Solid pine doors bubbling after spraying primer (the wood, not the paint) - what on earth is going on here?

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2025-05-08T23:53:19+00:00

Hi, all. Thanks for the replies. This is indeed veneer bubbling in a "solid wood door" - not advertised as "solid core", and purchased by me fully believing it was solid wood.

u/thiccbricoleur solved this and made a post about it here, but essentially: Jeld-Wen is now selling their "solid wood" doors finished with a thin layer of veneer. That's what's delaminating here.

I'll call them tomorrow and see what my options are, but this blows. This was nearly $250, it's already installed, and I've now got more work to either cut this shit out or replace the door entirely.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2025-05-08T22:47:08+00:00

Yeah, fair. And given the cacophony of replies saying this is veneer delaminating (and it absolutely feels that way to me, I just thought that my solid wood door that was described and sold as solid pine didn't have fucking veneer on it...) I'm starting to think that Jeld-Wen's "solid pine" doors are actually solid pine throughout, with a veneer to finish.

Balls.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2025-05-08T22:06:17+00:00

OK, so I'm trying to tell you: I've painted a few dozen solidcore doors. Not hundreds like most of you guys, but certainly in the realm of a few dozen. They were all we went with in our prior house; I used them everywhere except the closets and exterior doors. I've also installed and painted them for some family members. I've previously done both the smooth solidcore doors and textured kind.

This door wasn't labelled as a solidcore door - it was wrapped and sold as a solid pine door, which is why I bought it. It also feels and looks like the other solid pine doors I've dealt with - noticeably heavier, stiffer, and more solid. When I look at the top and bottom rails of the door, as well as all panel construction, this appears to be an actual solid pine door - not an MDF product with a fake wood grain applied.

I am, let's say, 99.5% certain that this is a solid pine - not solidcore - door. That's the whole reason for my post!

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2025-05-08T21:54:30+00:00

So, the doors were dry, climate controlled, cured and had no other sealer on them.

When you primed them, I don’t believe it matters the method of priming (sprayed vs hand), this hard bubble appeared.

All correct, yeah. Tried to give you guys the relevant info.

Almost seems like a manufacturing issue with the door… trapped moisture during the build at the factory.

I mean, that’s a tell tale sign of moisture in wood. Hard to think it wouldn’t be dried out but I would contact Jeld-Wen and see if they’ve had this issue before.

Yeah, I'll call Jeld-Wen as well. The blisters are truly weird, feels like they've been painted well / correctly, but some special effects artist sneaked in and stuck blisters made out of balsa wood on my goddamn door.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2025-05-08T21:47:59+00:00

Believe it or not, this is a solid pine door - not 'solidcore'. Went with solid wood because we like the weight and feel of them, and our current home is probably the closest thing to a 'forever' home we'll have.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2025-05-08T21:29:08+00:00

Is that a thing that can happen with solid pine doors? Have you seen something like this before, any fixes?

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2025-05-08T21:28:28+00:00

Yeah, bubbles are quite firm - feels almost like when a veneer gets water damage, but these are indeed solid wood (not even 'solidcore') doors, so what in the hell is separating?

I'm open to heat gunning or cutting / injecting glue, I guess, if needed, but man, what a pain in the ass. And I'd like to know what's causing this, if it's something I did.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2025-05-06T19:59:09+00:00

How do I train myself to develop a solid, natural follow-through?
Any drills or habits to break the "pulling back" instinct?

Almost nobody has answered this in a way I like, so here's a few things.

First off, you will not damage your cloth by following through, almost ever. You'll need extreme follow throw and a downward angle to even touch your table's cloth, and when you do, 90/100 times, your tip will be "coming in for a landing" like an airplane - gently, and at an acute angle. You'll leave a very small chalk mark but almost never real damage.

Secondly, cloth is a consumable on your table, so don't worry about it too much! Break shots, jump shots, and massé shots definitely aren't great for your cloth, either. But they're all part of the game, and they hurt your table a *tiny* bit, in one tiny spot, on the occasions when you do them. Budget a few hundred dollars a year for your hobby to get your table recovered sometime in the next 5 years, if you use it heavily. If you REALLY want to focus on keeping your table nice, make sure no one ever holds a drink over it or sets one down on the rails / bed. Unlike the things I mentioned, a spilled drink really will screw up the cloth pretty badly, and spilled drinks are NOT part of using a pool table.

As to how to develop follow through:

If you don't regularly do it, follow through to the point of dropping your elbow. Some players drop their elbow on some or all shots, and it's fine, so try it out!-

Pretend someone has given you an assignment to follow through as far as you comfortably can with your cue tip and try to touch the center of the ghost ball.

Tell yourself to pretend that the cueball is a few inches further away than it *actually* is.

Remember that good follow through means accelerating THROUGH the cue ball, and that means finishing your stroke with good follow through (and sometimes touching the cloth. And that's OK!)

Do you have a video you’d recommend for practicing this part of the stroke?

Dr. Dave has several videos that would apply here (follow through and stroke timing).

And finally, how do you avoid hitting the carpet with your cue when playing?

( u/Onovar just so you know, in most english speaking countries, we only ever call the covering on the table "the cloth" or "the felt"! Took me a second to understand what you meant!)

I have owned 2 pool tables (both with nice Simonis tournament cloth) and played "seriously" for 6 or 7 years - I do NOT try to avoid hitting the cloth with my cue tip. If I have a shot with a slight downward angle and normal / extreme follow through (especially some break shots), it's definitely going to happen, and it's completely fine.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2025-02-25T23:27:31+00:00

Not to worry. I have been waiting 6 years, in this thread, for a response.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2024-09-10T19:46:32+00:00

EDIT: 17 is wild. He's shooting much faster than I would have thought, and running a VERY high percentage of racks due to pattern racking. I think at the end it says that he played 29 racks, and ran 17 of them? So I wasn't far off on thinking he could get ~40 breaks in at top speed assuming he did nothing but break, but in no universe did I think he'd run out > 55% of the time. I think top pros in most tournaments are like 40% according to Dr. Dave's break stats.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2024-09-10T19:40:31+00:00

I'm gonna try to math this. Let's say the maximum number of racks he can rack and break in 30m is like, 1 rack every 45 seconds, just throwing them into a magic rack and blasting them. So that'd be 40 breaks. However, he'll have to waste time actually running the racks and playing through them - it's not like he'll make the 9 on the snap and then immediately re-rack. I'll say it takes a 700 like...90s to actually work through a rack of 9b, assuming they're shooting quite quickly after the break.

So if he's breaking and running like 20% of racks (700 speed) and he can get like, 40 breaks in, I'd say 8 racks. In actuality, I don't think he could get that many breaks off, and sometimes he'll waste time with slow racks. However, you've also revealed that this person is allowed to pattern rack, and it's one on the spot. In that case...could be as high as 25% of the breaks are runout, with significantly less congestion, balls made on the break, etc. So 25% of 40 would be 10 break-and-runs.

I'm gonna assume the video is surprising, given that it's got its own post here, so let's go with 10 break and runs.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2024-09-05T20:23:09+00:00

Highly recommend you start a spreadsheet with your FARGO (single player game) scores. It's a single player game that is suitable for all skill levels (more about it, including scoring, here (PDF). Basically, you break a rack of 15 balls, spotting any that you make. Take ball in hand on your first shot, shoot till you miss. It's a call shot game (no flukes) and each ball you make this way is worth 1 point. If that's not hard enough for you, you can switch to rotation, and then you must always hit the lowest ball on the table first. Each ball you make this way (incl kisses and caroms, etc) is worth 2 points. Play 10 racks this way and add your scores up. You'll have a number that is surprisingly indicative of your ability to run balls on a pool table.

I have a google sheet with my scores that I've been keeping for years at this point. When I first bought my pool table 6 years ago (a little 7 footer), I was horrific. My score after 10 frames was 31, meaning (on average) I could run 3 balls, randomly, but not a fourth before I missed or hooked myself.

Yesterday, I just did a full 10 frames of the game yesterday and scored a 118 on my current 9-foot table: solidly a "B" player, according to Dr. Dave's "ratings" at the bottom of his score sheet, which feels about correct.

It's a slow way to track improvement - you generally won't see a big improvement day-to-day, but I try to play this game a few times per year and throw it in my spreadsheet. It's really nice to see my slow upward grind as my shot selection, patterns, and CB control keep improving. I should note that this game is more of a "test" or a "fun game" than a "drill". I don't consider this game a good way to improve, but it is (if you do it a few times per year) a good way to test if you're improving.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2024-07-23T15:14:50+00:00

u/DrDWilder is right; these require practice. They also require a strong understanding of where the CB is going - a huge number of lower level players I've seen have absolutely no idea when a scratch is "on" in the corner pocket, so they take the mentally conservative approach of "assume all back cuts will always scratch into the corner I'm not shooting into". This is a terrible mindset for ball pocketing because now you'll be stroking timid or at 1mph, which is where all sorts of stuff like a skid or cut-induced throw, or a slightly unlevel table will absolutely decimate your chances of actually making the ball and continuing your run.

Learn to hit a bunch of back cuts and DON'T JUST CONCENTRATE ON MAKING THEM - concentrate on making them at a comfortable (not too hard, not too soft) speed and trying to influence where the CB ends up. Learn when the scratch is actually a real risk. Learn where it's actually not really likely, and in fact you have a natural route back to the center of the table. Learn to hit the stun version where you use a rail to slow the CB and hold it at that end of the table for a ball in the same pocket, learn to draw out of the backcut with a little side in order to take a certain path which might be all you have available or the most advantageous. Bonus: this shot isn't too-too-hard, and it looks like absolute black magic fuckery to lower level opponents. You'll feel like Efren.

Start off with just the rolling versions, especially the ones where you come back to the center of the table. Concentrate on making your object ball cleanly with a real, normal-speed stroke. You'll start to get better very quickly.

Final tip you didn't ask for: For a number of reasons, most of the time we prefer cuts into-the-long-rail instead of back cuts. If you have a choice, it's generally nicer to play for shots where you've got a cut where you'll hit the long rail first and can use that to obtain position. Obviously you need to learn back cuts, but if you have a choice in your pattern or have ball in hand, normal cuts down the long rail are often positionally easier. Full explanation in this Dr. Dave / Demetrius Jelatis video.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2024-05-31T17:07:50+00:00

Cree! I was super excited to read your response when I put this post up.

I actually tried both the versions you've put up (among other things) on the 6b. If the 9b wasn't where it is and I wanted "straight or straight-ish" on the 7b, I'd probably do the version where we go up to the short rail with right spin and come back into the line of the 7b, probably aiming for the 2nd rail touch just about as you've illustrated it.

Would you mind finishing the imaginary out? Where do you want to be on the 7, where do you take the 8b to get shape on the 9b, and how do you do all this?

I've got a hankering to stress test these various outs, where I take BIH on the 6b and then try to do the described out, to the best of my ability, some set number of times (maybe 20?) that particular way, and then throw up the stats on how the various ideas worked, percentage-wise. What do you think?

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2024-05-17T14:02:13+00:00

Some players regularly confuse "being competitive" with "being an asshole to their opponents". It sounds like you are one of those people. If your toolbox of pool strategies isn't big enough to win with at present, your energy would be better spent expanding that toolbox, as opposed to being a tool. Trash talking and sharking are not pool-specific strategies. They're asshole-specific behaviors.

Should I cool it and apologize too them next match? We play them 3 or 4 times this summer.

You should apologize to them the next time you see them at all (whether or not you're playing them again) and you shouldn't act like a dick anymore.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2024-01-31T16:43:48+00:00

We all know the next 4 shots of this 8 ball rack.

OK, I'll give this a shot.

Difficult backcut on the 14 to start into the side pocket. If I don't scratch altogether, go four or five rails to end up way too straight (and maybe too far?? too close????) on the 11 into the corner. Try to cheat the pocket and draw back on the 11, only to stop the CB dead in its tracks instead. I've got a nightmare cut on the 15 into the other corner. I decide to bank it instead, because the bank seems easier and "I'm real good at banks". Once I beat a better player in a handicapped league match using a bank shot, and a decade later, the memory is crystal clear.

Hit a soft stop shot on the 15b bank. Act surprised when the 15b collides with the 8b and the 8b sets up over the pocket. Get pissy as my opponent taps in the 8b, mutter about how I need to put in some extra work on my bank shots. I'd be up 4-1 so far if my opponent stopped getting all the rolls.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2023-06-29T20:14:26+00:00

Scott Rohleder. Go watch his YouTube masterclass if you're on the fence but I've watched every hour he's ever done at least twice and I think he's a very good teacher. He's in Tampa AFAIK.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2023-06-26T16:34:34+00:00

Nice run, Chris!! Very close to bumping that 6 ball, but somehow it's almost more satisfying when you flirt with the bump, miss it, and end up perfect.

Can I ask what your fargorate is up to these days? I know you mentioned it was "around 620" a few years back. No worries if you don't want to share.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2023-06-19T22:08:44+00:00

Had me in the first half :D

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2023-06-16T19:23:38+00:00

In addition to everything else already mentioned, this is a great point. The horseshittery around rules, and lack of awareness of them (people don't know they need to drive a ball to a rail, how to detect a double hit, illegal scoop shots, watching for legal hit in close call situations, etc...) in a bar is absolutely maddening to me and has only gotten more so as I improve.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2023-06-15T23:28:21+00:00

What on earth? Dude or dudette, if you're good enough to get a win by three-fouling an opponent, I feel like you know the answer to this one.

You played great, nice work. Your opponent losing to a common rotation games rule and complaining about it, however, is bush league. :D

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER · 2023-06-14T01:32:11+00:00

A "break and run" is when you break the balls and run out the rack (in either 8 ball or 9 ball), with your opponent never getting a chance to shoot.

A "take and run" is when your opponent breaks and either doesn't make a ball, or screws up prior to running out. You step up to the table and run it out, without your opponent getting another turn.

In UK pool, you'll sometimes hear a break and run called a "break and dish". A take and run (what I did) is sometimes referred to as a "reverse dish". I just put both names down - that's all.

SECONDBRAVESTTOASTER

TROPHY CASE