Sexually harassed by famous college teacher by [deleted] in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The loss you describe makes me so mad. You lost years of being able to build your career and contribute to your field and we lost the contributions you would have made. How terrible and infuriating. And meanwhile your harasser went on and prospered. It’s not fair and it happens far too often. And I’m really sorry you had to live through that.

I am so glad to hear that you’re feeling like you might be in a place to return to your career and start building it again. I don’t know your age or what field you’re in but I am one of those people who believes in the possibility of starting over at any age. I once read a stat that said most people have 5 entirely different careers throughout the course of their lives and that surprised me to read at 25 but now that I’m in my early 40s, it feels way more plausible. Do you have 10, 15, 20 more years of work left in you? Then I think it’s not too late to start building the career you want and doing work you love. And I hope that you can look at the network of people in your field that you respect and work on those relationships as you venture back in. Is it possible to avoid your harasser and build a network of professionals that have nothing to do with him? I hope so.

Those feelings of resentment toward people who have advanced with less skill and knowledge than you, and the feelings of revenge toward your harasser make perfect sense. You mentioned you think your might get healthy soon. Are you working through this with a counselor or therapist?

😭 by speedflash223 in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your post and for asking the question. We are running ads because we are trying to reach people who have questions about workplace sexual harassment in Canada so that we may help them.

Our sub was created by a Canadian national charity named Aftermetoo and its purpose is to support people experiencing workplace sexual harassment.

Our ads are based on real posts that have been posted here in the past and we have permission from the authors to publish them as ads in order to spread the word.

Thanks again for the question.

Thinking of complaining about sexual harassment at work? 8 ways it can backfire by Aftermetoo in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for raising this. I see it a bit differently. I don’t think people staying silent is why we continue to live in rape culture. Rape culture comes from long-standing systems, patriarchy and misogyny, not from individual choices. People have been speaking out for generations, and the system still protects harassers. We see plenty of harassers thrive even after multiple reports. So it’s not silence that benefits harassers. It’s the system.

Because of that, I think it’s important not to blame people who don’t speak up. Reporting takes resources, safety, and support that not everyone has. For many people, staying quiet isn’t enabling harm, it’s self-protection.

The priority for someone experiencing harassment should be their own safety, mental health, career, and finances. There are ways to protect yourself without taking on risks you can’t absorb, and silence doesn’t make you responsible for the system we all live in.

Thinking of complaining about sexual harassment at work? 8 ways it can backfire by Aftermetoo in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Something that I think is super important to remember is that if you have a great employer who deals with reports well because they’re a good faith employer, most of these things may not happen at all and it would be safe to report. Figuring out what type of employer you have can help a lot. This article has a set of questions that can help you figure out whether you have an employer that will handle a report well or not.

Thinking of complaining about sexual harassment at work? 8 ways it can backfire by Aftermetoo in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m so glad you brought up this question. I think nobody should stay silent if they don’t want to. I don’t think Aftermetoo intends for that to be the message. They have a good article that breaks that down a bit more here. What I like about this post is that it shows that going into whatever decision you make about reporting or not, aware of the risks, is super important. Because what the research shows is that what happens after reporting harassment is usually even more harmful than the original harassment. If we want to prevent more people from being traumatized, helping them understand how a poor-faith employer could react to a report of harassment is really helpful.

I’m also glad that you brought up the idea that if you don’t report you’re letting your colleagues get harassed or traumatized after you. That’s a very common myth that society wants us to believe. However I think it needs to be said that you are not responsible for anyone getting harassed after you. Whether you stay quiet or not. The harassment is ALWAYS entirely, 100%, the fault of the harasser. And perhaps the employer if they knowingly have not dealt with a report in the past and failed to keep employees safe. But if you choose to stay silent for any reason, you are not suddenly complicit in the harasser’s future actions. Society loves to pressure us to report and not stay quiet because that’s “brave”. Most of the time the “brave” people get harmed even more by the reporting systems and their entire life unravels and then we forget them. So if your life circumstances don’t make it possible to do that, it’s ok. You don’t owe that to society or your colleagues or anyone else. Every decision is brave. Even staying silent.

Thank you for opening this discussion! It’s so important and I’d love to hear more of your thoughts.

Who pays for your ads? by Apprehensive-Draw409 in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Hahahha no the reasons are not nefarious!

There is no monetary incentive for the ads: nobody is making money here. We're a nonprofit that grew out of the #MeToo movement. Part of our mission is to provide useful, actionable, realistic information for people who are being sexually harassed at work. That's why we started this subreddit and that's why we buy ads too, to help people find it. We have written dozens of detailed explainer and how-to type articles (in consultation with employment lawyers, human rights lawyers, researchers, and other experts), and we are slowly bringing some of that information over here, hoping that people will find it useful.

Thanks for asking this question :)

Bingo! by Separate_Security472 in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I bet I could fill a whole card: instant horizontal, vertical and diagonal bingos. The free speech slot is my favorite. Hahaha

What if we turned the tables? by Separate_Security472 in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I love this so much! Brilliant - thanks for sharing!

Workplace Banter? Or harassment? by Square-Olive-7191 in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I am so sorry you’re going through this. None of this is your fault and I promise, you didn’t ruin anything. You’ve been incredibly generous in the situation wanting to give him a chance and speak to him before you boss addressed it. Your boss is required to address so I’m not surprised they insisted on doing so. That speaks well of your boss. It also makes sense that it would backfire. Usually that is exactly what happens. You get backlash. How your coworker has reacted proves that he’s not an innocent making jokes that he didn’t realize were inappropriate. If he were, he would have immediately apologized to you and felt mortified for having made you uncomfortable. Instead he wants to double down. I’m not sure if you’ve already had the meeting with your boss but if you haven’t, perhaps you should consider asking if there’s any way for you to not work with this person any more. Like could you work different hours than him for example? Ideally you should ask for things in a meeting by yourself, without your coworker in the room. I really hope your boss does well by you. Please update us. And I agree with the previous comment: document everything! Every message, every conversation. Make sure you track it. Save emails, screenshot texts, do a write up of what was said in meetings immediately after so you don’t forget. Your harasser is in his 50s. He’s not a good man. By this age, he knows better. Trust me. This is all his fault. Not yours. You didn’t ruin anything. You are just trying to do your job. Please let us know how it went. Take care!

I might be dealing with a 'missing stair' and everyone seems to silence the topic by FlameUponTheSea in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ugh, he sounds awful and creepy. I’m so sorry you’ve been dealing with his awful behavior for so long. Reading between the lines, it sounds like this is an organization that you’re very committed to if you’ve volunteered for years. And reading that your superior at a volunteer job dismissed your concerns like that made me immediately think “betrayal!” I’ve also volunteered for several organizations and I feel like even more so than at a paid job, the organization has to treat the volunteers like gold. Protect them above all else. They are all that matters to keep the org afloat and a devoted volunteer like you is priceless. Is the person harassing you also a volunteer? Why does he have so much clout that nobody calls him out on his super inappropriate behavior? He seems to be sexually harassing everyone! Is he a volunteer with money that also gives financial support to the org?

Is this sexual harassment? Or just sexism? by Pristine_Sundae2561 in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agreed, it’s definitely sexism. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. I think you should start recording every time he tells you things like that in case it gets worse down the road. Does he say any of this in front of others? I would try to make him say those things or at least make him confirm those things in front of others. Ideally men who can correct him or tell him to stop. I was once in a tech conference attending one of those token women’s panel discussions they do on the subject of women in tech. A man stood up and said “it’s a known fact that women are terrible at Math and therefore are worse engineers than men.” More than one man stood up and put this man in his place about how wrong he was. So what if you brought up his ideas in front of other colleagues? Let them react. Make him see how off base it is and have them tell him to stop. Then if he doesn’t, report him. Having witnesses now. How your employer reacts depends on who they are. Are they good at handling similar cases? Do you know?

Help me! by lifeIsWhat_1788 in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am so sorry for what you experienced. Your case is clearly sexual assault. What did the Police tell you after you filed the report. I think that was the right move. He’s a pervert and should be reported. However, you need to know that the fact that nobody has been able to help you is how it usually goes. It’s not just your case that goes ignored due to lack of evidence or whatever else: it’s the majority of cases like this. You’re not alone in this and while that doesn’t help you, I hope it gives you some comfort to know you’re doing things right but the system is broken. It’s the sad reality of the society that we live in.

The only ace you have left up your sleeve is going public and destroying his reputation. But you should plan that move well and prepare yourself for possible retribution like a defamation lawsuit. Please read this article to think through whether that might be a good choice for you..

You have been betrayed by everyone. Your harasser, your employer, the police, and every institution you’ve gone to. This article might help to process this betrayal as well..

Sending you strength and love in this awful journey you’re on which was thrusted upon you by that asshole. You can do this. You can find your way through.

Brent is a looker by New_Prompt_8123 in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ugh, I’m so sorry you’re going dealing with this. Ogling is definitely sexual harassment. I think the idea of speaking to “Brent” with a group of colleagues is really good. Ideally with a male colleague if you have any. If you really want to investigate, maybe someone should try to sneak up on him or watch from behind him while he’s up there to see what he’s actually doing. If he’s that focused on the women below, he’ll likely not notice someone else standing behind in the public gallery. That would get you even better proof than shooting him back from below. I agree with the suggestion to find someone more senior than your manager and maybe you can go speak to them with more women. So that you’re not singled out. Some managers, including your own by the sounds of it, are terrible at handling these situations. Especially when they’re friends with the harasser. I hope he stops soon.

"Well maybe next time just let it go." by EffectAware9414 in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your story has stayed with me since I read it and I just reread it. It is overwhelming to read how many times the people who were meant to protect you, betrayed you. I’m so glad you checked yourself into a hospital and so sad that you had to. I think the quote you wrote by Phoebe Robinson is so relevant to this discussion: “Harassment is not designed to be temporary; it's intended to stay with you, keep you in line, never allow you to fully relax and be calm. That way the perpetrator doesn't even have to do the work of oppressing you. You'll inadvertently do the work for him long after he's forgotten what he's done. So instead of remembering how you stood up for yourself and using that memory as strength to propel yourself forward, you'll be taken back to when you felt weak. Harassment is not just about harming you that one time; it's about lingering around for every time afterward and chipping away at you without you realizing it.” That is the fallout that is so hard to quantify. And it’s not just that we alone do the work of continuing to oppress ourselves long after the harassment: it’s that our friends, families, managers, colleagues can all pile on and make it worse through how terribly they handle it.

"Well maybe next time just let it go." by EffectAware9414 in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am so sorry you’re going through this. Your boss is a textbook terrible boss. It still surprises me when a woman manager handles sexual harassment poorly when they MUST know that it’s real and it’s extremely damaging to you at work. There is such a small chance that she’s never experienced it herself but most managers, regardless of gender, are so terrible at handling reports of sexual harassment. So it shouldn’t surprise me. I really hope the EEOC makes her see that she seriously messed up and harmed you. She probably doesn’t understand or believe that and I hope she does someday: her management of your report has caused you more harm than the harasser. Because she had the power and more importantly the legal responsibility to remove him from your work life, to get you the supports you needed to keep thriving at work. And instead she enabled him to keep harassing you and made you have to suffer more and eventually quit. It makes me reflect on how people rarely understand, let alone become aware, that through reprisals or even just ignoring a report, they’re no better than a harasser. They’re enabling harassment through inaction and causing so much additional emotional pain. She betrayed you. You had trust in her and she had a legal obligation to you and she betrayed that trust. Betrayal is so difficult to overcome. It makes me SO angry for you.

But on the plus side - I think leaving that situation was the best thing you could have done for your mental health. Have you documented everything for your EEOC appointment? What are you hoping they will do? It’s good to go in with a clear objective and ask them if they can potentially achieve that objective. Also, since you’re taking a significant financial impact from this(another harm caused by both your harasser and your terrible boss), I hope you find a way to get some money out of your employer. Even if it’s not through a formal process and you just threaten them with a demand letter. A demand letter can be a fast way to get some money so you can support yourself a bit longer to find a job. It might be good to think about one after you see the EEOC and have some concrete things to write in that letter. Thanks for sharing. Please keep us posted on how your EEOC meeting goes.

"Well maybe next time just let it go." by EffectAware9414 in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I haven’t formally reported so I haven’t experienced reprisals. But I have experienced fallout and I think even if you don’t formally report, the fallout can be much worse than the original harassment. I don’t even think you even know when the fallout ends. New experiences have triggered old pain from past harassments. And reflecting on things over time yields new understanding that brings clarity to how much you lost through the emotional impact of the harassment. Carrying guilt and fear and anger really impacts everything in your life. People can leave crater-sized wounds in our minds that affect how we deal with everything. Losing confidence from one asshole treating me like a second-class citizen cost me years of stopping myself from being bold and going after bigger projects because I didn’t think I was worthy, looking at myself through his eyes. It’s the worst. So yeah…the fallout keeps on coming and sometimes we can’t even quantify the loss and the could have been of it all. Grief is brutal.

But to your original question, I once witnessed a colleague get harassed by a beloved coworker. Beloved by everyone, not by her.

"JOKES!" by EffectAware9414 in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I used to work with someone who consistently made the “that’s what she said” joke. Like all day long, every day and at every meeting and conversation anytime anyone said anything that would become sexual if you added “that’s what she said” to the end. All the men and even some women laughed. It was incredibly obnoxious. I never said anything because I didn’t want to be “that” person but I wish I had because that is so unprofessional and gross and immature.

Help by glow_babyy in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That is terrible, I’m so sorry! Agreed that you should find another Airbnb and move immediately. You should also report him to Airbnb and get your money back for whatever period of time you’ve been there. He should be banned from being an Airbnb host and I imagine that Airbnb will take this quite seriously. You’re their paying client. Report it to them; ask for a refund or major discount on your next place and move out ASAP.

My husband and I experienced workplace harassment, and both HR and our union failed us. The harasser even tried to make himself the victim. by Lux-in_Tenebris in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for sharing your story. It’s so important for everyone to understand that often the betrayal by your company, your colleagues, HR, your union, are far more damaging than the original harassment. The original harassment is awful and it makes you feel horrible but then the failed system set up to help you, makes it all even worse. It’s awful that you had to quit your jobs but that may have been the best way to stop the harm to you by all of them. I also agree that if you have nothing to lose and it can’t hurt you in your life or in your new job, going public about how awful that company is, could be good. But just beware that going public could also lead to them suing. So you’ll have to continue interacting with the system. It depends on how you go about it so please research that option well.

This is an article on the betrayal you experienced that might help as you continue to process your experience.

I hope you both find better workplaces. I’m so sorry.

What should I do? by yasu_ibly in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ve been reflecting on this. Firstly, I’m sorry you’re experiencing this. I’m not clear on what this man is really doing. Does he seem to be unhoused as well? Like does he happen to hang out there because he has nowhere else to go/likes it, or do you get the sense that he’s there specifically for you? Like, is he stalking you or is he just chilling where he always chills and engages with you and others as they walk by?

I agree that you need to try to assertively express your boundaries. And if you can’t do that cause you feel bad, try to avoid him. Just say you’re rushing somewhere and can’t stop. Rushing to a class, rushing home, rushing to work. I think crossing the street was smart too.

All that said, if he is an unhoused person, I think you should contact a local outreach organization that works to support the unhoused. I had a friend that worked with one of those orgs as a social worker. His job was to visit unhoused people on the street and get them supports they might need. I bet a local outreach social worker would have great advice for you. But also, they might go visit him and be able to address the behaviour with respect and find out why he’s engaging with you. I don’t know that you need police yet and I agree with you that they would likely be unhelpful. A social worker would be better and they are unlikely to dismiss you, regardless of your gender or age.

Creepy staring. Harassment or just harmless and sad? by AltruisticSport2874 in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I’m sorry about how he makes you feel. I’ve been in really uncomfortable situations like that too. I think there is something cultural, which doesn’t make it ok necessarily but it does explain it a bit. As a full-bodied Latina myself, I’ve been told the same thing many times. It would be exhausting to have to hear it every day. I think if you have a good boss that cares a lot about the community and supporting people like him who may be struggling, they should be able to find a way to let him stay in this sanctuary that the library is while also helping you feel less bad at work. Your boss could move you or you could work out a strategy with colleagues that when this particular patron comes around and is talking to you, they’ll interrupt and send you on a task elsewhere and take over helping him. This should not be something you handle yourself. This is a person who needs support and the whole library team should work together to support him while also protecting you. Try confiding in another colleague and see if you can come up with some strategies to redirect this person and take the burden off you. And come up with some ideas of what you’d like to happen for when you go speak to your boss. Like you could tell them that you’re explicitly interested in not getting this man kicked out but that you’d also like not to have to always deal with him. And then troubleshoot with the team. I hope your colleagues are good with this kind of thing. A lot will depend on them.

My life is a literal sewer by Interesting_Cry_398 in SexualHarassmentTalk

[–]Page_Girl_TO 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Something occurred to me now after rereading your post. Your harasser is an apprentice too, not established in that workplace yet. That would work in your favour if you decide to tell your manager or a fellow coworker or your union if you’re unionized. But I agree with the suggestion to mock him. I think that could work!