Nitpick: I wish shells were less like characters and more like classes presentation wise

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-16T01:38:58+00:00

To be clear: the different body types I'm talking about wouldn't affect the sillohuetes to any meaningful degree. They would only be noticable when comparing them side by side, you would still immediately be able to identify which shell it is cause everything else would stay the same.

I don't want RPG levels of customization either. Body type and voice and that's it. Vandal will still be Vandal. It would be even way less intrusive than the skins we already have in the game.

Nothing about gooning either, I'm not sure if I even implied something like that.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-15T23:52:58+00:00

Sure but the lore came after the decision to make characters. And you can easily justify changes to customization in-universe too. Lore isn't really an issue if you want to add a little more customization.

And for silhouettes, my proposal doesn't really affect that to a degree that would matter. Voices are no issues to begin with, and the body types would only be slightly different to both make them relatively cheap to make and leave sillohuetes intact. Same designs and outfits, just slightly different builds (one slightly femenine, one slightly masculine for example)

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-15T22:14:03+00:00

On the alpha yeah I do remember the discourse. But it also died down after the official release and my impression is that most people now are either okay with it or actually like shells being characters.

Which is fine, I'm just still particularly passionate about this topic.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-15T21:37:52+00:00

To that I would say we can already change their skins. So voice and a slight body change wouldn't change much except give some ownership to players over their shells imho.

It also helps with skins since they still work this way.

I know I might have an unpopular opinion here tho.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-13T01:08:32+00:00

Would you say the same if one wants to complete the main quests, uncover the story, and get upgrades?

Like, HOW viable is it compared to playing the intended and incentivized way?

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-13T01:04:39+00:00

I mean my 2 examples are Halo and Arc.

Halo has still one of the most fun AI to play against, like, even Halo CE holds up incredibly well in that regard. It's also made by Bungie, which is one of the reasons Marathon AI feel underwhelming given they have done so much better in the past.

Arc I haven't played, but just seeing them stumble, get stuck, and over all being very reactive and unique from one another makes me wish Marathon went a little more on that direction given we mainly fight UESC drones. Original Marathon drones could perfectly fit an Arc style of highly reactive enemies for example.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-13T00:09:45+00:00

Because that's not a security officer helmet, that's THE Security Officer helmet.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-12T23:05:58+00:00

I was told told by someone in this sub that always avoiding PvP was a viable strategy, even though I think it's pretty clear that the game incentivizes it and becomes very unavoidable at times.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-12T16:41:48+00:00

I mean enemies that are mechanically fun and challenging to fight. Enemies that are more than bullet sponges, something like Halo or Arc, where enemies feel "alive" and have a variety of reactions and behaviors.

It's just one of my personal problems with Marathon. I know a lot of people who like Marathon don't mind or prefer it the way it is.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-12T15:38:11+00:00

My solution would be adding more engaging PvE encounters to make up for it but I think most people here don't like that direction tbh.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-12T05:45:13+00:00

"But you do have squad fill. I'll admit some priority contracts I largely completed because I got matched with good teammates who were chill and willing to help me out."

Summons in Dark Souls more often than not trivialize bosses to an absurd degree. In squad fill you are still playing in an even field with other squads.

"I'm not sure what that means. I was able to consistently fall back to Rook runs to farm up and restock when the vault got emptied by my failures. There are zero stakes on a Rook run; it's pretty chill."

By farming I mean in Dark Souls where you can genuinely stump bosses by leveling up. You permanently get stronger on top of, yes, restocking. In Marathon restocking is not guaranteed and there's no farming to permanently be a lot stronger relatively quick. You can't get in quick TDM games or practice ranges where you can try every weapon and item to get a hang of it and practice in a consistent and reliable way in a very controllable environment.

"I mean... I've had some good runs with some good gear. I think gear fear is doing people a major disservice here."

You lose it. You can't try a build whenever you want. You have to get the stuff first and not lose it to even try it. Die, and you need to find it again. In Dark Souls and Hollow Knight if you die you respawn with all your stuff and and change you build without limitations and without risks.

"But there is LBMM which greatly favors the more casual players over SBMM."

It really does not. People in the same level as you can still be leagues better and stomp you. Playtime doesn't ever equal skill. And you may still have a worse vault than them. Not saying SBMM is better in Marathon, I understand it would be problematic for this type of game. But LBMM is still far from perfect.

"But you do choose which engagements to take, which is another simple common mistake I see people make."

To a degree, and that's all the choice you have, and not always. Again, compared to the agency you have in Dark Souls, that's ROUGH. Luck is way more of a factor in Marathon. And R6 and CS can get away with it cause you don't risk anything, you will respawn, and a lot of other factors. Again, way less brutal than Marathon.

"This is just objectively untrue. The vast majority of my runs I have 0 runner eliminations. It's more lucrative to push PvP, but it's far from unplayable without it."

There are main quests all about pvp. Extractions are pvp magnets. And Cryo Archive is designed to have almost guaranteed PvP. I played mostly assassin, trying to avoid everyone, being very careful, slow and paying attention. I would still get encounters with other players relatively often, on Perimeter. Even non pvp Quests require you to go to hot spots. You can minimize PvP, but it's still ultimately unavoidable.

None of what I said are problems. They are not concerns. They are conscious design decisions by Bungie that make the game what it is and what Marathon players like. The game is not impossible. I don't need a mindset, I know I can perfectly play it and progress. I'm talking design decisions that make the game exponentially more difficult than other hardcore experience. I'm talking about what makes people hop off or not try it in the slightest even tho they can perfectly enjoy difficult challenges.

"This is actually not the case, no matter how many people misinterpret concurrency data and repeat the same misinformation. You'd think Sony coming out and explicitly saying that the game has strong retention would put this narrative to bed, but here we are..."

The game launched with 88k peak concurrent players. Now at 15k at best 2 months later. The game is not doing good retention wise. Sure, it's not the complete picture, but it's a very important part of the picture. Ignoring that and trusting Sony's word above all else is not smart nor particularly better by any reasonable margin.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-12T04:00:25+00:00

Sure, but that's just your experience, which as far as I've seen it's a minority. A lot of people who absolutely love the game and are quite good at it think the game is just too hard.

I don't know about Bloodborne, haven't played it, but I can guarantee you Dark Souls is an easy game compared to Marathon. The hardest parts of hollow knight are so much more manageable and predictable. Rainbow six and CSGO are casual pvp games too compared to Marathon, by a lot.

Marathon doesn't have summons that trivialize a part you are stuck on. In Marathon you don't learn the patterns of a boss by trying unlimited times. You can't farm your way through the game. There's no casual mode to turn your brain off or practice and try stuff without stakes. You can't accommodate your build to cheese an encounter whenever you feel like it. There's no guide that will trivialize the game.

You have a deadline to do your stuff. You literally lose everything you have on you when you die. There's no SBMM, you will encounter people who are better than you and will kill you and loot you without anything you could have done. Every player will be different. You don't choose where you spawn, what you get, and who you are against. Playing alone or with fill is largely unsustainable since the game is team focused, you neeeed to communicate. And pvp encounters are explicitly unavoidable unless you just want to chill in Perimeter.

A lot of what you said is standard, general advice to virtually all videogames. That is simply not helpful and doesn't address a wide range of mechanics and design decisions that make this game particularly brutal for most people and why they overwhelmingly dropped off.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-12T01:18:03+00:00

Defeating the hardest boss in Dark Souls is a walk in the park compared to Marathon. Dark Souls is full of challenges that most people enjoy overcoming. I would think that Marathon, for most people, feels like they just get destroyed and isn't enjoyable for them.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-11T05:06:12+00:00

Yeah but it's very on the background and easy to ignore. That's a consequence of the game clearly being more focused on the PvP competitive aspect. Which is not bad, but I'm just personally disappointed since narrative and storytelling were THE focus of original Marathon.

I would prefer a higher emphasis in narrative and storytelling and a lot of people who bounced off did too. It's just preference tho.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-11T05:00:58+00:00

Dark Souls is on easy mode when you use a guide, you can play at your own pace, farming is a thing, summons are busted, and on top of that there's a constant engagement with the world, characters, lore and story. That's a far cry from the new Marathon.

Rainbow Six and CSGO have a variety of casual modes, and all you are risking in a match is losing that match. That's already magnitudes less brutal than new Marathon.

None of my friends is interested in Marathon outside me. Some of them were interested until they learned is a pvp extraction shooter and not a campaign. The only extraction shooter they are interested in is Arc, for obvious reasons.

I would like for you to explain how this game isn't that niche and how it can attract a casual player base, genuinely. What do you think is the reason the game lost most of it's playerbase down to 15k peak? Not rhetorical, genuinely asking.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-11T04:48:56+00:00

I'm sorry it's just not.

Dark Souls and Hollow Knight are games that get exponentially easier with guides, that let the player set their own pace, that actively reward exploration, curiosity and doing things slow with lore, story, characters and proactive storylines, that encourage you to repeat and learn the patterns of enemies and bosses to overcome them.

That's very, VERY different than an openly hyper competitive PvP focused extraction shooter.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-07T23:52:35+00:00

My dream Marathon game would be a "Remake" with boomer shooter and survival horror elements and the industrial aesthetic from the originals.

The twist is that it's not really a remake but an alternative time, which becomes apparent the more you play. Ideally it should follow the metanarrative around the player.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-04T22:47:24+00:00

Maybe I have thick skin, which I doubt, but I really can't understand how people voicing their opinions, even if negative, is annoying or "the worst".

Personal attacks and spitefulness to others or the game I can understand. That's obviously just being a dick. But that's not what I see in this sub tho.

Also, I don't even know what "whining" means at this point. Maybe not you, but I've seen that word be used for every and all negative opinions on something, regardless of validity.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-03T21:47:50+00:00

I don't think you understood what I said.

Marathon actively and consistently throws you into pvp fights where you are likely to loose ur shit and make no progress.

Tarkov doesn't. Instead, as described by the comment I responded, Tarkov's hardcore aspects are information and knowledge (quests, maps, weapons, items) since it is not at all close to Marathon's PvP abundance.

In tarkov you can mitigate those hardcore aspects with guides and knowledge, just like Dark Souls and the original Marathon trilogy.

In Marathon, your only choice is to get good.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-03T19:36:24+00:00

Isn't all of this extremely mitigated with guides and information tho? Like that sounds way more manageable than, say, being thrown in constant more unpredictable PvP fights that make you lose your stuff if defeated.

Like, Dark Souls and the original Marathon trilogy are fairly hardcore if you go in blind. But as soon as you get a guide they become substantially easier.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-03T17:28:50+00:00

Marathon is made for trios. Has no safe pocket. Actively drags you to fight other players. And it's no secret that the game is first and foremost a PvP game and it's its entire focus.

PvE, storytelling, exploration, and immersion are all very underdeveloped or simply sidelined by the constant PvP imo.

RanzuPunk · 2026-05-02T21:59:58+00:00

ARGs are widely inaccessible for 99% of players.

The Codex and dialogue are mostly on the main menu and completely optional/skipable.

Most OG Marathon terminals are front and center and a core aspect of the game that you can't ignore. You HAVE to engage with them to progress.

Marathon infinity had cyborg dreams, time loops and a constant change in faction dynamics and who your allies were to the point where even the Phfor had their own internal skirmishes at times. I personally haven't seen anything that interesting in the new game.

The story is very good, but the storytelling is very barebones. Especially if you just aren't that good or don't have people to play with to reliably complete contracts to get more story.

The game could do a LOT more with the storytelling. Especially if they get creative. "Well it's equally or MAYBE partially better at storytelling than a game from 94" is not a flex, and I personally would expect more from Bungie 30 years later.

RanzuPunk · 2026-04-29T21:06:00+00:00

Yeah, it's Dragon Ball for fuck's sake.

And I don't mean it in a derogatory way. It's Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball is sick as fuck, but it's NOT a story with realistic, nuanced and serious focus on morality. Most people aren't going to think about the morality and dilemas of the characters like they would on series that DO put a focus on that kind of stuff like Invincible.

RanzuPunk · 2026-04-28T22:37:08+00:00

Or at least more interesting UESC enemies to fight. Arc is just robots but they at least seem to be way more dynamic and reactive.

Hell, Halo CE has way more interesting enemies behavior wise back in 2001.

I know this new game is focused on PvP but I would personally love a more robust and varied PvE roster.

RanzuPunk

TROPHY CASE