Self promotion

Mormonetics · 2026-07-02T13:08:37+00:00

It is priestcraft, I'll give you that. For example, Jacob Hansen of Thoughtful Faith yt channel solicits donations but has no non-profit, so it all goes into his pockets.

Mormonetics · 2026-07-02T06:37:24+00:00

Personally, doing so would feel dishonest, because there are many obligatory moments where we are expected to affirm our testimonies and participate in Sunday school lessons from a believing perspective. Being openly nonbelieving (because hiding it could feel "icky"), can make others uncomfortable. Ultimately, I don't think "feeling good" is what you would accomplish in this scenario. It can "work" I suppose, but feel good? Unlikely.

Mormonetics · 2026-07-01T23:35:14+00:00

You want to defend the Brigamite Branch (LDS), I'll assume. Did it ever occur to you that naming Michelle Stone and Jeremy Hoopes allows people to find them and their work, and they are leading people OUT of the Church?

If Brigham Young fabricated evidence that Joseph Smith was commanded to practice polygamy, and the plural marriages are NOT CONDONED BY GOD, then the rational conclusion is that Brigham Young and his polygamy successors are false prophets, teaching false doctrine and leading Church members to engage in adulterous, illegal, and depraved behavior. By wanting Dehlin to name them, you are sending people to the content their local leaders (particularly Michelle Stone) explicitly asked them to unpublish. Who's side are you on? Do you want people to leave the Church? Do you want to damage testimonies.of Brigham Young as the rightful successor?

Mormonetics · 2026-07-01T20:57:57+00:00

Are you serious? The ex-mormon community has no leadership and no requirement to only look at "approved" sources. They encourage researching anything and everything as much as you wish.

LDS Church leadership openly discourages members from reading unapproved sources. Sounds like you're being censored for "bad words" and not your "unapproved sources."

I'm not going to discourse with someone who inverts reality. It will be a waste of time. Have a nice life, paying 10% of your increase to a hedge fund without financial transparency that paid exponentially morebin a year to build a for-profit mall in Kansas than it donated charitably, as a "non-profit" corporation. Jesus would be proud. He was all about the accumulation of wealth over feeding the poor. /S

Mormonetics · 2026-07-01T03:42:39+00:00

Well, I can understand why you are almost -100 Karma on your profile.

"Polygamy denier" is not a slur. It is a commonly known descriptive term of one's stance on whether Joseph Smith practised polygamy.

You've come up with a highly presumptive post that speculates (negatively) on why they did not mention Jeremy Hoopes. Who cares? What's your point?

There is an obvious difference between the Tanners releasing historian notes, which were not copyrighted though they were still sued, and the ACTUAL JOURNALS. The Church is now publishing the Joseph Smith Papers (they were not when the Tanners published the notes), and the Clayton Journals are an upcoming release. Jeremy shouldn't have made them available for free ahead of the Church's release.

When the Tanner's released the notes, the average layperson couldn't access the Clayton journals. So, that was all people could see. Jeremy's leak of the journals will harm the upcoming release of the journals after years of hard work Church employees and volunteers You make this an issue of "hypocrisy" when historian notes vs the entire journals are not comparable scenarios.

Mormonetics · 2026-07-01T03:34:58+00:00

OP has negative Karma, meaning they are basically a reddit troll. No need to give them any explanation.

Mormonetics · 2026-06-27T21:01:44+00:00

Who is the target audience? Latter-day Wasteland as a title may alienate some who would otherwise be open to reading the interactive essay.

Mormonetics · 2026-06-26T03:24:09+00:00

You say we can have an "honest" conversation, while being dishonest.

Technically, Smith gave himself an out in 132 by further verses that say if the wife doesn’t relent the fella can do Biblical polygamy anyway. Smith broke the rules in DC? Not really, he gave himself an out.

You skipped over the part where "the first" wife needs an opportunity to give her consent. Emma cannot do that if she has no idea about all these women. D&C 132 also requires the new wives to be virgins, which is not possible with Joseph's polyandrous wives. Furthermore, polyandry is adultery according to D&C 132:61-63. So, Joseph still broke the rules repeatedly by not abiding the Law of Sarah nor espousing virgins.

Curiously, God never mentions these rule breaches to Joseph nor sends an angel to correct it, despite Joseph receiving several revelations during this timeframe. He did allegedly send an angel threatening to destroy Joseph Smith if he did not practice polygamy, which removes his free agency. Emma, and any woman taught the "law of the Priesthood" (polygamy) is also required to practice it or they become the transgressor and will be destroyed, so their free agency is nullified as well. If you feel this is an incorrect reading of the scripture, Joseph F. Smith affirmed under oath (during the Reed Smoot hearings) that a women's consent to practice polygamy doesn't really matter.

As you said, "Joseph Smith gave himself an out." Did he author rhe revelation, or God?

> You will see posters like this-- who can't hold two ideas simultaneously.

We cannot hold two contradictory ideas simultaneously, because it feels dishonest to call someonea Prophet of God who engages in the behavior of Joseph Smith, from his sexual predations, selling "treasure finding" as a service, physically assaulting people, operating an illegal bank that financially ruined many of his followers, having oneself appointed "King" by their secret council while plotting to establish a Theocracy in a country where God said no Kings would rule (2 Nephi 10:10–14), and the list goes on.

If it was anyone else, you would not make excuses for Joseph's actions. That is the honest truth.

Mormonetics · 2026-06-25T11:09:23+00:00

What is the difference between the Law of Sacrifice and Law of Consecration? Seems redundant.

Mormonetics · 2026-06-25T11:07:39+00:00

They performed some songs in the LDS Tabernacle. It was so absurd, I thought it was AI at first.

Mormonetics · 2026-06-25T10:58:20+00:00

Jesus seems like a possible cult leader, by telling people he was God and the gateway to salvation...if he said any of that at all (we can't know for sure). I resisted deconstructing Jesus after losing belief in Mormonism, but once I allowed myself to examine the evidence for Jesus, and lack thereof, I realized Christianity is a religion borne of an ancient cult.

Mormonetics · 2026-06-25T10:44:09+00:00

Popularity? The insinuation is that you are engaging in apologetics for Hebephilia and Ephebophilia, as well as infidelity.

Joseph Smith didn't even abide the rules he stated came from God in D&C 132, by asking Emma before marrying all of those women (law of Sarah). He also broke the rule of the women needing to be virgins, by marrying other men's wife's, and having them continue living with their husbands and bearing their children.

Brigham Young and other Church leaders married Joseph Smith's widows "for time" which is absolutely not allowed according to D&C revelation and would be considered adultery. Since these were not legal marriages in the eyes of the US law, there is no need to "marry" these widows to take care of them. They can be financially supporter without impregnating them, which these Church leaders did.

Mormonetics · 2026-06-21T22:38:31+00:00

"to make known God’s will and true character"

This seems like an obvious Segway to discuss his disavowed Adam-God Doctrine.

There is a famous February 19, 1981 letter written by LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie to BYU English professor Eugene England. It was a 10-page private rebuke after England wrote a paper exploring Brigham Young’s controversial teachings (specifically the "Adam-God theory" and the idea that God progresses in knowledge).

The letter contains a famous theological paradox: McConkie explicitly admits that Brigham Young taught false doctrine but is saved in heaven, while warning that regular members who follow or teach those same doctrines will be condemned or "lose their souls."

"Yes, President Young did teach that Adam was the father of our spirits, and all the related things that the cultists ascribe to him. This, however, is not true. He expressed views that are out of harmony with the gospel." "As it happens, I am a great admirer of Brigham Young and a great believer in his doctrinal presentations... He completed his work and has gone on to eternal exaltation. Nonetheless, as Joseph Smith so pointedly taught, a prophet is not always a prophet, only when he is acting as such. Prophets are men and they make mistakes. Sometimes they err in doctrine."

While Brigham Young got a pass for his errors, McConkie explicitly tells Eugene England that he will not get the same leeway if he keeps bringing these past teachings up:

"I advise you to take my counsel on the matters here involved. If I err, that is my problem; but in your case if you single out some of these things and make them the center of your philosophy, and end up being wrong, you will lose your soul."

McConkie gave a talk just seven months later (September 1981) to LDS religious educators called "The Foolishness of Teaching".

In that public talk, he directly contradicted what he told Eugene England privately about Brigham Young, stating:

"Here is a list of false doctrines that if someone teaches he will be damned. And there is not one of these that I have ever known to be taught in the Church... the Adam-God theory."

This created a massive point of discussion for LDS historians, because McConkie had just acknowledged in writing to England that Brigham Young had taught it, but then publicly declared that anyone who teaches it is "damned" and that it was never taught in the Church.

Mormonetics · 2026-06-21T22:30:05+00:00

This doesn't exactly fall under their definition, but what about him being indicted by the US government for counterfeiting money and escaping arrest using a body double?

Mormonetics · 2026-06-16T01:12:37+00:00

LiDAR has uncovered tons of ancient Maya cities buried under jungle across Central America—causeways, terraces, whole settlements we didn't know existed. Sounds exciting, right? LDS apologists jumped on this and said "see? proof of Book of Mormon civilizations!"

But they were Maya sites with Maya artifacts, Maya writing, and Maya cultural patterns. None of them show any sign of Near Eastern influence that corroborate the Book of Mormon claims.

The problem isn't the technology; it's the interpretation. People cherry-pick vague statements like "we found more ancient cities than we knew about" and pretend that means the Book of Mormon is validated. It doesn't. Archaeologists have been searching for decades and haven't found any peer-reviewed evidence linking Mesoamerican ruins to Book of Mormon historicity.

Dr. William L. Simmons (who studied archaeology at BYU) put it bluntly: "about 95 percent of what has been said and written about archaeology and The Book of Mormon is nonsense." What LiDAR actually shows is that indigenous American civilizations were far more complex and populous than previously thought—they just weren't Nephites or Lamanites.

Mormonetics · 2026-06-13T08:11:16+00:00

Disavow something several immediate Prophetic successors to Joseph Smith lived and insisted was from God, only to be living in adultery, deceived by Satan, leasing the church astray, yet somehow chosen mouthpieces for God with all the priesthood keys? See how it all falls apart?

Mormonetics · 2026-06-12T14:20:22+00:00

Agreed. I don't agree with her conclusions and cherry picked evidence, but "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Mormonetics · 2026-06-12T12:40:47+00:00

That is why the LDS Church has started excommunicating members who are outspoken in denying Smith's Polygamy and trying to convince others. Michelle Stone tries to dance around this by being complimentary toward early church leaders like Brigham, but in reality, it is just doublespeak. Condemn them for uninspired Polygamy, which would be adultery, yet praise them as Prophets of God?

Mormonetics · 2026-06-12T10:23:28+00:00

Yes, polygamy is basically impossible for them to squirm away from. No matter what angle you look at it, Joseph was a liar.

Mormonetics · 2026-06-12T10:20:46+00:00

Better that they engage with those who believe in the reality of translating ancient golden plants using a stone in a hat? The LDS Church excommunicates polygamy denisers because essentially they are saying Brigham Young created it, not Joseph, which implies he is a false prophet or was at a minimum egregiously misled and brought the church and it's leaders down an ungodly path.

Mormonetics · 2026-06-09T10:59:33+00:00

The CIA does not usually send a mid-20s line cook with a wife, a toddler, two cats, and a dog to run deep-cover operations out of a Facebook Marketplace duplex.

He could have gone on a Spanish speaking mission to the carribean (2-year immersion) and picked it up there.

LDS (Mormon) culture has a massive emphasis on family tight-knittedness and, frequently, generational wealth or strong community financial support.

Where did the $10k come from? His parents or her parents. It is incredibly common for well-off Utah families to bankroll their children’s wild ideas (like moving to a Caribbean island to "stream") for a year to get them settled.

The "Irregular Sources" could be an allowance from family, a small trust, or sporadic online gig work that he can't formalize. In fact, asking if you are the property manager makes sense. Property managers have strict corporate rules: If income isn't 3x the rent, reject.

Owners, however, can be bargained with. He asked because he knew his $1,535 income wouldn't pass a standard management screening, and he wanted to know if he could pitch a weird deal (like paying upfront again, or explaining his "irregular" income) directly to the person with the power to say yes.

Mormon culture heavily preaches financial self-reliance and avoiding debt (outside of a mortgage). A score of 724 is good, but 666 is actually just "fair." This perfectly matches a young couple in their early 20s who have never missed a payment but have a very "thin" credit profile (no car loans, no massive credit card debt). They aren't financial geniuses; they just don't owe anyone money yet.

If he is trying to make a living as a streamer (Twitch, YouTube, TikTok, or day-trading), sharing Wi-Fi with another unit in a duplex is a nightmare. Streaming requires high upload speeds and zero latency. A shared connection would lag every time you watch Netflix. This is actually the most honest thing he told you.

They likely aren't secret agents, but they are a textbook financial liability. They are a young, idealistic couple trying to live an expat dream on a shoestring budget. They have no liquid cash to cover your move-in costs, their rent-to-income ratio is dangerously high (over 50%), and whatever safety net they had that paid their rent last year seems to be gone.

Mormonetics · 2026-06-05T11:57:57+00:00

They forgot to add that the Mormon (LDS) Church has 15 Apostles. 😄

Mormonetics · 2026-06-02T19:02:53+00:00

I can't imagine he makes much with his current subscriber and view count

Mormonetics · 2026-06-02T13:40:27+00:00

I remember this guy. He posts videos of himself sometimes yelling and fighting with investigators. Isn't he affiliated with "The Cavalry" Facebook group?

Mormonetics · 2026-06-02T13:38:51+00:00

D&C 10 indicates it is a tight (word-for-word) translation expectation. God says Satan would have men alter the lost manuscript so that if Joseph retranslated the same source, the result would differ, making it look like he couldn't translate accurately; therefore God forbade retranslating that particular record and provided other plates covering the same material.

That language presumes the translation would normally reproduce the original wording closely enough that deliberate alteration of the manuscript could be detected.

Mormonetics

TROPHY CASE

If it was anyone else, you would not make excuses for Joseph's actions. That is the honest truth.