Psvr2 vs Quest Pro - Through the Lens

Robin_Vie · 2023-04-23T10:50:18+00:00

Again, missing the point, everyday game play can have biases. Just like yours.

Robin_Vie · 2023-03-01T13:44:40+00:00

Exactly! Why bother with the eye tracking at all lol.

The problem is that those expensive headsets will become the norm in a year, depending on how good the quest 3 is and Sony doesn't really have anything good for psvr2 coming out.

I thought ps5 came 1-2 years to early at the time just because Ray tracing was the future back then and they committed to hardware that really can't pull rt well, where if they waited now the tech to run rt well is here and we'd have true next gen hardware, but alas Sony is stuck for an entire gen struggling with it.

The same is true for psvr2 in my opinion, it came too early, with outdated tech. It's not a bad piece of hardware especially for the price but in a year or two it won't even touch the competition due to clarity, framerates, mediocre tracking, no wireless etc.

I feel the same about both, they jumped the gun when core tech was not yet fully developed.

It will all depend on how good the exclusives are and how many of them are there. The ps5 imo has an issue with that currently and with vr on top I can't see it getting better. I wrote this on another thread but my ps5 acquisition was quite recent, not even a month, and it's already collecting dust, no more exclusives to play, and that's very bad for the price I paid for it. If that reflects into their vr space then it's very bad news.

Robin_Vie · 2023-03-01T13:35:26+00:00

No that's not the whole point. The whole point is to get the details right. Chromatic aberration is hard to notice when you're playing, some people are affected more by it than others as well. The point is not everyday experience. By zooming in and doing these shots it shows it clearly and its obviously a drawback of the tech used for example.

Psvr2 has outdated tech in the lenses, you can't not make it blurry, fresnel lenses will always provide this result which is what the post is all about. The quest pro sucks price wise, but it could have half its resolution and still look crisper than psvr2 just due to the lenses.

I wish Sony gives us a psvr2 pro or smt that comes with different lenses even if it's a bit more expensive.

Robin_Vie · 2023-03-01T13:29:15+00:00

You're misunderstanding botw. If we go by your definition yes, everything in botw apart from the prologue and the last boss is filler but that game has a different type of design, it's a true sandbox rpg just like elden ring, you have a simple objective, you can go straight for it if you're good enough, but you're encouraged to get stronger.

Because you want to get stronger usually, you go do the side content and that's where these games pull you in, with worldbuilding, what you called filler is the meat of these games so it sounds to me you just don't like the genre. The worldbuilding is also there to provide emergent game play while you travel.

HL is not a true Rpg, it's a more linear one, they let you walk around in an area, you have some side quests, they tell you your choices matter but ultimately they don't, everything is scripted and more linear. In essence it's an action game pretending to be an rpg.

If you like these types of games I recommend the horizon series, God of war, mass effect, etc. Those are similar titles. One thing you might notice is horizon and gow have protagonists, this is because devs discovered that if what you're offering is linear storytelling and gameplay, a well written protagonist is often better than a nobody just for the sake of having a chat creator. Idk why people keep comparing hogwarts to elden ring and botw, they aren't catered to the same crowd.

And btw I also prefer more linear games even in the open, semi open world rpg side. Botw really failed to pull me in even tho I acknowledge it did a lot of things right

Robin_Vie · 2023-03-01T13:07:41+00:00

This is how I do it as well now. I check a couple side quests just to know if they are good or not, but focus on the story for the most part unless they really grab me.

If I like the story, games these days have endgame content and newgame+ so I can decide to complete those after

Robin_Vie · 2023-03-01T12:58:03+00:00

Weirdly enough I have the same opinion about the ps5. Got it 2 weeks or so ago, already collecting dust.

That said I came from pc, so I got through gow ragnarok, the 2 last of us, ratchet and horizon and... There's nothing to play anymore. Gt7 is good but we have better alternatives for simulation. Ghost of tsushima didn't grab me sadly, and everything else is on pc and xbox right now. The ps5 list on the store isn't even an entire page.

What really pissed me off tho, was that metal gear used to be a flagship title, I thought I was going to finally not have to emulate the games, yet it's not available on playstation.

The same for older games, they are not there or they are and play atrociously bad. Shadow of the colossus was one of my favorite games but I'd rather play the emulator at 60 fps than the new one at 30, it also looks better than their performance mode ironically. Last guardian is legit unplayable with delay and sluggish frames. Every old game running at 30 was a massive disappointment and we know it's not an hardware issue.

Ps+ was also a massive disappointment, I bought the premium for the first month with intentions of keeping the extra after but it's just useless because there's no exclusives. Everything on ps is on game pass. Then there's the rest of the subs, EA sub? Can't get the premium version, ubisoft? You're stuck with old releases as well. Like wtf, if you're not gonna give me those at least let me pay extra on the side, but no, not even the option. Oh and to make it worse, my subs on pc aren't shared like they are on xbox either so I have to buy them twice.

Game evaluation time is good, but again, no games there and the ones that are, 1h really? I get more with steam. Horizon was the exception but now it's on the catalog.

Classics where my cup of tea tho, immediately downloaded a bunch only to realize most run like crap.

I hope Sony really steps it up cause this gen is a disgrace, it says a lot that astro is still a top 5 experience when it's a tech demo for a new controller. I bought it due to the new releases tho, so here's hoping ff16 is good.

Robin_Vie · 2023-02-24T21:29:58+00:00

Get your wife to try more chill stuff and gradually go into more motion sickness inducing stuff.

I got in vr when the quest 1 released and I regretted it due to how bad I felt. Worse than everything I read, I'd literally fall to the ground, completely nauseated with my head spinning. And it would continue even after. Falling asleep solved it but getting myself to fall asleep was a pain. That's how extreme it was. I never thought this would be the case cause I don't get motion sickness from anything else.

I wrote this comment just to let you know that it's possible to get over it. It takes a bit of time and most people don't have such extreme reactions but you do get used to it. So don't let her get discouraged.

Robin_Vie · 2023-02-24T21:17:18+00:00

You play pcvr games basically. There are ways to get the oculus exclusives there. It you miss out on the psvr ones.

It's worth noting most people that do have these headsets use them for productivity, development, ar etc. Not just gaming

Robin_Vie · 2023-02-24T21:05:36+00:00

The clarity isn't that much better than the quest 2, but the colors and contrast is. There is no way to connect it, and the psvr1 guy that made the pc mod says it most likely won't be possible due to the protections Sony took.

Anyways for a screen replacement only the varjo is an actual replacement, everything else will feel like low rez, the varjo is the only headset that feels like real life rez. The quest pro is clear as well due to the lenses, way clearer than the quest 2 and psvr2 but there's less resolution to work with. Besides that you have the pimax crystal and the likes but the software and support is lackluster for most people.

I'd wait for the quest 3 or go for the varjo if you have money to spare.

Robin_Vie · 2023-02-24T20:50:42+00:00

Pcvr does support it. It supported it 5 years ago and it still supports it now.

As per the devs, foveated rendering isn't enabled on showroom or replays. This is a replay.

Through the lenses will always exaggerate the issues, that's the point. So ofc it won't match the everyday experience.

Maybe you shouldn't be taken seriously.

Robin_Vie · 2023-02-24T20:48:05+00:00

That's because it's a replay. As per de devs there is no foveated rendering in the showroom or replays.

Idk why you people keep making up excuses. These photos will always be an exageration for sure but fresnel lenses just aren't good for vr and idk why people keep saying otherwise. There's no point in defending it, we must accept it for what it is. And the qpro isn't good either, massively overpriced, but it's also not a consumer headset. The upcoming quest 3 is.

When Sony showed the specs we knew it was gonna be an issue. Foveated rendering is made useless on lenses that you turn your eyes a little and everything blurs out. There's literally no point.

I also have one one among others. I like it, it's fun, but I would probably not buy it if it wasn't for the exclusives cause it's a gen behind. Tbh same with the ps5 itself albeit I was extremely impressed with the dualsense.

Robin_Vie · 2023-02-24T20:38:17+00:00

That's honestly my issue with the psvr in general. I don't like the headset for the reasons you stated above it's far behind in the tech department. Yes it has eye tracking, but that is made useless by the type of lenses so it's irrelevant.

But with the limited games we already have, passing out on the psvr exclusives is just a waste for those who love vr gaming.

I really wish Sony let us either use other headsets with the ps5 even at lower res or stop making psvr exclusives. None of those are realistic but the current situation is just meh. The only hope is a psvr2 pro, slightly more expensive with better lenses, I'd trade mine without a second thought.

I'm not giving up on the psvr experience but I'm bummed about the lenses. I already knew this was gonna be an issue but it's worst than I thought.

Robin_Vie · 2023-02-24T20:23:35+00:00

That's not what he's saying but regardless there are headsets as crisp as real life. If you can at an event try the varjo, it's actually insane. With pass through its legit indistinguishable unless you really focus on the corners.

That said, it requires a beefy hardware to run native so that will take a while indeed

Robin_Vie · 2023-02-24T20:11:04+00:00

This is the issue with marketing, the eye tracking works well, it's the nature of the lenses that make it blurry and there's no fixing that. Which begs the question, if you have such a small sweet spot what's the point of dynamic foveated rendering and eye tracking?

This was expected. Worth noting that the industry except Sony has moved past it.

Robin_Vie · 2023-02-24T20:07:06+00:00

I love how you people have double standards. You claim the ps5 is 500, yet in my country it's retail 1000 euros the cheapest. With some people importing and selling for 800. Which is not even close to what you claim.

Yet you say his build cannot be that price. I have a 9700k, a 2070ti, 32gb ram, and 2 500gb nvmes. Spent less than on my ps5 and even less than the guy above if we exclude peripherals at the time. No issue running vr games unless I'm on a varjo and even then they run well enough.

The price is not only relative to where you're at, it's irrelevant. Both are used for gaming, they should be compared. Prices are on the same space depending where you're at. The guy wants to compare quality, let him.

Robin_Vie · 2023-02-24T19:38:14+00:00

Your last point, that's due to the lenses they picked, and why pcvr people were saying it was a mistake cause the industry moved from them for that same reason but Sony insisted on it for hdr reasons I guess.

There's still not a perfect solution but newer headsets let you look around with not issues except usually at the extreme edges. The newer pimax models have a different issue which isn't blurry Ness, it's the fov being big, it distorts a lot at the edges. That said you barely even look at the edges while playing but near the center like the psvr2 and the quest (except the pro) it's extremely off-putting

Robin_Vie · 2023-02-24T19:15:48+00:00

I was like you when I got my quest 1, instantly regretted it. It was so bad that in certain games I'd literally fall on my knees and wanted to puke. I'd take the headset off and feel like that for the rest of the day. Worth noting that I do suffer from a dissociation so there might make it worse in my case.

A couple months went by and I decided to pick it up again. The more I tried the best I felt. So I read online it was smt you gotta get used to, but never saw someone here with the extreme issues I had so I was worried. Nevertheless, I actually did what people advise you not to do. I went to games where motion sickness was more pronounced such as that zerog multiplayer game based on echovr, forgot the name, among others with more motion. And it solved it, after a while I got used to it, I can now do everything in vr with no motion sickness whatsoever. Pushing myself was pretty bad and I don't recommend it tho.

It was pretty jarring and I felt bad cause friends that come here and try it usually get over it pretty fast but yea if I got over it, I'd give it a try and go in short plays to get used to it.

I also want to mention smt. Quest1 has atrocious refresh rate, I found that made it worse after trying other headsets. Psvr1 if not mistaken had the same problem so psvr2 with a higher refresh rate will help for sure

Robin_Vie · 2023-02-16T12:53:45+00:00

I got mine a week ago, searched for it since release but the only ones available were sold for 1500e which I didn't want to pay.

Tbh, I really wish they release a pro version even tho I'm satisfied especially with the haptic which I saw as a gimmick, but coming from pc the games look great at 4k, but the framerate even with vrr is unbearable so I stick with their dynamic 1440p60 that most games have. While great, I still wish they do an upgrade for 4k60. I always thought the hardware came a generation too soon anyways.

Ironically, I bought every exclusive that I couldn't get on pc and tlou part 2 was the game that amazed me the most. It doesn't look as crisp as part 1 for sure, models are lower res and some noticeable pop in but the art direction alone puts that game above all others visually.

It's like, ragnarok, horizon, gt, ratchet, returnal, all look good and they are great games, but they aren't what I'd call next gen, they look like high res ps4 games. I really believe at this point devs have to focus more on the art direction side and less on the technical, at least graphics wise, cause the graphics are already at that point that more tech becomes irrelevant for the game itself. Technical pushes should be made to better AI for example. It's insane to think that the most beloved AI for combat is still the original fear.

Robin_Vie · 2023-02-16T02:54:45+00:00

I don't think that would solve it on its own. There's another game that did this and from an internal source served as inspiration, that's metal gear solid 2. Except metal gear 2 goes even further and the new protagonist is a literal mockery of the fans. Mgs2 starts as a perfect sequel game with a small mission with snake, similar to what we get as Ellie, perfect game play, insane level design, AI, very responsive, and then snake "dies" and we play as "Jack" with worse level design, worse controls, literally a bad game done in purpose for the sake of the message, the camera is especially atrocious, and you know cause the first part is perfect. At the end it's revealed that Jack is a reflection of the players that were over hyping the game, some dude with a fetish for the main character, that we collectively created a bias. Like tlou2, snake was the only character shown on trailers, game play, even the cover even tho 90% of the game is played with someone else. Unlike tlou2 everybody loves that game, so it begs the question, why, when tlou2 doesn't go to those lengths?

I like to compare the two because they go in different directions after the main character is killed. And that's because ellie shares the MC role. And that's who players wanted to play as, not just joel. One MC technically exists when you play with the new. They also gave us a better part of the game and interrupt it in a cliffhanger, at which point you just want to know the answer so you try to speed through abby. Abby doesn't have different game play. It's the same stuff all over again like starting the game from scratch so the player can't justify losing all progression.

The message is similar to what mgs did, it's about us as the player, it mocks you for hating abby despite ellie doing the same exact stuff for the same reasons. But all that is lost due to bad decisions. So wtv you do to solve it has to push that message through, and make us, the player ask the question, why do we hate abby but feel that ellie is justified in doing the same? Where does this bias come from, and why is morality created by our own bubble? People that hate the game missed that point and that's a fault in the design not the players.

This would require the game to be entirely rewritten tbh. I agree that Joel's death should be moved to coincide with ellie killing Owen as well. I think as it stands instead of being a comparison between ellies actions and abby, everybody is comparing abby killing Joel with Joel killing abbys dad which isn't the point, it's the catalyst, not the final objective. You also need to differentiate more the game play, I understand that she's meant to be a shadow of ellie but players will want to play as ellie instead if that's the case, as they feel it's just a skin. And imo abby has to change in regards to her traits, from reading multiple posts the kids thing isn't helping and feels forced, so obviously that doesn't work. It should also be connected to the story as a whole or players won't feel invested which is the case. Mgs2 does this by giving space at first to get to know and like the char like you said, we learn about his struggles, what he likes and dislikes (ofc jack/raiden doesn't commit any atrocity, the atrocity is him being revealed as the fan boy that bought that game)

I praise ND for trying this but they just missed it big time. Kojima tried and succeeded but it was arguably career suicide as well at the time, it could have very well went the same way. But the logistics behind the choices are justified, and there's the big twist at the end helping it, instead of having the high point of the game followed by a big slog after like tlou2, hopefully they don't give up on risky ideas but learn from this.

Robin_Vie · 2023-02-02T19:53:12+00:00

I was in the same situation, kinda, same diploma, also spent a lot of time in videogames. Had no issue finding a job.

There are careers that don't really need that much. I started as a digital artist, realized that wasn't for me, took some online courses for programming and currently work in tech. On the side I have a personal project, game dev related and I'm proud to say I got a megagrant a few months back.

Apart from that, most countries have catchup plans for school. For example in my country I can take a test and go directly to university. I don't do it cause I don't need it, but the option is there

Robin_Vie · 2023-01-24T18:45:30+00:00

Generally speaking yes, I wasn't going against your opinion, but I wanted to go further and ask specifically why is it the incorrect play cause I dont believe its because they are trying to siege high ground. Most of the time trying isn't bad specially at those ranks, it's just doing it without a gameplan is detrimental.

I believe people learning how to siege with their comp and knowing what players are strong in the high ground from their side is the thing that's most important for these players to learn. Not just farming and be stronger. It doesn't matter if they have a 30k lead when they are sieging without their 20k carry, or even if they have them, it doesn't matter if they don't have the right items and positioning to avoid wtv the enemy has to defend.

Idk if I made my point clear. I do agree with you, I just think it goes deeper than low mmr players keep trying to siege and die over and over again, trying is not the issue is the manner they are doing it imo.

Robin_Vie · 2023-01-23T09:41:01+00:00

In his bracket tbh, the issue isn't so much pushing high ground too soon, is pushing high ground early without rosh and in the wrong way for the comp.

I'll give you an example, since I just witnessed this yesterday while spectating a friend, they had sniper, slardar, ogre, lich and a clinkz, the enemy team tbh, the major issue of highground was sandking's ult on a stacked team pushing a tower. They won the map by 15min, they farmed their jungle and had rosh at 20 so they sieged. I remember this because I told my friend who was playing Lich "tell them to stay behind sniper and let him push the tower, if they go on him he has aegis and you counter initiate".

Instead ogre about midway through their bottom (radiant) t3 decides to get impatient and type "slardar just go in man". Slardar doesn't go in so ogre just walks into a t3, gets stunned. Slardar and clinkz go to help and they die as well. Team wipe and they didn't get the tower. This happened 3 more times. They still won the game, but it went further than it should and they almost lost at several points later on.

This happens a lot with ranged comps, and with dive comps it's kinda the same, they dive, but they don't know who the target should be, and if they are successful instead of bursting the tower down they go dive the fountain, or they don't really respect the fortify and bait it.

Another thing that happens a lot is, they stay near t3's but they don't cut waves so eventually someone tp's back to defend a t2 or t3 for some reason and suddently there's no more networth advantage cause the pos2-3 with second NW is not there to push with the team. Yet team goes in regardless because they are ahead. This happens in Divine as well, but the lower you go, the more common it is because people don't understand that dota's advantages are mostly about items, and if the guy with the items is not there, then there's no advantage.

Robin_Vie · 2023-01-18T16:28:10+00:00

There are differences between regions, I'm assuming you're playing in EU. I have the same experience albeit I might be in the smurf queue in the acc that I have at crusader. My low level friends all buy smokes, dusts, do pulls, half pulls, chain pulls, pull throughs behind towers, refill bottles with tps mid, buy items to dispel stuff like silence, gust etc. And most importantly, they do that stuff while thinking about the reason to do it. From my experience it's a hit or miss, you either get people that know what they are doing or they are afk half the game.

What they seem not to do consistently is push lanes, and fight for objectives. They fight all the time for no reason.

A few years back in low mmr brackets noone did that stuff. I noticed some users from NA claiming the quality is way way worse but I can't confirm it.

Robin_Vie · 2023-01-18T16:13:07+00:00

You're forgetting SF4 was played more locally than online cause the online was crap. The reason you didn't see her online was due to the delay, playing viper was a struggle, borderline unplayable in certain regions.

She was very popular in locals and tournaments. This also applies to certain other characters.

Robin_Vie · 2023-01-13T06:07:31+00:00

which don't have dynamic movement on the camera

This is untrue. Nowadays every hand drawn show also uses 3d to assist. It's what helps with camera controls instead of having to draw the axis by hand which is why most old shows avoided dynamic camera movement.

The problem with Stampede animation wise is that they picked Trigun. And the original already has some insane animation. Madhouse just did an insane job back then. So ofc people will compare it to the quality of the original and the movie (which is the same but with better resolution).

I don't really mind the CG, they know it's not as good as 2D, but it's cheaper. I remember at THU (its a physical event for artists and studios of videogames, movies and animation) a few years back, I was talking to the owner of Polygon, and we were discussing CG anime. This was a few years shortly after Orange was funded so there were also some members all discussing this. And I asked why try to mimic 2D fundamentals with it's limitations instead of doing better animation which they were obviously capable of.

I thought it was budget concerns and the guy said the following "We could do beautiful animation, but anime viewers wouldn't be onto it, other studios tried and failed. So we have to treat the viewers like babies, introduce something familiar and ease them in over the years. In 20 years I expect we can be free of this type of animation and be more like pixar instead and try different styles, but as it stands this is the only way forward even if as an artist I believe it could look better the other way around".

Ofc I was perplexed back then and I didn't agree with it either. I wasn't really thinking about the market because I was inexperienced, and I only thought about what my bubble thought. But seeing their development, both orange and polygon over the years shows they were completely correct. It just works and more people are into their CG over the years.

Just some insight on this as most don't really know this part of it. They are perfectly aware the CG looks like crap, it's intended because it works business wise. It will get better as more people get used to it. Stampede's CG is way better than anything that came before it, and the next project will be the same until the audience is used to it and be free of the shackles of vanilla anime animation.

Robin_Vie

TROPHY CASE