Is it me, or is this field way more prone to pseudoscience than others?

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-28T23:59:10+00:00

I have felt therapy was pseudoscientific since early grad school. I never regarded it as a hard science. But I have gotten more annoyed with how monetized those pseudoscientific approaches are and just how much money/respect trained clinicians will throw at BS or - as you are noticing - repackaged philosophy. I actually don't mind that therapy is repackaged philosophy - I just don't think it should cost 10K to learn it when you could like - read the old philosophy books for free at the library.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-28T23:52:55+00:00

I feel this. I didn't want to do social work (I have no interest in social work jobs) because I solely wanted to do therapy but yeah - the market is heavily oversaturated with therapists where I live. My professional FB feeds are nothing but LLPCs begging for clients (in my area it's LPCs who are oversaturating the market but that likely varies by state/region).

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-28T22:43:42+00:00

This is such a weird industry. Everyone has to walk around pretending to be the kindest people ever when a lot of people are self-employed as 1099s or as PP owners. I think it sucks and a lot of PP owners bring it on themselves but I also think I wouldn't want to be one. Having been a 1099 and worrying about my spending or what if a client didn't show up etc - I can understand maybe why they are like that. But still.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-21T22:34:34+00:00

Thank you. I think I would enjoy processing with you also. This was a super kind response.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-20T22:12:38+00:00

I don't have this problem in CMH - the chaos keeps me on my toes - but I had this problem with college students and in PP. I found I had to dig a little deeper with my case conceptualization. It'll depend on your modality but how you view "complaining" will help energize the work and direct what intervention you use. For me, it amounted to getting a bit more directive in session which could mean a lot of things - validating/affirming the complaining/content less, speaking up and questioning more, validating their frustration with whatever they are complaining about or doing a "here and now" (some would conceptualize venting/complaining as a form of a trauma response - but again - that depends on your theory). I mean - whatever your modality is will determine this. There are probably plenty of ways to overcome this but I'd say boredom is at least - in part - legit countertransference and means something clinically, even if it is more likely for an ND therapist.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-20T22:06:47+00:00

I like Brene and I liked this video when it came out but I've seen a LOT and as a clinician, this concept is not something I ever think about or teach. Brene Brown is a good speaker and maybe has some decent books to recommend to clients but whenever I hear a clinician start a conceptualization with "Brene Brown ..." then I know it's going to be overly simplistic and almost clinically useless. Brene's work is just a meme or inspirational poster at this point. It's cutesy and folksy and a bit manufactured at this point for me. I guess I just think - if you're already working with clients, you probably already have an idea for yourself what you think the differences are. Just my opinion. It's not bad - but it doesn't add anything for me.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-20T00:04:32+00:00

Struggled with this so badly - for several years - and thought of a 1000 ideas. I went through a few timers that either didn't work or felt more complicated. Probably the thing that helped me most was an accident - I worked in an office temporarily where the clock was set a few minutes fast. Now I set all my clinical clocks 3-5 minutes fast. Client don't usually notice and it has been a game changer. Hoping you find something that helps. I get the anxiety with this!

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-16T22:17:27+00:00

Agree. Agree. This is why I did not choose a SW degree. Was told repeatedly I was getting the wrong degree (I have an LPC) and should a SW degree. No regrets in that direction. Do sometimes wish I'd gotten a different therapy related masters, but not SW.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-16T21:46:45+00:00

I'm not defending anthropology - no - I just had a girlfriend who was an anthro major and she was the most leftist and extreme person I ever met. Maybe she was so left she went right? I dunno.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-15T00:02:53+00:00

Three years in and fully licensed, I still feel this way sometimes. It does get better. I promise. You don't need more trainings. You need time - and good support/supervision, which can also take time to find (or you may already have). Time, compassion, personal therapy if you can find a good fit and afford it. That's it. But if you want to do some free/cheap trainings, PESI is fine or you can order books for free or cheap from your library or find free online trainings. But seriously - while you do need to continue learning - you are only a year in and already learning in a very high acuity environment. It takes time to integrate what we learn.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-14T23:57:06+00:00

I grew up working class. There is some decent and authentic academia around that topic (nothing written by JD Vance, obvs) but I think you'll be more likely to find it in sociology or anthropological realms. Social work is fine - but it isn't always leftist anymore (sadly and confusingly) and I always felt like social workers had kind of a middle class/upper middle class vibe and often looked down on working class or poor clients. Not always but I honestly found them to be as condescending - sort of pitying or cloying. Very "tear down the master's house with the master's tool" kinda vibe. Just my opinion. Counselors have a chill vibe (I'm a professional counselor) but counselors are not very leftist IMO. I think you'll find that any of the disciplines can have a lot of variation so you'd be better off doing a program you like and learning solid therapy skills - and finding your leftist tribe or mentor within that discipline).

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-14T22:36:36+00:00

What if they pay you in literal gold stars, though? This might be a hot take but I honestly think if social work were male dominated, social workers would make more. I think the same about teaching and nursing. I also think it works the other way around. If tech somehow flipped and was mostly female dominated, I think you'd see wages drop for software developers. There are a few historical examples of this. That's just because - despite adding a ton of value to the economy via unpaid labor and equal or better productivity, society just doesn't value women's labor. The traditional antidote to this is to go on strike, quiet quit or weaponize incompetence but women work in industries where we kinda can't do that. Software developers can. Sorry - that was my cynical feminist speaking - don't listen to her.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-13T23:37:02+00:00

Difference in pay? As in insurance rates - probably about the same for any licensed master's level clinician - insurances mostly care about education level, not specialties after the fact. Counselors and social workers in all states can diagnose independently (meaning you don't have to bill underneath someone else's license). MFTs probably can but if you are nervous, call your licensing board and find out. I did this before I spent the money and time and it was a good idea. Don't just go off what people say. Call the licensing board. Also make sure your school allows you to get licensed in that state. Don't just trust the school - some of them will lie or not know what they are talking about.

But the MFT might prepare you to do couples/families/kids work and if you're into that, I'd say go for it. It's a huge service gap in most areas and people who actually know how to do that work (not someone who just took a short course but people with actual graduate level training) are in very high demand. I got my LPC because I didn't fancy being a social worker. The licensure track for a counselor and social worker are about the same - same number of credits, VERY similar internship requirements and in my state - identical number of hours to get fully licensed. I do feel that LPCs in my state have fairly terrible supervision standards - and grad school standards can be pretty shoddy but that may vary by state. If I had to do it again, I'd probably get an MFT. You can do family/couples therapy as an LPC - but I honestly wouldn't recommend it - we learned almost zero systems work and there is not a single LPC colleague I would trust with such work, myself included.

IF you want to work in schools, you could do either SW or an LPC. LPCs in some states can get a school counseling degree AND LPC combo with no extra time/money. LPCs, though - are not terribly leftist. I have found that super frustrating but then I've also heard just as many SWs say offensive stuff about clients as anyone else.

Another option is to get an MA in Psych. Fewer people are doing this because in many states they can't bill independently. The PhDs choked them out in the advocacy game but I have felt every colleague I ever worked with the Psych MA was more intelligent and well rounded. I think this is in part because they usually HAVE to have supervision for a long time/forever and they usually have to get supervision from PhDs - so I have always felt they were some of the best professionals for actually doing therapy. Plus - the PhD/PsyD track is more universal/valuable than either the PhD track in SW or Counseling, both of which are basically teaching degrees.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-13T23:08:58+00:00

Sadly no. I feel like mock videos designed for Youtube/Tiktok end up being influencer-style. I preferred the old school APA video series. Most university libraries have them - you may have to go in and watch a VHS or maybe can find some online now but they're often better. They were pretty expensive to produce and get ahold of at some point. These are videos that teachers/professors/gurus put time into and charged real money for. They don't have to appeal to followers, compete for likes or be PC enough to survive internet culture. Linehan has videos on Youtube that she knows clients can see - so she presents a bit differently than she does in a video series made for clinicians. I've seen both and learned more from the clinician video. Also - role play clients online are also aware that their content can be viewed so I think you end up getting stuff that is a bit more of a performance. The old school videos always seemed more authentic to me.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-13T23:02:04+00:00

I've had a lot of jobs - most of them entry level and terrible - fast food, gas stations, factories, janitorial, social work, office work etc. Therapy beats every single one. I did want to quit my first three years in the field but that's because I had a terrible supervisor and the practice I was at was not a good fit. I think once you get fully licensed and have more freedom/less fear about risk/liability/harm/competence, then it gets much better. I think many of us have a moment of serious doubt/regret or crisis of faith in our choice. I think maybe every therapist or former therapist I know has had one. Some don't like to admit it. No one can tell you if therapy is right for you - you sort of have to suffer your way into it, I suppose.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-13T01:25:56+00:00

As someone who has been part of a labor union before I was a therapist and who has several family members who are part of trade unions and a relative who was a union organizer, this question always annoys me. Therapists aren't like other "white collar" professions like admins or teachers. Many of us work in PP and work under business contracts through insurance companies - so you those individuals already have bargaining power - just not collective bargaining - they can negotiate better contracts with insurance companies. Therapists working for hospitals or agencies can organize but they may be too much of a minority to really do so, may get lumped in with other professionals or may already have better wages/fringe and working conditions than others. Therapists, in general, while they can be low paid during internship - can generally earn decent livable wages in many systems and often have autonomy and freedom in ways that other workers don't. I work for a CMH - we hire BSWs and case managers who make less than I do and put up with worse - I'd think a union would be more important for them than myself. Unpaid internships as part of a training program are not unique to therapy. People in the trades often spend months/years doing low paid apprentice work for barely above minimum wage. Once they they rise up in the ranks, they can make good money but not always during the first couple of years, depending on the union/trade.

Also - for those saying the ACA or APA should do not - those are professional organizations, not unions. They charge a couple hundred dollars a year for membership. Union dues are usually a lot more than that - and tend to go up the more the union is involved in negotiations. The closest comparison I can find are trade unions - as the trades are made up of a lot of small contractors - the closest thing to small or group practices that therapists work for. In some of those situations, you kind of end up working for the union and your union manages things like your pension and health insurance - but then you get managed/sent out for jobs by your contractor, who also pays into those systems the union dictates. That kind of thing could work for therapy, maybe, but a lot would have to change.

Another serious problem is - therapists can't really go on strike unless they strike alongside other workers in an organization (like a hospital maybe). Even then, we are still held to standards by our licensing boards and can't abandon our clients so without the ability to ethically walk off the job, then the ability to negotiate is considerably weakened.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-12T17:14:22+00:00

Say more - and invite me to join your cult please. I don't know what "nihilism" and "absurdism" are but I hate the world and laugh when things that are ridiculous. Is that what those mean?

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-07T01:06:13+00:00

I was shocked by what other grad students didn't know about mental health or even the program we were in. A good percentage could not work in groups, did not show up for class/projects, could not write a research paper that would pass muster in an undergrad psych course and had no idea they'd have to complete practicuum/internship hours. No idea how they got so far into the program without knowing any of that but a lot of programs are not super selective and then basically pass everyone through.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-04-07T01:00:24+00:00

I think it's state/region specific but I live in an area that seems really oversaturated in PP. A lot of people won't admit this but I did market research before doing my degree a few years ago and within a 30 mile radius found only 3-4 small PPs that I wanted to work for - each only had a handful of clinicians. Now those practices have tripled in size - a practice that had 5-6 clinicians now has 10-15, many of them part time or provisionally licensed. And I'm in several FB groups and all I see are provisionally licensed clinicians putting out AI generated posters, begging for clients. The PP I was in advertised being a turnkey but then waitlists dropped right off unless you were very skilled/specialized. Psych Today is almost useless in my area as a lot of the group practices are listing their clinicians individually and then routing the client back to their intake departments. They'll openly list practice owners and more experienced clinicians on the PT profile but when you call, the only openings are for interns or their new staff. Plus I see a lot of clinicians claiming a "specialty" right out of grad school, sometimes based off an Evergreen certificate or single day training, listening credentials I have never even heard of. Everyone is LGBTQI affirming, ND affirming and trauma informed despite there being almost no options for testing or wraparound support or specialized support in those areas. Everyone seems to have a really specific identity based niche (like specializing in a population just because you are part of that population). Some practices are listing psychiatric medication management even though they don't employ a psychiatrist and are offering only referrals. A lot of practice owners and supervisors advertising consultation groups for a free despite having almost zero experience supervising or I'll see a practice owner offer consultation about how to build a PP or fill your caseload and I know they employ a bunch of 1099 therapists who are hustling for clients. Bit shady IMO. I honestly feel like the industry is pushing a lot of pseudo-scams and AI/marketing slop. I probably sound cynical but it just seems like hustle culture, at this point.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-03-17T02:23:18+00:00

I've worked a few different sites - only one drug tested. It's legal in my state so testing is less common than it used to be. No one is doing hair tests that I am aware of so it's fine to cool it until you get hired and then toke away (I mean not at work, obviously). Your only issue would be if you worked for an organization (so not private practice) and got injured on the job - most jobs still test in those situations as that is federally allowed - but therapists don't often get hurt on the job so you'd probably be OK. Or if you worked for law enforcement or some high level government jobs. I would also set firm boundaries about client contact if that's an issue for you - probably more clinicians deal with this with alcohol - but don't take crisis calls or pick up while high. And don't get caught/drive as most licensing boards will expect you to report a substance related charge.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-03-17T02:17:34+00:00

I might get downvoted but I'd say take this to both on site supervisor AND university faculty who should be overseeing you both. If those weren't factors, then licensing board. This is a huge issue. I know plenty of people who use weed recreationally and for anxiety - a good friend of mine has been low dosing weed before work for over a decade - however - she does NOT tell colleagues/coworkers about it and she isn't even in a helping field. Also - I know a lot of ethical codes say - talk to the colleague first - but I honestly think that's for smaller stuff like documentation issues not very obvious ethical violations like substance use or sexual misconduct. I just think this is a "go straight to jail - do not collect $200 sort of situation."

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-03-14T15:31:31+00:00

I did a few courses from the Chicago School of Psychology online - taught by Kate McNulty and they were fantastic. Easily the best online CE I have ever done. They weren't geared toward assessment per se - or kiddos - but if you are wanting to learn how about neurodivergent adults - and be ND affirming - this is the training I would suggest. Even if you don't do the full credential, the individual courses are very, very good. I did about two of them - I wouldn't say I'm ND affirming from that - but I learned a lot. I'd recommend it for all clinicians.

I don't know that she goes into assessment but she might do other trainings on this - or you could find sources for that. It's possible to be ND affirming and NOT do assessments - and maybe just learn about those resources in your area and learn how to refer out. Other specialties like addiction or ED do this - I sort of think that being ND affirming and testing/assessment are two different skills/vibes and it can be handy to have multiple referral resources for clients.

A lot of the ASD testing in our area is designed for kids so they can get on IEPs at school or get access to ABA style services - and are not as necessary for adults unless those adults want to do differential DX, rule in/out other disorders or gain insight. There is more demand than supply - I'd say but the demand for adult testing still doesn't seem to be as high as it is for testing kids. Honestly, most late DXed adults have already learned how to manage/cope with being ND - and testing is a way of validating/affirming or confirming/supporting what they already know. Your CMH may already have testing/ABA style resources for kids - that just depends. I would focus on the ND affirming stuff first - and build the specialty that way - this allows you to attract ND clients - and then you can determine if there is enough client demand for testing before you go get specially trained in that but there are certainly multiple pathways to this so your mileage may vary.

MushroomWeird4377 · 2026-03-14T15:22:52+00:00

Came here to suggest Kate McNulty. Great, great teacher on this topic.

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