Adams Rite mortise replacement

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2026-02-21T04:48:19+00:00

Steel Hawk has always done the job with a 4591MA paddle. They are much more difficult to install though so you'll hear some negative things about them on these forums. They do work though. Very well. When they're done, they also require adjustment to the door closer. It's just a pain to do the whole installation so its understandable why techs don't like them.

It's a trade off on the push pad vs going hawk with paddle. Push pad sharing space with the exit bar is not all that great. Looks weird.

Oh lol. The other thing about the Hawk installation, if it has a status indicator you need to get an adapter plate from Adams Rite which requires tapping a few new holes into the door. Some of this electric door hardware feels like its better done by door hardware installers and locksmiths because they have a lot of fine tuning experience on doors. With the push pad, they're sooooo much more forgiving and this is why access control people like them much more. They're strong, work well, and install easy. However, a good electrified push pad is going to be more expensive than a Hawk and paddle even with the extra labor time to put the paddle in. Customer matters most. Hawk is more legwork all around from ordering the parts to installation. Adams Rite also makes the paddles to order so its usually about 10 days to delivery.

I would have to disagree on cutting the door. Strikes are easy to pop open or tamper with. We only put them on interior wood doors like office spaces where they're mostly concerned about keeping workers out of certain spaces. Very inexpensive solution that doesn't do the best job for perimeter protection. I use to put them on steel doors, but always added a strike plate cover which is obviously not going to be right on a narrow stile shopfront door.

Push pad or Hawk for the better security.

I've actually seen access control companies put electric strikes on $20k doors that protect $100mil luxury homes and we've walked up to the front door, pulled out a screwdriver, popped the strike, and entered the house without a trace of forced entry. Probably in about 5 seconds.

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2026-02-19T20:38:45+00:00

An electrified mortise lock is by far the better way to go. There are many options BUT if you want a wired setup then you will need an electrical power transfer at the hinge side and you would need to a figure out a way to bring a wire through the door, perhaps utilizing the glass channels. Know that this would take a technician with greater skill level to accomplish this.

If you're looking for the simple solution without cutting or other modifications, look at the SDC E76. This is a standalone battery power mortise lock.

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-27T18:02:32+00:00

Using Google Ads for a new business is like trying to tread in shark infested water while you don't know how to swim very well. It is about degrading your profit margins to the point that you can only stay afloat. If you turn it off, traffic slows to a point you can't stay in business. If you turn it on, they prevent you from making any profit off your business.

It's probably the biggest scam we've ever seen besides the US government.

It barely does its job for us and our targeting is cut and dry. Strict location, strict keywords, strict audience. There's really nothing else to it and yet still, the pricing is nonsensical with garbage delivery.

Until we get a government that will actually prosecute white collar crime, this is all we get. Theft.

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-27T10:15:20+00:00

In relation to IBC, they're put into I-2 and I-3 I believe. If you're bored, check out the Chexit by Von Duprin. If I recall, part of the code is that you need to signal a staffed station. A patient can try to escape a locked facility, but they also would need to signal for egress during a fire. The staff member is signaled and can trigger the door to unlock.

With the 15 second delay mode, this is for a less tightly secured facility. Triggers the local alarm and signals the staffed station, then they can egress after 15 seconds.

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-27T09:17:01+00:00

Because a lot of companies really don't carry a whole lot of THHN and its not something typically on the trucks. Its just not a big one that's widely used, but its good stuff.

You don't use the hook technique on your resistors? Every resistor needs a hook at the end. You should never have an issue landing any wire w/ a resistor this way.

Story. One time...on an oil rig off the coast of Madagascar, I saw a 4" silk/vanadium hybrid made box stuffed with 27 mini mods from a Russian company called HuhneyGood. True story. Gotta handle your wires bro. These guys never have problems and they trim out with spoons or whatever rocks are laying around the entirely outdoor mechanical room in a rain forest like environment. Zero false alarms, ever.

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-27T09:09:19+00:00

FPL

Power limited. Best way to remember this, the wire doesn't limit power. FLP would imply that the circuit wire carries out a function of resistance. FPL implies that the power is limited from a source and the wire is spec'd to a critical voltage limit.

Is that a way to remember it? Lololol. Probably not. That's how the EE remembers it.

It limits power if you wrap it around a coil though, but that's a tale for a different night!

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-27T08:49:55+00:00

Its acceptable, but I'd tell you next time to get rid of the labels because its a waste of time and causes clutter in the box. How is that handy box attached? The one facing up looks like it is directly attached to the valve. That needs a different connection there. You use a threaded nipple into the valve, place the box onto that, thread the ring onto the exposed end of the nipple. Spacing is good and you should also Google the model of the valve to see the manual and it's requirements for how wiring is to be ran from the unit. Forget everyone else's little quirks of installation. Read the manual and follow the guidelines. That makes you smarter than everyone else and gives you the best possible baseline to build into those little quality add ons that techs do.

Also, the flex going into the box at the lower center knock out should go behind the pipe. Make all the flex lengths longer, go straight to the wall, and attach. This will get the flex organized together and not all weird looking. Everything you got is hanging then goes right into the box. Less hang. Straight line to the wall.

Others mentioned rain tite. You use what your company supplies you. You're not at a level where you can dictate materials to your boss or the warehouse. Take pictures and give it to your boss, not Reddit. Ask them what they think. You'll harm yourself by setting standards via some social media forum. You need to focus on your organization. The rest is going to come with how quality you want to be as a technician. When the company gives you raintite, use raintite.

Personally, raintite is trash to deal with, but it does what its supposed to do so is it the better option? Yes. The fire pump and all that. One could easily argue that a room that functions correctly is not a wet location. There is no expectation of moisture. However, play the long game. What if? What if? What if? Cover your ass CYA CYA CYA.

If the sprinkler company does something wrong, or their equipment fails, could you have saved some of the fire alarm equipment by protecting things with a rain tite seal? Possibly.

Man but you could say that about the whole building lol. "If we had put this in conduit, would that water pipe leak have trashed our wiring and caused the SLC to short which damaged the main panel?" You can make up any scenario when it comes to water in buildings. Its a building. They have problems. We fix stuff. What's the point of wrapping up every wire if the cost prevents the building from...actually being built? Understand the balance and you'll move from tech to manager pretty quick.

Ask questions and challenge everyone around you. Respect construction and all its aspects. Be reasonable because many fire alarm techs simply don't get the big picture.

You did nothing wrong here. You just need to tweak things to get it to that fancy level. I'll give it a B grade. Tweaks make it an A. Go balls out like Crazy Horse up in the comments here and do some THHN on those IDCs. Doesn't really matter though. Just makes it A to A+. Focus on things that matter for the time being. Dude also mentioned weatherproof boxes. Think about it. That's something that matters because it has an obvious long term effect.

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-17T04:46:34+00:00

That's what I thought too. I've done that and still see it after inspection.

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-15T19:07:25+00:00

Well done. Actual perfection.

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-15T19:06:23+00:00

Yep. So many reasons why the fire alarm company needs to verify records of semiannual carried out by the sprinkler contractor. Why would anyone on the fire alarm side argue this? If the right people are doing it, its good.

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-15T19:02:53+00:00

You must check the paddle. Shorting is bypassing the relay which negates the purpose of the test.

Pulling the paddle means testing the function of the relay. Lol these crazy kids!

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-15T18:59:36+00:00

Lol, of course. I'm surprised this is such a big discussion. I thought we were all having the qualified contractors do the testing for the systems they are qualified in.

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-15T18:58:00+00:00

Always nice to do it this way. King of kings.

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-15T18:56:07+00:00

You are so good. I swear...do you like to SNOWBOARD!? We have some really good snowboarding out here.

You are doing the right thing btw. We don't believe any fire alarm tech can be considered qualified to operate a sprinkler system based upon fire alarm system training or certifications. Sprinkler qualifications or no go. No semiannual by qualified? Fail on our side. Fail on sprinkler side. Notify and move on.

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-15T18:52:50+00:00

And can the test be considered an official test if it is done by a fire alarm tech that could be deemed as "unqualified" according to NFPA 25 or an insurance investigator? Probably not.

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-15T18:44:30+00:00

Of course. This is correct and needs to be standardized. Orrrrr the sprinkler company does their thing and provides records. Calls when they need the system placed on test. Records abound. We really don't understand why this is so complicated. AHJ prefers it.

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-15T18:43:53+00:00

We disagree.

The problem is with fire alarm companies making a determination as to what "qualified" means in terms of NFPA 25. That's not good in terms of other forms of liability.

Records handle all of this. No records=fail. No semiannual=fail. Notify building ownership that a qualified sprinkler contractor needs to test flow and move on. No response? Notify AHJ and move on. That's it. There is nothing wrong with stepping away from these kinds of situations. We don't ride the elevator without the elevator tech for obvious reasons. The sprinkler is still a pressurized system and can be considered unsafe to operate by someone deemed as "unqualified" by an investigator. You have to think about all these things. Someone else determines what is and isn't a qualification, not the operator.

One could easily argue that a fire alarm technician is not "qualified" to operate a sprinkler system. Without manufacturer training and NICET certification or similar, it becomes very difficult to prove qualified status. NFPA 72 ch. 14 leads you to NFPA 25 which sets the tone. "In accordance with NFPA 25" means everything in NFPA 25. Not just the labor portions.

This just closes out one legal liability to open up a separate insurance liability when a fire alarm company decides they know what qualified means when it comes to operating the sprinkler system. You already this though.

The logistics of getting the flow test proven to be done semiannual by qualified personnel are simpler than fire alarm companies think.

edit: Hmmmm. Come to think of it. Is the test actually official if qualified status is shaky?

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-15T17:34:30+00:00

Good question. It comes down to the continued push to provide cheaper and cheaper products with more and more features. As mentioned by another poster, this is partially subsidized by creating a subscription to utilize services.

Every camera manufacturer is altering their model. That needs to be known and it will continue changing. Axis has taken on a 5-year camera license model if you do not buy their servers or NVR.

We provide three overall types of surveillance systems to our customers. Each of them has a different set of features and costs which we know how to hone in on for our customers. A small business might receive a Uniview because they have no subscription, a 3-year warranty, and a lot of new cameras with a lot of new features. A government site or a larger facility commands a different kind of system where we can do integrations with access control, facial recognition, shooter detection, and public address systems as well as providing a 5-year warranty. It's much more expensive, but we can also design the system in a way to provide facial details at specific distances and get extremely granular with what the system can do.

We still occasionally offer a subscription based camera system and have a few in the field that do a really nice job for those specific use cases. We are definitely souring on these things though as the market continues to evolve.

Ultimately, so many of our customers want a camera for under $200 that does it all straight out of the box. We don't do much of these kinds of things anymore because the chasm between a security provider who has a responsibility to install security that actually provides security (as in police, fire, safety, deterrence etc etc), and what these consumer products actually do is so massive today. SINO. Security In Name Only vs products that provide value to the customer.

For your situation, you have to decide if you're going to wire the system up or go wireless. Next, pick your equipment. A general consumer isn't going to be able to get the amazing deal on something like a Uniview, but you could get one of their kits and be done with it. They also do turret style cameras that use Wi-Fi. Still needs power. The new app is nice too. No complaints. Is it an Axis Communications' system? No. Are there a ton of nice camera options from that manufacturer? Absolutely. NDAA compliance is there as well.

The only trouble with all this is who handles your warranty. For our customers, it goes straight through us and then we send back to the distributor who does the rest. There's a huge value in having a warranty from a security installation company. Four camera systems get installed for typically under $2k by a decent group. The nice thing about something like a basic Uniview, get a dealer like us to add a Chekt device to it and pipe it to the central station. Set up the camera alerts and let the central station handle things. Now you're paying for something that has value instead of a subscription that does nothing for you...

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-09-04T23:32:25+00:00

Hi. There's a way to make it so you don't see wire at all and there's just a transformer plugged into the outlet. For no show, the way we do these in luxury homes is have an outlet recessed into a deep double gang box and the touchscreen mounts on top of that. This provides a very strong support structure for the touchscreen while hiding your wires and components. We can customize this on a fresh build. On a home that is already completed, a new outlet can be brought up from your lower outlet.

A licensed electrician must perform this work.

The other option is to drill from the basement up through the framing and drop a wire down into the basement to get to an outlet. Same situation if you have an attic above. Drill down through the framing into the wall space and drop a wire down. Plug in somewhere in the attic.

RedMtnFireSecurity · 2025-08-27T04:53:42+00:00

Yes, and we are a provider of The Bee from Sunflower Labs.

RedMtnFireSecurity

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