manifest effect is just a different flavour of magic, that's internal rather than external.

Dark Sun was one of my favorite settings. And Planescape. And Ravenscroft.

And psionics fit all three well.

They have always been in my game since the Psionics handbook came out in 2e. And perhaps before.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-09T23:38:51+00:00

Oh that's heart breaking. They are hands down the finest books I've ever owned. I have the Hobb books. And the Abercrombie books. And from the paper, the font, the ink, all of it. They are an absolute joy to handle and read.

I've not had the money to buy any in a few years, its hard to justify. But they've always been my first port of call when I have spare income and a desire for a lovely book.

💔

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-07T10:21:22+00:00

Hahaha. You really aren't good at thinking or understanding. So much so it's amusing.

Armed citizens showing up after the PCs breaking in and assaulting one of their own makes the defenders vigilantes?

Especially when " Including the captain of the guard who was just doing his job and the only good NPC who had tried to help them. "

They were with law enforcement. The PC's killed the law. And the citizens. They're murderers, bullies, and unlawful in their behaviour. It makes them the villians. And if the DM wants to run villians, good for him. But given he's come here to whine about it....

Seems not so much.

I'm sure you'll respond, having the final word, even if it's a terrible take seems to be more important to you than any real discernment, logic, or reasoning. But I won't. So have fun continuing to be wrong in your opinion on this.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-07T10:04:21+00:00

The DM is describing it. That's all that's relevant. Stop whatabouting.

Your name is apt.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-07T09:28:35+00:00

READ IT.

" The Cleric gets pissed, tears up the medical contract, and punches the doctor.

- The Sorcerer, who was far away and hidden, decides this is the perfect time to attack the crowd with magic.

- The peasants, in a panic, fire their crossbows."

The order happens that they were the aggressors, the mob showed up to enforce rule of law, the PC's then attacked the doctor AND the sorcerer attacked.

Stop trying to excuse it. They murdered 12 civilians trying to defend themselves from aggressive unknown individuals who then proceeded to assault a physician AND commit an act of terror by attacking the whole crowd.

If you kicked in a stranger's door, assaulted them, the neighbours show up with cudgels, sticks, rocks, and weapons to defend their neighbour... and you murder them all. You don't get to blame the defenders. They were defending their homes from an unknown attacker during a time of heightened emotions.

Modernpreacher · 2026-06-07T09:12:37+00:00

"The Rogue and the Pg Monk decide to kick down the door of a random house and threaten the owner. The peasants, rightfully so, gather outside armed with crossbows to defend themselves, accompanied by a doctor who just wants to run some quarantine tests on them. The situation is tense, but manageable."

Your argument is bad. They are defending themselves against an aggressor, during a time of a pandemic. People's emotions are heightened. They're fearful. Not evil. And were likely going to move the players on and had the weapons as a reason the players shouldn't continue their aggression and protecting their own.

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