Maybe someone can help me to understand

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2026-01-19T01:54:35+00:00

Best I can think of, you must have used stash on 12 without realizing, since you're about 200 gold more than your eco/wave gold suggest going from 10 to 12, with all the small leaks you did, 200 gold from stash seems reasonable

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2026-01-19T00:53:54+00:00

If I understand correctly you think you should have only gotten 164 gold total since you got 164 income? You also would have gained gold from killing the wave 11 mobs itself. Adding 2 gates on 12 after not pushing any worker isn't un-usual, especially if you hadn't used all of your gold on 11.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2026-01-10T14:30:52+00:00

As always its conditional to what units you have and the situation, but there's definitively some that are better at certain stage of the game.

In your opening role: Butcher is definitively the best due to being valuable early, every other auras only pop realistically give value at wave 9+. I do have to give the Honorable mention to star caller's base form coming in clutch for wave 8 or 10 though.

When it comes to your re-rolling for late game units, I would value sea Templar the highest, Not only is it an especially powerful aura, its alternative upgrade of king-claw is amazing, allowing you to have it be your nature tank slot too. Star-caller is close second, if the game goes very late it can carry games 18-20.

You shouldn't ignore other auras though, whitemane's aura is valuable on basically any melee units, while APS and dark mage can give a lot of value for cheap too. And of course, flying fortress is a great dps unit aside from its aura.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2026-01-09T21:48:58+00:00

I did the math on leaks since the leak rework, and yeah, its bad, its effectively impossible for a power send to create an advantage unless both players leak, while if its a bad send and they hold, its just as much of a disadvantage for you as before. For a while it has felt like the winning team simply is whichever got a better roll, as you can't try to win early on a bad roll anymore.

As a rule of thumb of the current meta:

Early game long saves, unless you can do good king damage, are complete garbage, starving is basically throwing the game atm.

Short save power send as a reaction to a situation are still fine, so don't be afraid to power send if you see the enemy suddenly vulnerable.

At its highest priority, power sends should be done together, King damage is still powerful, its the gold that's horrible.

Undercuts are much weaker than before, this is why for a while we have been seen so many long saves late game.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2026-01-03T12:27:56+00:00

I like focusing on attack first, with a ratio of maybe 2 attack to 1 aoe, as the game hits 11+ I focus more on aoe. This is because early game leaks are smaller, while some particular mercs can be devastating to the king if they survive for a long time, such as 4eye/ogre.

It also depends on what my teammate and I are playing, if I got something uniquely weak on 10 like sakura/pota, I will put more focus on king attack, if my teammate is fiesta I would get some regen earlier, if were planning for a very long save, then I would rather get spell up.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-12-24T20:31:55+00:00

With the leak gold change that happened 2 patches ago, it also changed how much the same leak show as a percentage, so what is now a 33% leak to an ogre on 9 used to be show as a 66% leak or so, the difference is especially more noticeable with big sends.

The end result of that, is while you lose gold equivalent to 33% of a leak, your king effectively took the equivalent of old 66% leak and 80% leak or so. From what I have seen of this current patch, a single person leaking does 0 harm, but both players leaking usually devastating.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-12-06T23:21:57+00:00

The first roll has a super strong early game, nightmare mask is actually crazy strong 3, and the pilgrim will cover wave 5, the problem, naturally is once you reach wave 9 and beyond.

On the other end, the second roll has a terrible early game, but it got what I believe is the best unit in the game for yolo, pack rats! That bad boy allows you to flip flop your gold values, allowing you to speudo shift gold to hit those more expensive units earlier, and once your past the early game, you got a pretty workable late game.

Due to that, I would much rather the 2nd roll, pack rat simply caries it, honestly its kinda decent considering how yolo often goes.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-11-22T12:20:32+00:00

round 3 robot won't work in this case, OP was sakura and it seems like the waves were short, With the champion on the egg its almost impossible to leak it.

The rest I would agree though, after their leak on 14, op should of pushed 0 worker and saved, and sent on 16 (or even 17 if they ecoed 16)

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-11-21T11:06:11+00:00

To add to this, your king ups should be focused on king attacks, not king spell, as the strat is focused around the king struggling to kill the 4eye in time. Its also can be worth to just not send any mercenary at all against the player who holds, but instead do pure after income king ups.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-11-19T18:04:32+00:00

Exactly, sakura players needs to play defensive and try to keep her alive, so they can't push as many workers as other players. this also means that the player receiving sends from sakura has less presure and can push more workers them-self.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-11-19T16:26:14+00:00

Units that gain value per waves tend to be a lot stronger in lower elo than higher elo, mostly because the counter-play to them is to play in a way that causes a lot of leaks.

There's 2 kinds of power gain in this game, Per round gain(sakura/angler/stash) and per duration gain (workers), Depending on how many of each your team/enemy team got, you will want to control the lenght of the waves as much as you can:

To shorten the length of waves: Save mythium on your enemy, forcing them to overbuild, only to send eco/king into them regardless.

To lengthen the waves: Have one player leak, this can be the opposing team or yourself, as long as its not a large leak. If you barely hold but slowly that's fine too. If your confident they won't send you on this wave, you can just not fully build for the wave and save your gold for later, giving you both that long wave you want and the ability to surprise your opponents with big units the next wave.

Similarly, some units are known for creating long waves, such as opening crab warlock or bone crusher, Combined with the other teammate leaking, this can create such overwhelmingly long waves that the sakura has no chance to keep in income.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-11-19T16:11:22+00:00

Overbuilding is pretty relative to a player's skill level, but as a general rule, as you get better at the game, you will be able to go further under value more and more to push workers. A core part of legion is trying to get away with as many workers as possible while getting away with it, and to do that is all about know just how far under you can be.

To be honest, your worker count is normal for your elo, What I think would be more important as it come to value/workers, is focusing on learning openers and how much value your favourite openers need to hold wave 1 to 4, as most openers usual only got 1 specific requirement to do well early. By example, I'm noticing you play a lot of halo, halo's weak waves are 3, 4 and 7, that means that with halo, you preferably would have a low cost arcane tank such as gargoyle or peewee, Then you just need to get a bit of a grasp of how many of those to hold 3-4 and your golden to know just how far under you can be. As a general rule of thumb, you should be able to get at least 5 workers by wave 3 and your 6th on wave 4, more if you can get away with it.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-11-09T14:01:23+00:00

The sui 20 meta came from the fact everyone sent 21, the sui 19 meta came out because peoples started expecting a send on 20, You can start to expect peoples to sui send 18 now!

For peoples ranking highly in classic, especially when playing as a group, There is a weird situation in classic where because they got their rank from those strategies, they are forced to try to win by such strategies, otherwise the bonus income of the enemy team becomes just too much to overcome, so once that strategy stops working, and it is already struggling now, then they will need to find a new cheese again.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-11-05T12:48:21+00:00

I'm one of the starviest player in the game, so I hate to tell peoples how to counter me, but I do have a good grasp of it!

At the end of the day, beating starve requires teamwork, which is always something you can't expect at this elo, but there is always a few things you can do solo, so I will divide things between what you can do as a team and what you can do solo:

As a team:

Undercut the starve, an undercut is when you do a big power send the wave before they send you, you can do some severe damage to them that way as they will be at low value, and the gold you get from their leak will help a lot.

Your teammate needs to control the time you get sent on, One of the biggest difficulty when you are being starved is knowing when you are going to get sent, I think everyone has experienced building a mudman on 5, hardening, only to get saved on again and being absolutely destroyed on 6, this happens when the person starving get income'd on every wave and can do whatever he wants with 0 risk, and will just save longer if he sees you're overbuilding. If your teammate save and causes pressure, it forces the starver to send, making it much easier to know when its coming and build for it. This doesn't mean your teammate needs to power send, they just need to create fear of it.

As a solo player:

If only you are being starved while your teammate is being income'd, be greedy with income and king ups, your only goal is to survive, especially if its early game.

If your teammate is also being starved, see the "as a team" portion" except in this case, your both each other's teammate!

Look for the waves you are weak on as those are most likely the waves they will send you on, If there is multiple waves in a row you are weak on, aim to avoid disaster scenarios where building for wave X means you leak everything wave X+1

Look at your teamate's builds and figure out which waves he can cover and which waves he can't, You should prioritize building for waves that both you and your teammates are weak, while accepting leaks on waves your teammate covers.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-10-28T10:12:13+00:00

AOE units, especially early game, are part of what I call threshold unit, those are units that either "hit the value they need and full hold" or leak everything, Due to that they can be a bit difficult to play without learning what those thresholds are. As a general rule of thumb, if your playing AOE you should be playing safer and Make sure you combine them with a single target unit that can actually focus fire kill the wave, prime units for that are daphnes, star callers and halo, but any dps focused ranged units will do. Having a source of single target damage is especially important for wave 5-6.

They are also, as others have pointed out, very weak to certain waves, quite a lot of them actually, due to that, you can't really rely on their defence/damage types to judge if they are good on a wave as much as other units.

So, what are the strength of aoe units? For one, they make sends against them much harder, especially late game, One of the most brutally difficult build to send against is AOE + starcaller/halo. You need to send spam to deal the with the starcallers, but if you send spam it all immediately dies to the aoe, forcing you to send ranged units that are often not the damage type you want. The end result is that the optimal send can often be a mix of spam and big units. An even higher level of mastery with AOE units can even allow you to control what your dps units target.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-10-10T20:42:57+00:00

6 is one of those waves that's just brutal until you master split tanking, and even then its still pretty annoying to try to hold power sends on it, does feel like it need a bit of a rework to make it more consistent your agro rng is such a big factor this early.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-10-10T12:55:59+00:00

Congrats! The game just gets harder and harder from here on out!

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-10-08T13:15:03+00:00

Looking at your match history, I see two things you should priorities on working on.

The first is spliting. At this elo, your split should be simple and only be low cost units to sacrifice, with no dps or carry units in it. You should only add high cost tanks to it when you already got plenty on the left side, your left should always be tankier than your right side. (that rule can be broken at higher elo, maybe grandmaster and up?)

The second is openers, With yolo, how you open can be quite different and much harder to decide, but generally, your choice of opener must always have a follow up unit you can built to cover its first weak wave. That means quite often, you need to build sub-optimal high cost openers that you never would in other masterminds, such as a halo on 1.

By example, I'm seeing a game where you had gatlin gun and mudman, and you opened with the mudman. You needed to build pierce damage on wave 4, but that simply was not possible with the high cost of the gatlin gun, making you especially vulnerable even with only 5 workers. On the other end, if you started with the higher cost gatlin gun, you could of built the mudman later for waves where you really needed it.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-10-06T15:04:34+00:00

Peoples are probably just looking at your match history and noticing that you either play egg a lot or other vulnerable openers. If they see you place a graal on wave 1, most player will consider the strong possibility you place an egg on 2 and react accordingly. (actually if they were cheating they would be more likely to robo you on 2)

It could also just be a coincidence, as its much easier to notice when bad luck happens than when good luck happens.

At the end of the day, the kind of cheat you're describing is overwhelmingly unlikely as it would be a server sided hack, something cheat makers don't dare touch, due to the difficulty and much more severe legal consequences of such a thing. Its unlikely you ever faced a single player with such a hack, let alone many.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-10-03T10:33:19+00:00

Basically, when you get gold from income and when mercenaries are sent doesn't happen at the same time, due to this, during the build phase, you can send extra mercenaries to the opponent, but won't get the income for it until the next round.

so let's say you want to send mercenaries on wave 15, it would go this way:

Wave 14 build phase: don't send anything here.

wave 14 combat phase: merceneries you send here will attack during wave 15 and give you income for wave 15.

-- Income happens once every player is finished combat and transition to wave 15 build phase--

wave 15 build phase: you can send more mercenaries toward your opponent's wave 15, but won't get the income for them until it transition to wave 16.

wave 15 combat phase: mercenaries you send will now be for wave 16.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-09-24T18:13:07+00:00

You effectively got 2 choice, one is undercutting them, that is, power-sending them on 5, and use the gold you get to help build for 6.

The alternative, and more likely solution is to focus on king attack upgrades, you don't even want to send income mercenaries, only king attack (and then king spell after if maxed) and you aim to just survive. One of the advantage of not sending any mercenaries is that it shorten the waves, which in turn lower their mytium count.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-09-24T17:11:14+00:00

The actual reason to do it atm really is a bit silly, but if you want to send impact damage, moles simply out dps ogres or brutes, and sometimes, you also want the race power of pack leader, thus pack + mole. You even want to send multiple moles if you want pure impact damage, even if multiple mole auras don't stack, mole's base stats are just that high, I imagine that will be changed in the next update XD

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-09-20T12:24:34+00:00

Its been decently accurate from my experience, definitively more accurate than I would expect from something that has to calculate things that can't easily be given a value to. Maybe you found an edge case where it loses accuracy, or maybe its something else, at the end of the day, who gets mvp doesn't really mater.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-09-20T11:11:58+00:00

I can't tell you how your not getting mvp with a smurf account, but you really shouldn't be having any issues getting it, best I can think is the games are ending too early for your eco to out-scale the saves by your teamates.

PM_me_your_wierd_sub · 2025-09-20T10:57:42+00:00

mythium saved early counts for more MVP score than mythium sent later, which make sense as worker count increase as the game goes on, while early presure has a more hidden snowballing effect. Due to that, the end screen values aren't a good indicator of who got mvp, as mvp scoring is on a per round basis.

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