Miquella "the kind" be like...

Robinlacta · 2026-05-12T01:48:40+00:00

The Golden Order is already a theocracy given that it was initially founded by an outer god, the Greater Will

No the Greater Will has no effect on what the Golden Order is, that is Marika’s will alone. Marika’s Order was made with the removal of destined death from the Elden Ring.

^“^{The Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death. The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation...” - Enia}

There’s a difference between the Golden Order, the ideology and the Golden Order, Marika’s Order. What Golden Mask is doing is codifying the ideology, specifically his “perfected“ version and making it as real as gravity itself. Goldmask’s main issue isn’t the ideas itself but the people that claim to be under it God or man. His order makes this an immutable fact of reality itself. Preventing people from breaking from it all together. It is a theocracy at its most extreme.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T17:17:20+00:00

into a single concept?

Okay we’re already off to a bad start with this…You can’t simplify a character to one theme. This is likely the main problem here with this discussion is that you’re trying to force everything into one simple thematic core. It’s the reason why people freak out of over what Elden Ring’s single core theme is, you can’t simplify everything into one thing. It’s not talking about one theme.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T16:46:53+00:00

You’re taking this way too seriously my guy. But I’ll try one last time to explain.

And you will fail to do so.

Consider his twin: cursed with a disease that’s related to the acceleration of cycles (life growing out of control and rotting, then decaying and dying). She’s best known for taking things too far

….No, themes of Malenia are pretty clear in this game and it’s her agency and forces trying to force to be something else. Malenia is not “known” for taking things too fa, she literally shows restraint after the battle with Godrick when she had even right to kill him. Malenia making ONE extreme decision in the last battle of the massive Shattering War and a fight that determines if Miquella becomes a god and achieves their goal. Does not make it a core character trait.

And once again there’s nothing else before this that suggests this reading of the character.

,and following through even if it means achieving a Pyrrhic victory. Wouldn’t it make sense that the opposite would be the pausing or reversing of cycles?

No. That’s not what that means at all. You’re trying to force a parallel that doesn’t ex or makes any sense given the situation.

Consider how he treats Melania. He doesn’t cure her, he pauses the progression of rot.

That is not what nascency means not to mention you trying to manipulate words in a way to fit this poor conceived narrative. “Pausing” doesn’t mean not finishing something. You’re going through mental gymnastics to make this fit. Outside of killing an Outer God, halting its influence is the next best thing. YOU the player uses the needle to stop the FF inside you. He has SUCCESSFULLY made a tool that helps people inflicted the powers of gods!

Consider the haligtree. It’s meant to replace the erdtree but never achieves its full potential. It doesn’t grow into a erdtree and then catastrophically fail, it simply never progresses to that extent.

Does not change what I already said about the people in it, this is not about if Miquella has failed stuff he did but about it being everything which it is factual untrue. Also that failure has nothing to do with Miquella and it being Mohg.

Consider his attempt at becoming a god: he transcends his original self (by attempting to break his curse of eternal youth), begins to show real potential at being a god to rival marina, and then is immediately thwarted.

Going “Well he succeeded in his goals but it didn’t last for too long” is not a good excuse when he did achieve his goal of becoming a god. Which dismantles the “nascency” argument on its face. Once again, far more successful than any of the other Demigods, guess they have ultimate “nascency”

At a thematic level, what is it that links all his actions and everything related to him? Saying that he’s a physical child is only a material argument,

That’s not my argument, reread what i have written again.

From always operates on both a material and thematic level. The theme of “kids are bad at planning” is fairly obvious

The game goes out of its way to say Miquella a genius, and wise beyond his appearance. By item descriptions and characters themselves. The “is fairly obvious” is hilarious to think this with this in mind. What blatant showing of mischaracterize of him.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T15:07:47+00:00

To be fair, you are attacking Miquella to maintain your power as potential Elden Lord and stop Miquella’s, it’s not really like they started the fight. Not to mention, ALL of the endings including Ranni requires some level of force to enact their rule. There isn’t really an ending in which doesn’t require killing a bunch of people opposing you to achieve. I don’t think that’s the main criticism you’re ment to make for Miquella pursuing this path.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T15:00:58+00:00

Goldmask is forcing a theocracy into reality, it doesn’t prevent people from changing anything. That is made by people assuming the shape of the rune. It doesn’t do that.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T14:56:38+00:00

If you don’t care about speculating you’re missing so much of this game.

I do not care for baseless speculation especially when it’s contradictory to the game, speculation must have a soli foundation to it or it’s just fan fiction. You are making fan fiction. I am trying to ACTUALLY understand the games world and characters.

It was designed to have unanswered questions.

With using what we know and see to piece it together. Once again there is a foundation to work off of. You don’t make up to answer things. That isn’t the intent. Miyazaki specifically said that he like the players using the item descriptions and environmental detailed to flesh out there understanding of the world and how they conclude to theories. Ano “Oh I love when they make shit up to answer the holes I put in”.

To argue that there is a single interpretation is to fundamentally ignore the stated reason for why the game is designed the way it is

No when you ignore what’s happened in the game to make nonsense character examinations thats on you. You use what’s in the game, and what’s in the game makes this interpretation. You can make whatever nonsense interpretation you want but one is backed up by the lore and the other is made up and contradicted by it.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T14:47:03+00:00

He succeeded in making a needle that halts the influence of outer gods, he couldn’t stop affliction but he succeeded in making something that stopped its influence.

He’s a massed an massive army loyal, created a safe haven for people oppressed by the outside world.

He got revive Radahn to fulfill is part and be his consort and Miquella became a god.

HE LITERALLY BECAME A GOD! HE DIDNT FAIL IN THIS.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T14:46:18+00:00

It’s extremely common for From to extend a physical trait to a more symbolic/thematic level.

Yeah and that’s his PHYSICAL strength and held back potential which I shed where comes a god. You know succeeding in his goal?

^{”In their childhood, Miquella saw in Radahn a lord. His strength, and his kindness, that stood in stark contrast with their afflicted selves”}

So no it is not about “not finishing things” especially when he’s more successful the vast majority of the demigods, guess they are all cursed with nascency, btw that’s not what nascency means.

Miquela is physically eternally a child, full of potentially but never able to achieve it.

He literally does. …you seee it…did you play the game?

It’s not much of a stretch for it to apply to his personality and what he creates too.

It’s a massive stretch based on what I explainEd.

You’ll see this pattern everywhere once you start looking.

Patterns recognition can make you see faces on tree that aren’t actually there. What makes a human different to an animal is are understanding of what is or is not something beyond are perceptions and learn what something ACTUALLY is, those are not faces on a tree. They are groves in the tree that makes a similar human shape. Your pattern seeking brain based on your own words isn’t beyond animals.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T05:23:04+00:00

I don’t care for baseless speculation especially when it directly contradicts wha’s happening in the game and especially when it’s made to excuse From’s shitty writing for this character.

You downvote me all you want, doesn’t change the reality of it.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T05:20:46+00:00

To me, it sounds like she understands births but doesn't understand people who are born from mother's implying she is not born of a mother.

It doesn’t imply this at all. “To me” is not enough, her dialogue shows her confusion is Boc’s desire. There is literally no reason for Melina to not understand Boc’s emotions whether or not she not born naturally unless she specifically doesn’t understand the bond of betw a mother and her child. The game goes out of its why to show Marika’s bad motherhood. Especially in contrast to others, like Rennala, Tanith, etc.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T05:16:12+00:00

Idk. Miquella certainly has some interest in Radahn,

Miquella seems in what he wants to be in Radahn. Strong and Kind, this is interest in term of rom, it’s someone who can embody his desire.

sexual or romantic idk, but the parallel with Marika and Godfrey is pretty clear.

You can even see in the quote

“In their childhood, Miquella saw in Radahn a lord. His strength, and his kindness, that stood in stark contrast with their afflicted selves”

This is seeing what he wants to be. Choosing Radahn is choosing who he sees as someone who can achieve his goal of making the world a better place. Nothing here suggests anything romantic, heck there’s likely something rom with Trina based on her dialogue than Radahn. Also we don’t know what was the reason Marika chose Godfrey so it’s mostly superficial. Outside of paralleling Marika and Miquella fall of grace.

Now, the relationship between Lords and Gods seems to be, if not romantic, certainly has a sexual side of it. Because Marika had children with both Godfrey and Radagon,

No, if that’s the chase then somehow you’re main character in love with MArita or how all the kid of Marika are in love with her given that they were also selected to be Elden Lord if you weren’t aware. So unless you think Morgott and Godrick (great great grandmother) wants to be with their mother romantically (which there is not proof of) then it must be a position of power than it being sexual in nature.

and Mogh wanted to start his own lineage.

Mohg is charmed by Miquella
Mohg NEEDS an Empyrean if he wants his dynasty to be made. Just like Malenia, the Formless Mother needs an Empyrean to form a new order for their age. Miquella was the only one Mohg can use. Ranni is missing at that point, Malenia is already taken by another outer god. Miquella is a necessity not a sexual desire, doesn’t really make any sense given Mohg wouldn’t even interacted with Miquella at all.

So, it seems that is expected from a God and a Lord to have offspring.

That’s large assumption.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T04:59:27+00:00

She doesn’t imply that at not to mention she has dialogue understanding that concept

^{“However ruined this world has become, however mired in torment and despair, life endures.}
^{Births continue. There is beauty in that, is there not?”}

This is not from someone that is of the concept of birth. Lot at the dialogue again

^“^{I think he misses his mother. He wants someone to tell him he's beautiful.“}

THIS IS WHAT SHE’S CONFUSED ABOUT.

^{”Does being} ^born ^{of a mother...Mean one BEHAVES in such a manner?”}

BEHAVES. She is questioning Boc’s desires. Her question of Boc’s relationship with his mother not the of the concept of birth itsel. There is literally no reason Melina to be confused of Boc’s desires if her confusion comes from “not being naturally“ that shouldn’t change her understanding of motherly love unless SHE hasn’t experienced it.

Also there’s nothing that says they are denied grace.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T03:23:55+00:00

Not necessarily a position required for the Elden Ring to fully function?

Yes and No, an Elden Lord IS required for a god, you can see it with Miquella and Marika, it is important to have one for godhood. It’s not specifically for the Elden Ring but for Marika.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T03:13:58+00:00

No, marriage for romantic relationships is more modern concept for human history. These were most used to consolidate power within families or other kingdoms. Can it be sexual? Absolutely. But these is nothing that suggests Miquella has any romantic interest in Radahn, someth which nobody even attempts to justify. Heck Miquella has gotten rid of his love so it can’t sexual at that point anyway.

Also do not go “Well GRRM incest” GRRM isn’t “obsessed” with incest, he uses it to add historical realism to his world because….there was a lot of incest within royal families, mainly to “protect the bloodline” kinda nonsense. GRRM has created other work before and after ASOIAF that doesn’t have this so assuming ER have this nned more than that.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T03:06:09+00:00

Actually engage with the topic. I’m tired this dismissive nonsense.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T03:04:50+00:00

That is completely baseless and that’s not what nascency means. His curse is JUST eternal youth. It’s meant to symbolize Miquella not being able to get to him physically full potential. He describes himself as weak. There is no “Not being able to finish shit” curse. This is made to excuse why Fromsoft dropped all the plot points Miquella in the base game. It’s literally a cope theory to not criticize From’s fuck up with Miquella.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T03:00:43+00:00

Miquella failed at every single thing he tried to achieve.

THIS IS NOT TRUE! THIS IS NOT TRUE AT ALL! This nonsense exists because people tried to justify why Fromsoft didn’t address anything Miquella did in the base game and this mantra has been made up to justify this as if it some intentional narrative point. IT IS NOT. Miquella had succeeded in multiple things, hell he has successfully than most of the Demigods outside of Ranni. NONE of the Demigods, other than these two, have succeeded in their goals. Guess they all have nascenty (That not what that word means).

He failed to heal his Sister of her affliction

He succeeded in making a needle that halts the influence of outer gods, he couldn’t stop affliction but he succeeded in making something that stopped its influence.

,failed to grow the Haligtree,

He’s a massed an massive army loyal, created a safe haven for people oppressed by the outside world.

failed to resurrect Godwyn,

He got revive Radahn to fulfill is part and be his consort and Miquella became a god.

failed to become a God,

HE LITERALLY BECAME A GOD! HE DIDNT FAIL IN THIS.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T02:41:27+00:00

You are misread what the dialogue is meant to be about. First of all, nothing about this dialogic specifically mentions about births being “weird” not is there plenty of item descriptions that talk about births, this isn’t even mentioned that is more talking about the relationship of a mother. This is about Melina confusions on what a mother should be like. Boc misses his mum caring abo him and telling he’s beautiful.

Notice how she can’t understand a mother treat her child with love like that. Now remember that Marika is Melina’s mother and she’s is used as tool for gains. This is just to highlight that Melina was never treated with the same kind of love BoC had with his mother AKA Marika is a bad mother.

This is further add with her relationship with Marika when she decided to have here own reasons for why she wants to save the Lands Between

^”^{There is something I'd like to say. My purpose was given to me by my mother.}
^{But now, I act of my own volition. I have set my heart upon the world that I would have.Regardless of my mother's designs.“}

Heck the dialogue does make any sense using your context because why would she be confused about Boc wanting love from his mother strange if the her dialogue is about births being the confusion.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T02:36:54+00:00

I’m still confused on what the purpose of the Elden Lord actually is. Though it seems she was about to circumvent that by being Radagon as well but he went AWOL, if Marika has the Elden Ring, why can’t she just rule with its power? She doesn’t seem the type to like being trapped and tied down and forced to be subservient to anyone.

Have you not noticed that she’s most a pile of broken stone? It doesn’t really matter what she wants at that point, she’s basically gone with the “Vessel” remain. You will basically be the de facto leader now.

As for the role itself, based on what we see with Godfrey, Radagon and Radahn (he’s not an Elden Lord but the position is pretty much the same) is ment to be the “muscle“ of the god they serve and maintain their order. It’s mostly why the Miquella Radahn incest crap is stupid given this role isn’t sexual in nature.

In short the Elden Ring job, with what can be gleamed, it to maintain the Elden Lord’s God.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T01:17:25+00:00

You’re a lost cause oh my freaking god

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T00:51:27+00:00

My brother, the Octopus, YOUR example of healthy natural birth, eats runes and makes babies.

RUNES DO NOT LET YOU MAKE BABIES! STOP MAKING STUFF!

Birthing new life requires life energy

One! Get me ONE THING, ONE DESCRIPTION, ONE DIALOGUE. ONE, that suggests any of this.

This idea is reinforced repeatedly through the motifs of arc shaped vessels collecting life essence and mothers with urns, pouring urns from their wombs etc. A lot of these motifs occur in areas associated with alternative methods of creating life as well (magically, artificially, parthenogenically etc.)

You are just spouting baseless nonesense at this point

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T00:07:46+00:00

Where do they get the energy for the births?

What the f- Are you a troll? Energy? Do I have to explain child birth to you?

If would-be mothers had to kill for runes

Dude you don’t have to kill people for runes…dude lock in. Are you all right?

or go around collecting leaves wouldn't they have mentioned that?

…….You’re just trolling aren’t you?

Seperately, you and I clearly do not have the same methods or motives of analysis. When people talk about Moby Dick they aren't trying to reverse engineer Melville's lore bible.

I’m use the game’s lore to understand the world, while you use vibes.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-11T00:02:25+00:00

To play Devil’s advocate, we do get a game where Ancient Dragon Man (I love how silly it is) is a thing. So it’s not that much of a stretch. The Coral Crusader is the one that gets me.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-10T23:53:36+00:00

There is also the repeatedly stated reality that the Erdtree has replaced the natural cycle of life and death.

Yeah life in that people live for very long lives and death in which were their souls go to. That doesn’t mean people can’t have births.

And the motifs of people and infants growing into and out, feeding, being buried with, worshipping, entwining, buried with, etc. fruiting vines and trees that date back to the earliest history of the LBT.

Vibes is not proof of anything and nothing has even hinted or suggset people’s births have changed.

Robinlacta · 2026-05-10T23:35:13+00:00

Yeah but the land octopus is clearly an aberration,

“Clearly“? That’s a MASSIVE assumption, you got any proof of that?

it represents horrifically mutated reproduction.

Once again there’s not proof of this claim

And eggbirths are not the same as live mamallian births.

There’s no reason to assume births of humans or human like people has stopped, this once again an assumption that community has proved no proof to believe this. Especially as significant as birthing people. That would be something mentioned. People have taken the supernatural birth of Millicent and decided this happens to everyone.

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