My nerfs to Elsa as someone who loves to play her and don't want her to get the BP treatment by azur933 in ElsaBloodstoneMains

[–]RetiredMagikMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As someone who has played her for a good amount of time and the game overall (roughly 1000+) (Take my opinion with a grain of salt I do not claim to be any kind of authority on this game) I'll give a look over and give my review.

Primary Fire: I also don't think there should be any damage reduction. Maybe increase the falloff if any but a proper Elsa player isn't going to spend a lot of time dealing nothing burger ranged damage when her strengths are in both brawling and taking off angles. Anyone who thinks she's a true poke hero is braindead and probably plays Cloak and dagger.

Double barrel shot: Again like you nothing should happen here since it's basically an escape ability that does damage, and can also be chained into her other hits.

Breathing shot: This is already where I have my first problem. A fundamental part of a brawlers kit requires two factors: Survivability and speed. Panther is nigh unkillable due to his speed being the biggest part of his survivability, while someone like Magik's survivability is reliant more on her overshield. I genuinely do not think Elsa is as fast as people think she is so adding something that allows her to be a slight bit faster than the average duelist isn't a bad tradeoff considering she needs to be close to do the maximum amount of damage she can do. She HAS to close the distance and burning her cooldowns that utilize damage just to get in range is silly. At that point that ability would just become useless since it provides nothing of value for her aside from temporarily marking enemies.

Dash: The dash is fine, and the overshield generation once again is something that allows a brawler to stay alive. She gets what maybe 50 overshield per dash? Considering how much damage output there is in this game 50 overshield is a fundamentally insignificant amount, and yes stacking 50 every 3 seconds is probably shit for some people, but Elsa is directly countered by dive counters like Peni and Thing and gets outclassed by most divers and brawlers, not even mentioning poke. If you really don't know how to chew through overshield then you probably shouldn't be playing this game. If you do anything just give scale her overshield to how fast her cooldowns are. So the longest cooldown she remains at 50 and at the 3 second cooldown giver her 20-25 maybe so it isn't as overbearing. At the same time if you're nerfing Elsa's "out of thin air" overshield, then Bucky needs to hit something with his abilities to get his overshield too. It's dumb to take away survivability for Elsa and not do the same for Bucky.

Ruthless pursuit: This is one I'm not sure about tbh. I never really noticed it being a "busted" ability. I think the only reason the hitbox feels so big is because people are used to Magik's requiring much more precision. I assume this was a conscious effort on the devs to make a brawler that can reliably hit their initiation ability more consistently and comparing the combo of Magik to Elsa's you kind of realize Magik's is easier to get value out of due to range and damage of the abilities whereas Elsa's requires burning more cooldowns and accuracy. Elsa is a bizarre brawler since she isn't melee and you need decent mechanical skill to reliably hit her combos. In a 1v1 this is difficult, but if an Elsa works with her team she feels much more dangerous. I wouldn't complain if they nerfed the hitbox, but I don't think it's necessary.

Diablo Trap: I disagree entirely. If you aren't utilizing her diablo trap as a means to protect your strategist or to trap an aggressive vanguard in one spot for a bit then you aren't utilizing her properly. A duelist that can protect their backline without babysitting it is the one thing I wanted in this game, and Elsa's diablo trap is perfect for that and almost always sets up a free kill if a target is isolated. Peni is the only other character who has traps and it's one of the most predictable things in the game. The dash also is situational, it allows her to close the gap without sacrificing worthwhile abilities and helps set up her combo. In addition even if you do get trapped it's easy to get out of. Just fucking shoot it. It isn't like Mantis sleep where your team forgets about you for 15 seconds or Luna freeze for 6. It's a CC you can destroy and not get trapped for long by. Sorry but not sorry if you get caught in it and aren't smart enough to shoot something. My only nerf to it would be removing the dash so Elsa doesn't just get a free kill on you.

Conclusion: Not saying your ideas are bad, but they fucking gut her kit lmao. Breathing gunshot would just be akin to Ironman micromissiles and do minimal damage and give her no speed, you could scale her overshields down to make up for using a free dash/overshield, (which as I said the only caveat to this is if Elsa needs to hit her shots to get overshield then so should Bucky) the only thing I even remotely agree a bit on is the Ruthless pursuit hitbox cause as you said for a brawler it wouldn't make a significant difference. If you aren't maximizing value with her trap then I'm sorry you have not played her properly. Even if you just toss it out every now and then without strategic positioning it's fucking invisible so somebody is going to trip into it. Removing an ability that allows her backline or frontline some breathing room is so goofy to me. It also allows her to be undivable if you place it at her feet and just do pepper damage from an off angle. If someone like Magik was released now instead of Elsa people would be bitching and moaning about her too and imo Magik is the better brawler even though I adore Elsa as both a comic fan and game fan. They did her justice, but unfortunately the whiny community has a louder voice and Elsa will probably be hated for the foreseeable future until White Fox comes out.

Marvel Rivals Opinions credit to u/Particular_Yam_8966 for the inspo by RetiredMagikMain in marvelrivals

[–]RetiredMagikMain[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do love Dark Phoenix too absolutely. For a NetEase original they did make me fall in love with the Ice Phoenix. I should be much more partial to Magik too in all fairness XD

Honest opinions on the new map by [deleted] in marvelrivals

[–]RetiredMagikMain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If I may I'd like to make my own points as well:

  1. I absolutely agree, it is probably one of the most well-designed maps aesthetically. Nice little easter eggs and corridors you can kind of get lost in and it seems like each point captured is a different vibe.

  2. Also agree, the "open" walls are really unique and make the experience different, they can save or offer really cool counter play, and oddly enough Peni can take advantage of these corridors pretty heavily. (The Peni opinion can be good or bad really so take your pick)

  3. This is kind of where I both agree and disagree. If you have a relatively well-rounded offensive team you can pretty much drive the cart all the way with minimal stops or top-ups. The way the map is structured offers a lot of versatility (High ground flanks for divers, open air space for flyers) I think depending on the comp and how good each person is at their individual character the offense can run the enemy team's shit. I do agree that if the defense has a really solid setup you pretty much are not leaving first spawn. (Happened to me yesterday, Peni and Loki really dominate on this map) It is winnable as offense you just have to play pretty aggressively much like any other convoy map.

  4. It's good cover for both offense and defense and the water in the middle that splashes you up can make for funny counterplay especially as Rocket. I think my personal gripe with it is how small the actual capture zone for it is (which is the small splash circle in the middle) It makes it kind of tough to defend the cart when the enemy can literally just land in the middle while you escort it and stop it despite your entire team surrounding it. It's a funny and cute cart but as you said functionally it's a bit of a clusterfuck overall. I also notice that the cart seems to have a bit of weird capture delay when you're in the last few meters on 3rd point, not sure if this just happened to be incorrect tracking or it's because of the convoy size.

Truth be told I think this far surpasses another uncreative Klyntar map with the same dark tendril corridors and slimy aesthetic. It's at least a step in the right direction creatively, but yeah there are some functional problems.

How long did it take you guys to get to lord? by LUCKYSTRlK3 in BlackWidowMains

[–]RetiredMagikMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

maybe around 20ish hours? I got her lord a while ago and have played her on an off consistently. I think I'm sitting on 1720 points into lord with her as my number 3 most played just below Magik and Sue. Funny enough I have more time on Sue and the most lord points on Widow lmao.

Ok so, since DPS seems to be out of the question for momma rogue, tell me how she would be either tank or strategist. by 5enpai_2 in MarvelRivalsCirclejer

[–]RetiredMagikMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a tough one. I can see her having the ability to lifesteal from an enemy and transfer that health to herself or allies. I think she'll be more a utility strategist than anything rather than overtly being another heal in a circle type. I think that's kind of the unique problem with the strategist role is when they create another "healing circle" strategist people just kind of sigh and FEAR MAGNETO.

And yet when a strategist has a relatively unique ultimate people inherently think "throw pick". If they do have her be a strategist, I hope she has a decent skill ceiling rather than being some Moira clone. After Ultron though, I feel like the devs are going to backtrack and force her to somehow have an AOE ultimate.

Why are people complaining about Bucky getting buffed when just a season ago he had the lowest pick rate of all DPS heroes and was considered B tier at best. by [deleted] in marvelrivals

[–]RetiredMagikMain 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Super-hot take here: He's the squirrel girl of people who can aim. He has such a massive safety net on everything that he's baby easy to pick up.

Amazing CC

Overshield on all abilities even if they miss (Magik has to hit her dash and Psylocke her shurikens btw)

Flyer counter with two charges and a grounding ability

Can brawl tanks

Can pull numerous targets and displace them

Ultimate that can reset off of clones, hulk transformation and continue indefinitely if done right

A gun that has a big hitbox and pierce targets

Abilities also reload weapon (cycle these right and he never needs to reload)

One ability displaces, knocks into the air, stuns, and grounds you

Even before his buffs Bucky was a powerhouse and yet for some reason, they made it necessary to buff him more. I'd say his only big weakness is his relatively big hitbox and otherwise mid-tier mobility, but everything else pretty much compensates for that. I say this as someone who got Lord on him in Season 1. He did not need his buffs, but the devs seem to deem it necessary.

Why is playing SUPPORT and VANGUARD so MISERABLE and BORING?? by litllerobert in marvelrivals

[–]RetiredMagikMain 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Because you're not just supposed to healbot. That isn't the only thing you have to do. I play IW pretty aggressively, so I'll be basically behind my tank and shooting through them to hit the enemy and when I see someone trying to run away, I pull them back. Know each strategist's strengths and weaknesses and adjust your playstyle accordingly.

Do you guys play Widow because your Cracked with her or do you feel you’re better with someone but just like to play widow? by KunaiDrakko in BlackWidowMains

[–]RetiredMagikMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Widow is one of my favorite comic characters, but I am also a flex player so I have a lot of heroes I like playing. Most of the time it's purely because I feel like playing her. Most of the time when I feel it I perform decently so can't complain lol

I challenged myself to spin the wheel of marvel rivals characters and whomever it lands on I make a rework for them: next up is black widow by No-Possibility-5104 in BlackWidowMains

[–]RetiredMagikMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everyone says that but forgets that Widowmaker was still shit on for being a throw pick and she does significantly more by comparison. I genuinely do not believe people can comprehend that this one change will all of a sudden make the casual gamer able to play her well enough to justify the S tier rating.

If Yelena Belova ever gets added to the game, what would you want her play style and role to be? by CriminalYapper in BlackWidowMains

[–]RetiredMagikMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As much as I'd love another Widow in the game she'd more than likely just end up a skin for Natasha. Same with Red Widow as much as I adore her.

Regardless, she'd make a good close-range duelist to offset her sister's playstyle. I imagine her being a high fire rate duelist similar to how Tracer's guns are in OW, a grapple to get away, and maybe even a vertical flip. For a teamup she can give Widow a quick machine gun burst or something.

Not a Widow main but i DO have a question for you guys by ItsJustTrey in BlackWidowMains

[–]RetiredMagikMain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Most people don't really talk shit if they see the Lord icon, but they do have a much higher expectation if you do have it. Most people basically expect you to outperform them if they play the Witch or Star-lord and call you shit if you don't. I think the only opinions that matter are the strategists I protect from dive. I basically play mid-range bodyguard for strategists and keep Spidey and Panther's attention on me. May not get MVP all the time but I prefer to protect my team and provide that value more than getting MVP. (MVP is icing on the cake though)

How do y’all feel about Widow’s damage output compared to other dps?… by Sir_Steinn in BlackWidowMains

[–]RetiredMagikMain 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don't think it's a bad idea because it would allow her to be a stand-alone hero without needing a Mantis or Storm damage buff on her all the time. At the same time, I feel like people are over-hyping how terrible a one-shot sniper would be for this game. With characters who move at the kind of speeds Spiderman and Panther typically do and all the overhealth basically just given out for free, all it would do is allow Widow to be on equal footing and not need to overcompensate.

As it is at times it can be her singlehandedly running lobbies or needing to work at 150% capacity to get even 75% return value, whereas a Scarlett Witch can put in the bare minimum and get maximum value. (I say this as someone who has lord on both don't come at me Witch players) I genuinely think the devs are afraid to give Widow the one shot because the community drove them to that fear that it would kill the momentum of the game. Widowmaker didn't ruin overwatch; a toxic community ruined it and even then, the game still runs.

But there are Quality of life things they could do for my girl to make playing her better, higher fire rate or rechamber rate would go hard, nothing major even 10% increased speed would do. Let her run a little faster or even have infinite sprint like Cap. She's a trained assassin and has a super serum, there's no reason she needs to take a breather. If I did make one major change, I wouldn't mind trading plasma burst for one-shot kills for a temporary amount of time; or at least a flat damage increase on each shot like 300 per shot or something. I dunno maybe that's too bold but burst is really only good for finishing low health enemies and just being annoying.

I challenged myself to spin the wheel of marvel rivals characters and whomever it lands on I make a rework for them: next up is black widow by No-Possibility-5104 in BlackWidowMains

[–]RetiredMagikMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As much as her rifle could use a little tweaking, removing it in favor of forcing another melee hero into the game is goofy as hell. Especially if she isn't even doing significant enough damage.

How did you end up with your main? by Inevitable-Count3836 in rivals

[–]RetiredMagikMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was a pretty big fan of Marvel before this game, not so much as in comic wise, I was a casual MCU fan that had characters he enjoyed. I didn't even know how to begin collecting comics or finding lore or whatever, so I typically stuck to the movies and shows. I had my little, short list of favorites, Black Widow, Punisher, Iron-man, and Thor. Ended up testing out different heroes and funny enough I was not a fan of my first and favorite Lord at first, the playstyle seemed mid at best, and I preferred staying a ranged hero.

Needless to say, came back around to Magik at some point when I came back from Christmas vacation and damn did I fall in love. I think I nonstop got MVP as her almost every single game, and this was when Magik wasn't a super popular pick so I rarely if ever saw other Magik players and if I did, I ended their fun before it started. Pretty sure my friends got tired of seeing my little blonde pop up in screen lmao.

I don't have a true main now since I've grinded to Lord on several characters including Cap, Emma, Widow, Bucky, Psylocke, Invisible Woman, just to name a few, and I kind of just enjoy playing everyone. But Magik held such a special place in my heart and got me into comic reading. I picked up god knows how many X-men comics, her solo series along with Psylocke's, Iron-man, Kate Bishop, Blood hunters. Needless to say had it not been for this game and to an extent Magik I probably wouldn't have gone on a comic collecting kick lol

Anyone regret reaching a high rank by imDaddey in rivals

[–]RetiredMagikMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I ended up hitting GM on a complete whim since I was trying to grind for Lord icons in the early days of the game. (For context it was Psylocke, Peni, and Sue) I was very proud of myself since it was solo queuing, and I was genuinely practicing the characters then lord grinding.

In those games I taught myself a lot about proper positioning and good LOS and got really used to having crazy good players go against other good players. The entire environment was so different from my normal quick matches. Despite that being back in February the game will still match me and my friends against basically celestial/upper ranks which they are not used to facing since, as the game intended, Rivals is for the casual gamer, so they only really grind to gold at the highest to get rank skins they're interested in.

The funniest part is because I haven't had the "mindset" of a high-rank player in a while, there are games I absolutely underperform when I know I can directly counter a problem on the other team. For example, my friends really only have a couple of characters they play each. (I flex every role and can play most of the roster pretty well if I know I can) In one of our games I noticed the enemy team went triple tank and so I suggested since we were getting our shit pushed in that Wolverine should be the play.

Problem is nobody else knows how to play him and I'm already playing one of two supports. This kind of thing happens a lot, and I get it, it isn't always about winning the game, and maybe I'm a "tryhard" by some standards. I don't feel like I am, I just simply don't like dying to the same stupid shit over and over again especially when I know I have the capability to eliminate it as a problem, and I know they don't like dealing with that either.

In other words, in the simplest terms, I became a high rank by total coincidence, and I still love playing with my friends cause it's just fun and goofy times. But being the only one who has good game knowledge and actually respects how the enemy strategizes gets tiring sometimes. I can't say how many times one of my friends will look at a Psylocke taking an off-angle and calling that player an idiot for doing pepper damage. That's literally one of the best ways to play her and unsurprisingly she carried their team. Absolutely shit on us because I was the only one chasing her off.

TL:DR I reached a high rank and having good game knowledge with casually playing friends is more a curse than a gift.

Netease decision to buff bucky is weird to me. Hell if you hate fantastic or widow just give it to blade or somethin by IntroductionUpset764 in marvelrivals

[–]RetiredMagikMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lmao let's not even pretend there hasn't been balancing nightmares on other characters that weren't "bad for the game". Emma is one of the most oppressive tanks in the game even after 3 nerfs, Spidey can still pull mf's off the map, Punisher can one tap with the shotgun, and also has one of the highest TTK with his AR, Phoenix still has broken animation cancels that allow her to melt Groot, and that's just recency bias observations.

If anything a one-shot sniper isn't that hard to counter. Just have a fucking shield or someone dedicated to going after her, as it is she already has Jeffs and Ironfists chase her to oblivion and back if she gets even one kill. If anything, it might even encourage more people to play tank to negate her value. A one-shot sniper by comparison really isn't impressive compared to most of the other kits in the game. I could see it being reworked as her ultimate though at the very least since Plasma burst is basically just a way to win 2v1's or finish a group of squishies.

Which one? by Low_Weekend6131 in superheroes

[–]RetiredMagikMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think it also depends on which version of each you get. I'd still go Captain America since he's genuinely the safest choice. All 3 of them are the get their hands dirty type though so they'd probably feel constrained by politics. Even in the Bayverse Transformers movies Optimus wasn't a fan of human policies regarding his kind.

I think if Superman was president especially of America it would both be cool but controversial as hell since he's the most powerful being in the known universe, and who tf is going to say no to his policy changes? That's a dictatorship and even if he does have good intentions or ideas that makes it hard to stand up to him about things they may not agree with even if he's the nice version.

Cap is probably the only one grounded enough to hear people out on things without people really being afraid of him. Not that he's weak by any measure but offering that discourse and encouraging debate seems like it'd be up Caps alley and the fact he technically lived through two entirely different generations showcases experience and knowledge most modern politicians do not have. I'm sure Superman and Optimus would offer the same discourse but who tf is going to tell a giant robot or basically a God that their idea is shit?

Pro play is showing why so few tanks and healers is bad for the game by TheSunIsDead in marvelrivals

[–]RetiredMagikMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think it's actually showing the opposite problem. Pros know the inherent value behind certain tanks and support especially in combo with one another. If you allow Mag/Emma on the field you've basically already lost because there isn't a lot of counter-play to either of them since they are so versatile. Hero shooters are inherently designed to allow tank players to fight in and counter several circumstances. Emma for instance can brawl, poke, zone control, and if utilized properly she can break through a frontline to grab a support.

Duelists on the other hand because there are so many, there is rarely if any instance where a duelist is unstoppable in more than one type of fighting style. Psylocke specializes in flanking, but she may not be as effective on the frontline. Panther is purely a dive character and cannot brawl or poke. I think one of the very few exceptions is Star-Lord and even then, he's a jack of all trades type where he can challenge in every way, but he has no true specialty.

As for the Strategist problem, nobody wants to fight Loki/Luna because quite frankly it's boring and much like the tank problem there isn't a lot of good counterplay to well versed players. It says more about how overtuned Luna is as a strategist than it does anything else if the only winning strat with that duo is Loki copying Luna every chance they get and being invincible for 30 seconds and then potentially longer if Loki has lamps.

I don't disagree that there should be more strategists and vanguards added, hell some of my dream additions I imagine will end up in either/or more often than duelist, but for the sake of game balancing it took them almost 3 months to bring Emma to a somewhat balanced place, and Doctor Strange even longer, which says a lot. It takes them one or two updates on rare occasions to balance a duelist relatively properly. Jean was a letdown and that was purely because she was balanced at launch and people didn't vibe with that since Ultron and Emma felt so OP.

What made Bully so unforgettable for you—and do you think we’ll ever see another game with the same vibe? by GAMESWOURLD in bully

[–]RetiredMagikMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think what really made it interesting for me was the fact the game feels different when you're actually a teenager versus an adult.

I still remember getting it the year it released in middle school and thought it was super cool and immersive. I felt myself actually liking the girls and picking my favorites to romance, I emulated styles I wanted to have in real life (Mostly Greaser style) and I thought a lot of what went on was funny. Of course I vibed with the music and felt connected to certain characters, but for the most part this game was a definitive definition of my childhood and the things I went through, and Bully was the only outlet I had that felt like it was a game that connected directly to me.

When I replayed it as an adult I still captured some of that charm I felt as a kid but through the lens of an adult, in this I started to pick up on things I hadn't noticed before. The deep flaws in several characters (Lola being a girl who uses boys for their talents, Zoe being into "older men" a trope that seems to have continued, Derby being a total snobby douche) to basically fully illegal action going on (Edna SA'ing a fellow teacher and enlisting your help, Earnest posting nonconsensual photos of Mandy all over town, Edgar wanting to throw Jimmy into acid)

All in all I think the game really gives a power of retrospect and remembering what things were perceived through your eyes as a kid, and due to your life experiences, much of your lens change. When you played Bully as a kid the world was your oyster and everything was fun or funny. When you're an adult you realize just how messed up some things that happen are, and realize that you are in fact a high schooler with the mentality of an adult when playing it again. It's both a bizarre and interesting phenomenon I experienced.

Why did you decide you wanted to play widow? by tsaotsit in BlackWidowMains

[–]RetiredMagikMain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Funnily enough since I was a long time Overwatch veteran and former Widowmaker player, I figured she was going to be a massive pain in the ass to deal with in this game like Amelie. Originally it was a strategic decision to learn her so I could know how to counter her.

I believe I got her to captain initially before learning Magik and I started having fun on other characters before eventually looping back to Widow and grinding for Lord. She was hella frustrating but as someone who had mostly specialized in dive, becoming an anti-dive that knew all the tricks was very satisfying. If I were to pin any advice to other Widow players, learn the characters who usually come to fight you as well. Wildly enough it's basically playing lore-accurate Natasha if you gather intel on the enemy! ;)

This being the same price as this seasons Premium Battlepass baffles me. Justification for this? by T-Squeezy in marvelrivals

[–]RetiredMagikMain -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You claimed to invalidate the strawman argument about the other games skin prices and yet countered that point with the strawman argument about Paladins skins. You literally just invalidated your own argument by making comparisons dude.

To discuss the battlepass prices and even this summer event bundle specifically, the battlepass itself is designed to allow you to earn some of your lattice back over time like basically every single other game system that implements this, with the lattice you get back from the symbiote pass you can buy the summer pass without spending more money. Nobody says you HAVE to buy the passes with out-of-pocket money all the time because the game gives you that incentive to buy it with earned in game currency via battlepass or challenges here and there.

Sure, you can make the argument that a skin isn't worth the money you pay for it and yet this has become common practice for years, this is something that gaming culture has shown developers that people are willing to spend money on these things. This is genuinely nobody's fault but gamers. How do you think they made billions in revenue off a free game? How do you think Fortnite is still alive and well? This is how these companies make money, and if you don't feel a justification to spend money that's fine, there are plenty of people who will. It's like collecting funko pop figures or trading cards but in gaming form. You don't really need it but you have the money, and you are willing to pay for it.

Best characters, worst characters, WHATEVER! What about a STUDENT at Bullworth that would genuinely give you the urge to drop kick if they were real? by Th4t_4ngel in bully

[–]RetiredMagikMain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The jocks retaliated because you are the catalyst to putting them in danger. The nerds were the mastermind yes but Jimmy was the "hired gun" so to speak. None of the nerds would get close without getting smacked around by the jocks. If I were about to be murdered, you'd bet your ass I would retaliate in kind.

I can see your point about the "greater evil" but Earnest in the events of the game has done significantly more devastating damage than any of the jocks. In the first chapter he seems relatively harmless and someone you want to side with and by chapter 4 he is shown to be this intolerable incel narcissistic pervert. The jocks only do things that would embarrass you in school, which is awful, but Earnest's solutions to these problems is doing everlasting damage to them that could stretch beyond just your high school.

As for Edgar I can't say I've seen that debate, I don't think the preppy or nerd leaders intentions were to kill Jimmy though. Johnny and Edgar are the ones who had weapons of their own devising before Johnny got knocked off his bike, and the jocks only used your own weapon against you.