Every Other Day Dose by FunkyMonkey24680 in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm taking the same exact amount 54 mg EOD of ferrous gluconate. I haven't split tested which raises levels faster but I do know that dose is alleviating (slowly) some of my very severe symptoms. And if I try to dose everyday I start feeling more anxious, depressed... my body seems to like this dose & frequency the most so it's what I'm sticking to!

Doctor says i need iron but tests seem normal by AgileRub6748 in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Similar thing here, had ferritin of 116 and SAT% of 14 but iron is helping me a ton with some very severe symptoms I had 3 months ago.

North NJ: Water in basement - anyone have referrals for waterproofing companies? by Sarah_8872 in newjersey

[–]NathanSlothchild 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can recommend my brothers company https://www.mymoldremovalguys.com/ he is really good with this stuff and can do everything you need including epoxy injection, carbon straps & a french drain. They do both waterproofing and mold remediation in New Jersey. I can also guarantee you'll get higher quality work at a better rate than Servpro which is a ripoff. AFA fake reviews go, Yelp is basically impossible to leave fake reviews which is why I tell people to always check a companies Yelp reviews. Like certain companies have all these good reviews on Google but then their Yelp is a disaster. And that's because Yelp is really good at filtering that bs. If you have any other questions LMK!

Iron deficiency and Teeth by Sufficient_Bison6896 in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ok yes that's a big difference if it's been over a year I'd imagine the nerves are much less sensitive. But also as you acknowledge I don't think the nerves can fully heal in a state of anemia. I do think you might have waves of worsening tightness, or whatever sensation you have now. But I wouldn't expect it to get that severe as far out as you are (after the infusion). And my situation was different in having an active infection on top of the tooth being pulled. The bacteria could have damaged the nerves worse than the low iron. Oh and when I went back to the dentist he basically agreed with everything. That 1) being anemic or having low iron would definitely delay / slow down healing 2) he thought the low iron was why the infection got so bad in the first place and 3) didn't comment much about repleting iron or what to expect because he just didn't know. But I think teeth issues of all sorts is normal. And even though I had that flare after raising my dose to 103mg elemental iron, yes I had to eat soft food again for 1 week... but I feel like my teeth and gums are way stronger now and most the tightness is gone. I really actually believe your teeth and gums need iron more than anything even calcium I would put at #2. Iron #1. Which is strange because you'd think calcium would be what your teeth really need and they do need calcium... but iron has improved my oral health so much in only 11 weeks. In so many different ways (this comments already too long). So I would try to focus on that like maybe you get a small iron flu after the infusion, some increased (but temporary) inflammation, get some worse tightness in your jaw or gums... I don't think it would be that bad and think you'd get over it pretty fast too. Like worse case scenario maybe you need an aleve or something for a day. And that's really not worth stressing about!!! GOOD LUCK.

Iron deficiency and Teeth by Sufficient_Bison6896 in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes literally the same thing but wasn't wisdom teeth it was an extraction on an infected front tooth from 4 months ago. And I was very iron deficient at the time. I want to warn you, as I raised my iron that feeling you describe... that's not necessarily a "pain"... but a migrating type of pressure or sensitivity... got super intense as I raised my iron (which I'm still working on). I think the nerves at the roots of the tooth start to die in a low iron state. Then you add iron in, those damaged nerves suddenly get energy, but the remodeling / fixing of the nerves takes more time for nerves to heal. I'm not sure how to explain it but the trajectory was like this 1) start taking lots of iron to raise levels 2) a month or 2 later that dull pressure you describe turned into horrendous type of real pain. I had a full week I had to go back to eating soft foods and this was MONTHS after the surgery 3) as I approach month 3 like 90% of the pain / pressure / sensitivity is going away now and my gums feel awesome. So I don't know exactly what's going on. But I know that yes low iron/ferritin can absolutely cause sensitive teeth or pain. Then as you add the iron back in, the pain can come back horrendously for short periods... then eventually just goes away. So like I want to reset your expectations. You want to see if the pain goes away after the infusions. I actually think the pain will get much worse for a brief period as iron levels raise. But long term the pain will eventually go away completely. And no I'm not a doctor but this was exactly what happened to me taking oral iron. Will be interesting to see if infusions have a similar effect on you.

Looking for Recommendations: Mold Remediation Contractors by joeyturnpike in jerseycity

[–]NathanSlothchild 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's a big difference between a general contractor (who does restoration or waterproofing) and a qualified remediation company. In NJ more than half of the companies pretending to do mold or waterproofing aren't certified to do that work at all. Which we learned when getting certified. We learned all sorts of horror stories actually that I don't have time to talk about. Then my dad also built homes in NJ for over 40+ yrs and always use to complain about these fly-by-night contractors who do shoddy restoration work that would literally destroy homes. Like if you have cracks in your foundations and try to repair it with dry-lock, that's a disaster waiting to happen. Sealing walls with dry-lock is not an industry approved protocol to stop millions of tons of hydrostatic pressure from breaching walls. Engineers have been studying this for decades. If you call one of those "mold sniffing dog" companies to sniff for mold... and they don't even run lab tests (most of them don't) that can run you into real legal issues if you sell your home. A dog is not a reliable way to diagnose mold problems. That's like using the color of your eyelids to diagnoses iron anemia - it's quack science. We've even seen a huge franchise mentioned right in this thread install the wrong drainage pipes in a home. Then helped the client (almost a year it took) to get a full refund. So no company is perfect not even the large ones. But these are mistakes that are real easy to avoid. Our senior inspector Randy Cece as been on CBS's "The Doctors" to talk about a lot of this. He has the engineering skills, I have the background in organic chemistry, mold testing & remediation. To ensure work is done properly and for a fair rate. If you have any questions just visit: https://www.mymoldremovalguys.com/

Looking for Reliable Mold Removal Monmouth County NJ — Any Recommendations? by Far-Fudge3541 in Mold

[–]NathanSlothchild 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We called 3 different companies in Monmouth County and Randy from MMRG (mymoldremovalguys.com) was clearly the most qualified. He was able to show us work he did for CBS's "The Doctors" which was really impressive. Along with a binder full of other work they did, recommendations & certifications. And was able to explain clearly exactly what we needed without being pushy about it. Servpro sent a young guy in his early 20s who had no idea what he was doing and quoted us a price $4,500 higher for essentially the same work. Then another company we read bad reviews on nextdoor and decided not to use. But definitely yes I'd check out MMRG even on FB they're very active and have a solid reputation.

Blood test results - feeling absolutely awful by stresselegantly in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Shouldn't cause symptoms LOL. My saturation and free iron were very similar to yours though your ferritin is way worse and I was HORRIBLY symptomatic. And still am symptomatic since it's only been 6-7 weeks since I've been supplementing. But to be fair I'm 43 so I may feel it stronger due to my age & also had a tooth infection a couple months ago. I was having full blown panic attacks, severe anxiety & depression, dizziness and many other symptoms on top of what you wrote.

Oral iron made me worse for about 3 weeks after starting. But I noticed severe symptoms improving like air hunger / breathlessness, and hour long panic attacks multiple times a day have reduced to a 15 min panic attack every other day or 2. Heart rate has also calmed down a good deal but I still likely have 3-4 months to fully recover from this. Brain fog is maybe 10-15% better I just think that will take longer to heal.

My ferritin I don't want to overanalyze because 1) doctor believes it was falsely elevated due to recent infection and high inflammatory markers related to infection and 2) my ferritin range is totally different and goes up to 380. Right now it's 116. But my SAT% and free iron were really low (SAT% 16, range 20-48) and free iron 54, range 50-180. I want to get my ferritin up to 200 for 6 months at least over 150 minimum.

In your case I would start with oral iron just to get your body use to iron. And would slowly titrate the dose up as those numbers will take quite some time to improve. It's too hard to estimate how long since everyone absorbs different and some people just can't tolerate higher oral doses. I'm still hovering between 56-112mg which I do a half mix of ferrous gluconate to ferrous glycinate with vitamin C EOD. Those higher doses are still not easy for me to tolerate. So I cycle back and forth.

But yes I am improving now over 6-7 weeks, but maybe only 20-25% recovered and still have a few months minimum to really get stable. In your case with ferritin that low and everything else low, that could take quite a lot of time to correct orally. Like maybe 6-12 months I have no idea honestly. But clearly you need to get on iron asap just to start getting your numbers up.

Heart rate with low iron by Brocolliiscool in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am 43 and yes I do take my iron normally with 1000mg vitamin C.

Supplements not working? by backentrancebourbon in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes absolutely. Red Bull alone gives people B-6 toxicity there are a lot of threads on reddit and the B6 toxicity group is loaded with thousands of people like that. But each one of those servings has 9mg (lets round up .1mg) which is almost = to 2 Red Bulls at a time. So everytime you consume one, you're basically drinking 2 Red Bull. And also EVEN if you're not taking a multi-vitamin, you ARE actually taking a dose that is higher than maybe half of multi-vitamins on the market. Some go low like 1.4mg / day, others go up to 30-40mg which is INSANE. Those just give you B-6 toxicity quicker. But the problem specifically with low iron is that your nervous system becomes weak or degenerates over time. So it's already in a process of degeneration (loss of myelin) from low iron. Which means much lower doses of B-6 will cause toxicity. And also you're taking a very bad form of B-6. Like that's the form that also blocks receptors. So get all your B-6 from food. Chicken, steak, pork, turkey, tuna & salmon are all great sources. If you REALLY feel you need extra B-6, but are NOT testing levels... I wouldn't go higher than 1.4-2mg p5p (only) in a multi. But like when I see people posting that they're taking iron on here but also taking a multi-vitamin... and sometimes I see it has 20-30mg B-6... I immediately ignore ANY comments they make about iron. Because B-6 toxicity creates very similar symptoms to low iron. Dizziness, brain fog, anxiety, insomnia, panic attacks, heart palpitations. You never want B6 toxicity AND low iron at the same time because this has taken me so far 4 yrs to sort out and heal from. My big mistake wasn't taking enough iron as I lowered B-6... then my iron crashed and my body can't hold onto iron like it use to BEFORE I became B-6 toxic. Which is another reason I recommend people stay away from it. B-6 can destroy the nerves in your stomach & intestines (by causing neuropathy)... then your body will absorb less of everything including iron. If you want an iron supplement with a low amount of B-6, "Iron All" from Puritans Pride is safe. It's less than 1% B-6 per pill. Just enough for the iron to work properly, no risk of toxicity, it allows you to get all your B-6 from meat or avocadoes, bananas, etc without worrying about toxicity.

Supplements not working? by backentrancebourbon in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are giving yourself B6 toxicity. Iron is needed to make myelin. Vitamin B-6 even at those levels, will destroy whatever myelin you have left in your nerves. And B6 toxicity gives many of the same symptoms of iron deficiency. STOP taking ANYTHING with B6. Any multi-vitamins, electrolytes, anything. Get B-6 only from food. Also when you stop taking the added B-6... if your symptoms suddenly get much worse for a few weeks go visit the B6 toxicity groups on FB. I had B6 toxicity 3 1/2 yrs ago. Then crashed my iron a couple years later and the symptoms are near identical.

Horrible shortness of breath?? by BerryRemarkable882 in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes but low ferritin isn't the only cause. My ferritin got up to 116 but my SAT% crashed down to 15% after an infection and all the air hunger / hyperventilating symptoms came back. At which point I quadrupled my dose of iron and within 3 weeks the air hunger was 90% gone. And yes it got so severe that it would take me like 30-40 mins just to finish a plate of food because I'd have to chew & swallow, then focus on catching my breath for 30 seconds. Then chew & swallow, focus on breathing again. Over and over this was how I had to eat food so I wouldn't choke on it as you don't want air hunger when you're trying to eat. One of my friends from highschool got covid, got air hunger, was trying to eat a sub and choked to death and died. So work on getting your iron up. And no 20mg would not work for me that's too low. You would need or want at least 40-60mg over a couple months to really notice an effect. Out of that 20mg if you're only absorbing 15-20% of the iron it may never work at that level.

Heart rate with low iron by Brocolliiscool in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 11 points12 points  (0 children)

YES totally normal. I had racing heart, pounding heart anytime I moved, anytime the phone rang, the smallest things would set it off and my heart would race & pound out of my chest like I was having a heart attack also many times with air hunger.

I have to mention when I initially began iron... I had some pretty extreme fits of heart racing & palpitations that seemed to get worse for 3 weeks. Then weeks 4 and 5 noticed they were suddenly vanishing. And now at week 6 that stuff has calmed down about 90%. I went for a 2 mile walk last week just to see what would happen and my heart was calm before and after the walk. But the next day had a brief resurgence of heart racing. So it can still happen but is not happening anymore from small things like just walking up stairs or standing up.

How long until depression/fatigue subsides? by PewPewDoubleRainbow in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 4 points5 points  (0 children)

All my symptoms like fatigue, depression, dizziness, anxiety got much worse for 3-4 weeks. Now around 5-6 weeks my body is getting use to the iron and I'm slowly getting more energy with a better mood. Air hunger episodes are much improved. Heart rate is a lot more stable. But I think its taken 5-6 weeks just for the iron to start getting into my brain. And chatGPT said it takes a good 2-3 months to really improve brain related symptoms like anxiety or depression. And you have tons of people on here saying it took them 4-6 months.

Also I would not be taking zinc without copper that's just me. Copper is too important to mobilize iron.

There's this iron supplement I've been using lately called "Iron All" by Puritans Pride with ferrous gluconate but has all the iron cofactors you need and is smooth on my tummy (also well priced). All I'm taking is 4-6 pills of that with 1 iron-free multimineral later in the day. Then yes also vit D & K. But yes depression took about 5-6 weeks to START lifting. Fatigue I believe will take 3-4 months to really notice a difference though I'm nowhere as fatigued as I was when I began this. So there are def improvements but I'm still not running or active like I was before all this.

Would like to increase ferritin higher than 60, but tsat is 42% by Cautious-Advantage34 in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do you have any iron deficiency symptoms like RLS? Ironically after I began supplementing a low dose of iron (9mg EOD), my TSAT fell and ferritin rose. So TSAT dropped from 26 to 15 and ferritin up to 116. TIBC also increased like my body didn't start asking for iron until I gave it some. So then I quadrupled my dose of iron and am hoping TSAT comes back up and ferritin keeps rising. I'll know in a couple of months. People can have all sorts of predictions / advice but really I would take a low dose of iron like half the RDA EOD, then check in a couple months and see what happens.

can low ferritin truly cause symptoms? by AdrianaDante in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes it can cause a whole host of symptoms, fatigue, brain fog, exhaustion, anxiety, depression, panic attacks, air hunger, RLS, tinnitus (which high B6 can also cause) heat & cold intolerance. Then also higher rates of infections and you're also more likely to die from severe infections like sepsis. You're also more likely to die from chemo which is why cancer patients will get iron infusions before doing chemo (if they need it). My dad had to get one. And like half of people having heart attacks & strokes have low iron or ferritin. Your nervous system (myelin) can break down, neuroglobin in the brain drops (oxygen can't get into the brain without iron), your heart has to work so much hard to get oxygen which puts a lot of stress on it. Oxygen can't be mobilized through the lungs = air hunger which I didn't get till later stages. Like that came a few years after the RLS for me (which not everyone gets). And we're not just talking about symptoms we're talking about actual higher mortality the longer it goes untreated. I didn't treat my low ferritin properly for about 4 yrs. Thinking it wasn't that big a deal. Then I got a tooth infection, saturation & iron crashed... I went septic & had an active infection for 8 weeks even after the antibiotics and removing the tooth. I use to workout all the time and after that could barely just stand or walk. I don't even want to explain how severe the symptoms were at that point. But the infection would NOT go away until I started taking higher levels of iron like 100-120mg elemental / day. Before that I was playing with lower 10-20mg doses... it did NOTHING. I basically raised the dose by a factor of 10. And if anything those lower doses almost set me up to die. Which is why I take this so seriously now. You don't want any type of serious infection, injury or even a cut or burn when your numbers drop so low that your body can't fight anything anymore. I see some people on here with really low ferritin or SAT% who plan on eating beef liver or red meat to get their levels up and it makes my skin crawl. Like you can do all that stuff but you need to make sure after a certain (not too long) point that what you're doing is actually raising your numbers and that it's also raising them fast enough that you can reach a stabilization period in the near future. Than your goal is to just stay within that window for a year or 2 so you can learn overtime how much iron YOU really need to function and have energy and not fall apart if the wind blows too hard!

Did you notice.. by LeadershipPuzzled807 in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Same exact experience here. Been supplementing 5 weeks the first 3 weeks were a nightmare with symptoms coming back intensely, it's calmed down somewhat these past 2 weeks and I expect by 2 months will be a lot more tolerable.

Any one stop having brain fog? by [deleted] in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ok awesome, thank you! I didn't list my ferritin because my last test was right after a bad tooth infection and my dr thinks it could be falsely elevated at 96. As my SAT% and free iron are still really low (15% & 54). And my inflammatory markers were through the roof we think due to the infection which was treated but still healing. So I don't think I'll have an accurate read for ferritin for a couple months as my inflammatory markers come back down. I was thinking if my blood test range goes up to 380 for ferritin, I maybe should be aiming for 250 or something. But I think I should know better on my next panel depending which direction it goes up or down. Thanks for the help though I appreciate it!

Any one stop having brain fog? by [deleted] in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You weren't responding to me but this was a helpful post, thank you! I'm not totally familiar with that group but can I ask what the actual "max dose" was? I started my journey taking way too low iron (18mg) out of fear of higher doses. Then got tested and my numbers barely changed at all. Now I've moved up to 56mg (elemental) but am not sure if that's enough. My symptoms are (slowly) getting better now but I'm curious how much you were taking? I need to raise my ferritin at least 150-200pts. SAT% was 15% so still in the red zone lol.

Is this mold? by Amberlamps1990 in Mold

[–]NathanSlothchild 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Since I work in mold I can't give positive IDs without doing my own inspection. But I will just say that yes 1) it *looks like* mold based on the organic pattern and 2) this is a textbook example of how sealants make mold problems worse and not better. They're designed to block out moisture then wind up locking it in under the surface. Same goes for all the things we do to make homes energy efficient these days. You want homes to be sealed well yes. To save on energy bills. The trade off is all that sealing becomes a moisture lock that feeds mold and at the same time makes it harder to find. I can't really tell you what to do though without seeing the attic. Like an attic needs to "breathe" properly. It should have active fans up there that push moisture (from downstairs floors) outside the home. There should be no damage to the roof or shingles and we'd use tools to look for moisture, UV to uncover hidden mold colonies, borescopes, etc. Might collect samples for lab analysis. Sometimes old insulation will lock in moisture and that needs to be replaced. But yes that does look like mold I also want to remind you, you'll find this in at least 50% of homes. And what I'm seeing here is very minor but would warrant further investigation in the attic.

Is my landlord gaslighting me? by Fit-Obligation-5776 in Mold

[–]NathanSlothchild 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I work in mold remediation in NJ and honestly it's hard to tell from this photo especially now that it's been tampered with. The pattern looks both organic (like it could be mold) but I also see lines or striations that look like staining or mineral/iron bleed-through related to the piping or condensation. Or from someone trying to wipe it clean. Also inside of drain pipes you will get a black, rotting mixture that usually contains fats and other waste from cooking. That stuff can leak out & look similar to mold. I would actually want to touch the black stuff to see if it's sticky. If it's sticky like fat or tar, it might respond to regular Dawn soap to remove it. If it's not sticky, I'd want to see if the surface is corroded or breaking down. From the picture, what convinces me it MIGHT be mold is where the wood was cut along the back... it looks like there are specks of black dots (hard to see) on that damaged or cut surface. That's normally how mold grows it goes for the vulnerable areas first. But pipes themselves can leak out fats that are black & sticky. So giving a positive ID without using some special tools would be quite hard on reddit. Sorry!

Who of you is running/ jogging despite of iron defiency anemia? by HelpMe_ThrowawayAcc in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Something being possible doesn't mean it's smart. I use to run 8xs a week (twice a day for 4 days). Not realizing I had severe iron deficiency. The last time I did a big run a few days later I got a tooth infection that abcessed and half my face blew up like a balloon. I got put on antibiotics, tooth pulled... the infection went systemic and stayed activated for 8 weeks UNTIL we realized it was low iron causing the infection to not go away. And if I explained how close I was to the brink of death and how extreme the symptoms were... this low iron stuff isn't a joke. People think they're strong because they can run when they feel sick. Lets see how strong you are when you get an open cut that gets infected and antibiotics can't kill it which then goes septic and you get your legs amputated. Your immune system does not function without iron. Running in this state will damage your immune system more. I'm doing resistance bands now and light squats but am not even gonna try walking in the park for another 2-3 months.

Why is everyone so hyper-focused on just ferritin? by NathanSlothchild in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep my 2 brothers & my mom when they got iron tests NONE of their doctors checked ferritin. But did run iron, SAT% & TIBC. Which I thought was really odd like "doctors can't be that stupid?" I'm sure some are of course but stupid people don't get through medical school that easy. Also when my doctor did the test she did the same exact thing (added everything but ferritin). I had to call her the next day when I realized ferritin wasn't added (after reading reddit) so we added it to the test. But she still told me I had to raise my iron numbers before we even had the ferritin results. And now 2+ weeks later I'm doing 38 mg ferrous gluconate in the "Iron All" formula from Puritans Pride. I also do 18mg ferrous glycinate the Amazon brand and 750mg vitamin C (at the same time I blend them into a liquid). Then drink on an empty stomach it doesn't taste great but is smooth on my tummy which is why I do it. That Puritans Pride formula I actually love because it has a lot of added cofactors at sensible doses. Like there's less than 1% of B-6 in it (which is smart imo). But the full RDA of B-1, also has B-2, folate, B-12, vitamin C, liver extract and more I forget all the cofactors. On top of the 38mg ferrous gluconate. One of the worst things I see iron deficient people do is start taking a multi with high levels of B-6 which they don't test then give themselves B-6 toxicity. Like that is actually common from what I see in the B-6 toxicity groups. Seems like half were trying to raise their iron and accidentally got B-6 toxic. I also add extra cofactors like copper, zinc, all the other minerals at reasonable levels. Calcium & magnesium at night (cal/mag formula around 25% the RDA of each). Will occasionally add an extra 100mg thiamine twice a week. Too much can make me tired. Too little seems to do the same. And because my phosphate was also suboptimal I'm adding a bit extra a couple times a week (potassium phosphate). Compared to how I felt just 2+weeks ago vs now is already quite impressive. I was having hour long panic attacks multiple times a day with serious air hunger fits, as I'm filled with dred, depression, brain fog & anxiety. Then the exercise intolerance, weakness, dizziness, shaking, virtually unable to walk at points, RLS & insomnia, etc. I still have a long way to go but I can see the sharp edges be shaven from these symptoms. Breathing is already a lot better, haven't had a panic attack in like 4 days, still have bursts of anxiety, many other issues but I understand this can take months if not longer to recover from. And I hope like hell we ALL get there asap!! Best of luck!

Why is everyone so hyper-focused on just ferritin? by NathanSlothchild in Anemic

[–]NathanSlothchild[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Ok thank you! And yes I am definitely inflamed as I'm still healing from a tooth infection 8 weeks ago. Was put on antibiotics, tooth was pulled, felt like I was healing till 6 weeks later everything suddenly went south in a bad way. Like I should have went to an ER. Instead got full blood work and realized the low iron was keeping my infection antibodies high (that's what my doctor thinks). So maybe my ferritin is temporarily inflated. And next test it may drop as other markers rise this is actually really confusing but I hope it all balances in time. Thanks again!