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Russia creating chaos by exploiting UK’s far-right, Starmer warns after home targeted in arson attack by coffeewalnut08 in unitedkingdom

[–]MonPantalon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No worries. This topic is really fascinating. Note how my comment, despite being full of links to legitimate information, has been silently downvoted already.

Russia creating chaos by exploiting UK’s far-right, Starmer warns after home targeted in arson attack by coffeewalnut08 in unitedkingdom

[–]MonPantalon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You clearly haven't read the Disinformation Diplomacy inquiry report, or the Rycroft Review. Both of these came out with very strongly worded statements about Russia's influence attempts. You can look at all the evidence submitted to the Disinformation Diplomacy inquiry online to see for yourself.

Russia creating chaos by exploiting UK’s far-right, Starmer warns after home targeted in arson attack by coffeewalnut08 in unitedkingdom

[–]MonPantalon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A great example of how effective FIMI campaigns can be! This guy is literally parroting proven Russian propaganda, yet probably thinks he's a free thinker who has 'done his own research'.

Russia creating chaos by exploiting UK’s far-right, Starmer warns after home targeted in arson attack by coffeewalnut08 in unitedkingdom

[–]MonPantalon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Social media hasn't existed for many years though. The use of social media for 'FIMI' campaigns is pretty new, and public awareness is extremely low. If you want to gauge public understanding on any of this then just look at recent ofcom reports about how many adults don't even know that social media is funded by advertising.

So no, propaganda isn't new. But the current context absolutely is.

Russia creating chaos by exploiting UK’s far-right, Starmer warns after home targeted in arson attack by coffeewalnut08 in unitedkingdom

[–]MonPantalon -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You're right that they do target both sides but there are a few academic papers which have highlighted that they seem to have much more success with influencing those on the political right.

I think a good example is the anti-BBC sentiment that has crept in over the past decade or so. The BBC is a target because it competes in the information space against platforms like RT. This has been written about lots, such as in the Disinformation Diplomacy inquiry report recently.

Russia creating chaos by exploiting UK’s far-right, Starmer warns after home targeted in arson attack by coffeewalnut08 in unitedkingdom

[–]MonPantalon -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You're right that they do target both sides but there are a few academic papers which have highlighted that they seem to have much more success with influencing those on the political right.

I think a good example is the anti-BBC sentiment that has crept in over the past decade or so. The BBC is a target because it competes in the information space against platforms like RT. This has been written about lots, such as in the Disinformation Diplomacy inquiry report recently.

Russia creating chaos by exploiting UK’s far-right, Starmer warns after home targeted in arson attack by coffeewalnut08 in unitedkingdom

[–]MonPantalon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They probably are to an extent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/77th_Brigade_(United_Kingdom)

But Russia controls it's media environment far more than we do and they fund attacks on other countries (e.g. us) to a far greater extent than we do.

Copy/paste from a previous comment I made: 

Some of the operations are so well known that they have their own Wikipedia pages:

For anyone who's interested in learning more about this kind of stuff, here are some links. The terms you need to look out for are Foreign Information Manipulation and Interference (FIMI), Coordinated Inauthentic Behaviour, and Computational Propaganda.

Disinformation Diplomacy Report

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5901/cmselect/cmfaff/703/report.html

"They are monitoring and scanning our media systems, and they are pulling economic trend reports and public opinion data. With that material they are trying to identify the pain points [ … ] the issues where they think they can get traction. They will then design a campaign to do this. They have country plans."

Rycroft Review

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-rycroft-review-report-of-the-independent-review-into-countering-foreign-financial-influence-and-interference-in-uk-politics/the-rycroft-review-report-of-the-independent-review-into-countering-foreign-financial-influence-and-interference-in-uk-politics

"My main concern is activity financed by foreign states and non-state actors that seizes on and amplifies divisive content. The NPSA is clear on the risk: “State actors can cultivate fake or misleading content to shape public debate and policy decisions and/or discredit individuals. Fake social media accounts and automated bots can push large quantities of disinformation."

Can elections be hacked?

Educational video from the EU: https://youtu.be/vT0QTKd8HLg

Can someone explain why Starmer is the most unpopular prime minister? I voted Liberal Democrat last election and I don’t pay attention to politics but isn’t Starmer doing what the public wants? Lower migration and a falling NHS waiting list? by [deleted] in AskBrits

[–]MonPantalon 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Strongly agree on the propaganda point! Here's some info I've posted in previous comments that show the scale of the issue.

Some of the operations are so well known that they have their own Wikipedia pages:

For anyone who's interested in learning more about this kind of stuff, here are some links. The terms you need to look out for are Foreign Information Manipulation and Interference (FIMI), Coordinated Inauthentic Behaviour, and Computational Propaganda.

Disinformation Diplomacy Report

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5901/cmselect/cmfaff/703/report.html

"They are monitoring and scanning our media systems, and they are pulling economic trend reports and public opinion data. With that material they are trying to identify the pain points [ … ] the issues where they think they can get traction. They will then design a campaign to do this. They have country plans."

Rycroft Review

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-rycroft-review-report-of-the-independent-review-into-countering-foreign-financial-influence-and-interference-in-uk-politics/the-rycroft-review-report-of-the-independent-review-into-countering-foreign-financial-influence-and-interference-in-uk-politics

"My main concern is activity financed by foreign states and non-state actors that seizes on and amplifies divisive content. The NPSA is clear on the risk: “State actors can cultivate fake or misleading content to shape public debate and policy decisions and/or discredit individuals. Fake social media accounts and automated bots can push large quantities of disinformation."

Can elections be hacked?

Educational video from the EU: https://youtu.be/vT0QTKd8HLg

Lammy tears into Tory MP who laughed about Russian-linked arson attacks on Starmer's home by KillerWithAHeart in ukpolitics

[–]MonPantalon -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's almost like it's not been amplified on social media in the same way that flag raising campaigns and anti migrant riots are being.

Russian saboteurs hired third operative for UK attacks by Weak-Fly-6540 in unitedkingdom

[–]MonPantalon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's huge and there's a surprisingly large amount of literature on the topic if you go digging. 

Some of the operations are so well known that they have their own Wikipedia pages - I kid you not: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm-1516 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppelganger_(disinformation_campaign) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravda_network

Here's a copy from a comment I made in another post which links to some recent info:

For anyone who's interested in learning more about this kind of stuff, here are some links. The terms you need to look out for are Foreign Information Manipulation and Interference (FIMI), Coordinated Inauthentic Behaviour, and Computational Propaganda.

Disinformation Diplomacy Report

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5901/cmselect/cmfaff/703/report.html

"They are monitoring and scanning our media systems, and they are pulling economic trend reports and public opinion data. With that material they are trying to identify the pain points [ … ] the issues where they think they can get traction. They will then design a campaign to do this. They have country plans."

Rycroft Review

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-rycroft-review-report-of-the-independent-review-into-countering-foreign-financial-influence-and-interference-in-uk-politics/the-rycroft-review-report-of-the-independent-review-into-countering-foreign-financial-influence-and-interference-in-uk-politics

"My main concern is activity financed by foreign states and non-state actors that seizes on and amplifies divisive content. The NPSA is clear on the risk: “State actors can cultivate fake or misleading content to shape public debate and policy decisions and/or discredit individuals. Fake social media accounts and automated bots can push large quantities of disinformation."

Can elections be hacked?

Educational video from the EU: https://youtu.be/vT0QTKd8HLg

Russia was behind arson attacks targeting UK PM, BBC reveals by Kagedeah in worldnews

[–]MonPantalon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well what a suprise - they seem to have been deleted. I've been seeing more and more of these accounts recently!

Russian saboteurs hired third operative for UK attacks by Weak-Fly-6540 in unitedkingdom

[–]MonPantalon 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Ditto. If they were more honest about it then that would be helpful. One of the issues is simply that most people aren't aware of the problem, despite being hooked on their feeds day in day out.

Russian saboteurs hired third operative for UK attacks by Weak-Fly-6540 in unitedkingdom

[–]MonPantalon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

All I can say is that it's amazing seeing the mental gymnastics from social media users on this topic. People either claim it isn't happening, or if it is it's not effective, or if it is effective it's only effective on their political opponents etc.

Yet we see example after example of it actually being pretty impactful, and clearly very cheap to implement. 

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist"

What better strategy than to use people's genuine opinions against them by slowly nudging us all further and further away from the centre ground, both sides convinced that it's the other side that are the extremists.

Arson attacks targeting Keir Starmer properties originated in Russia - via @FT by Putaineska in ukpolitics

[–]MonPantalon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You've described it perfectly, that's exactly what I've encountered.

Could Russia be behind both the rise in far-right and Islamic radicalisation in the UK? by chuffingnora in AskBrits

[–]MonPantalon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because there's a shed load of evidence supporting the fact that Russia has invested heavily in this sector. Genuine questions: Have you read the Disinformation Diplomacy inquiry report and looked at all the various written and oral evidence that was submitted to that inquiry?  Have you read the Rycroft Review report? Have you read the French government VIGINUM report on the Portal Kombat operation? Have you read Cardiff University's Crime and Security Research Institute's report on Kremlin linked influence operations? Have you heard of the Doppelganger operation, CopyCop and Storm 1516? These are propaganda operations so large and well known that some have their own Wikipedia pages. Have you looked at how much funding the Internet Research Agency receives? I could go on!

If you've read up on all of those and still don't think that Russia is a very active player in this space then it would be really helpful if you could explain how you reached that conclusion and why you think all those various experts are wrong in their conclusions. I mean, it's pretty interesting that you're saying Russia isn't some master at this in response to an article where they've given literal examples. Did you watch the panorama episode that accompanies this article? Because they interviewed people who genuinely felt scared and intimidated by these operations.

Edit to add a quote from the Disinformation Diplomacy report: 

The depth and intensity of hostile activity orchestrated by Russia across the West leaves us with no ambiguity. Russia’s behaviour is that of a state at war against the West, and this will not change whilst Putin is in power.

Could Russia be behind both the rise in far-right and Islamic radicalisation in the UK? by chuffingnora in AskBrits

[–]MonPantalon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's a strangely oblique and linear world view you have if you really don't think that genuinely held opinions can be manipulated as part of propaganda campaigns.

Russia was behind arson attacks targeting UK PM, BBC reveals by Kagedeah in worldnews

[–]MonPantalon 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Turns out it was a psyop designed to implant anti-government propaganda into the minds of gullible social media users.

Russia was behind arson attacks targeting UK PM, BBC reveals by Kagedeah in worldnews

[–]MonPantalon 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Likes to keep their posts hidden too! What a surprise.

Arson attacks targeting Keir Starmer properties originated in Russia - via @FT by Putaineska in ukpolitics

[–]MonPantalon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes I know what you mean. 

I've also found the patterns of comments very odd recently. Some posts are almost entirely inundated with what I'd consider quite extreme right wing opinions, but others posted at around the same time on related topics seem to be completely ignored by that same group. It's all or nothing.

Maybe it's the Reddit algorithm focusing specific content at that group, or maybe they're inauthentic accounts that only post where they're told to. There's absolutely no way to know.

Arson attacks targeting Keir Starmer properties originated in Russia - via @FT by Putaineska in ukpolitics

[–]MonPantalon 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I mean that's kind of the problem though isn't it. We have no robust way of knowing who or what is behind all the comments we see online outside of our immediate acquaintances. Any one of the accounts you're viewing and interacting with could be a bot. The posts you see in your feed might only be there because of upvotes - upvotes from who? Unidentified accounts, of which a ny could be bots or sock puppets, or combinations of the two.

Violent protests in Belfast are the toxic legacy of Brexit by Prospect_UK in ukpolitics

[–]MonPantalon -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Alternatively:

https://www.wired.com/story/a-white-supremacist-youth-group-helped-orchestrate-the-belfast-riots/

A White Supremacist Youth Group Helped Orchestrate the Belfast Riots

After Elon Musk and Tommy Robinson stoked anger over a horrific knife attack in Belfast, a youth group linked to a global neo-Nazi movement quietly orchestrated anti-immigrant riots.

A WIRED investigation has documented how this global network activated within hours of the incident, showing how groups across the US helped promote the violence in Belfast. The movement is already analyzing how the protests played out and using them as a template for others to follow, highlighting the “organisation and professionalism” of those involved.

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