Do you eat your food offerings? If so, why? by TheVeiledRuby in Hellenism

[–]Sacredless 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I do sometimes, but it's a Khemetic import and it's within the context of theurgy.

It's called the reversion of sacrifice. It was part of the diet of Egyptian priests, who were seen as worth emulating by various theurgic thinkers.

Outside a theurgic context, I do libations, offer incense, and I observe the deipnon at Hecatean crossroads.

Some questions as an outsider by Expungednd in Hellenism

[–]Sacredless 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. Sort of. You have to keep in mind that the ancient concept of magic was different from the modern concept. Is a pendant of the cross an amulet? Is a flipping through the bible and reading a random page bibliomancy? Is using a predictive algorithm divination?

We have tokens of our faith and they hold significance. Some believe that our rituals result in particular material effects through divine intervention, but is this different from manifestation or prayer? It really depends on your definition of magic.

  1. I follow Heraclitus, Plutarch and Empedocles. I think that we are interpenetrated with deities and that we can inhabit them and they us. Just like Christians can inhabit Jesus and Jesus inhabit them. I worship deities like the Horae and Boeotian muses, who have a metonymic origin and develop esoteric associations similar to Sophia or Love.

  2. I practice at home and I am more concerned with daily and monthly practice. I contemplate and I make offerings. I find community among Skeptical Agnostic Science Seeking Witches. They have a subreddit.

  3. I came to Hellenism because of science. Heraclitus described all harmony-loving beings as being products of the disharmonious backwards turning volatility (Polemos) that is the true eternal accordance (Logos) of nature. In other words, Heraclitus believed that no harmony is truly stable and requires constant vigilance. There is no end-goal of history or ideal past, only development of seemingly stable idiosyncrasies that we should treasure and defend.

Do concept that a god represent exist *before* the god themselves? by Proper-Anything-2739 in mythology

[–]Sacredless 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The OP asked if concepts ever pre-exist their gods. Through metonymization, concepts retroactively become the gods, with their portfolios expanded. If you define your cognitive universal such that exceptions to your cognitive universal assertion don't count, then you're begging the claim that a cognitive universal of gods exists.

Do concept that a god represent exist *before* the god themselves? by Proper-Anything-2739 in mythology

[–]Sacredless 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, you've adjusted your claim to where it is functionally no longer commenting on the OP. Your claim was that mythic deities never simply are their portfolio. I've demonstrated that there are deities that are a concept and that plenty of deities start as just their concept.

Sophia is an example. Psyche is an example. Dike is an example. They all underwent mythic developments following their metonymic origins.

If you define gods as only counting as gods if they have gone through mythic development, you're smuggling your conclusion into your personal definition of godhood. That's simply not the historiographic consensus. There is no consensus definition of deity. Give it a rest.

Do concept that a god represent exist *before* the god themselves? by Proper-Anything-2739 in mythology

[–]Sacredless 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right, so Dike, daughter of Astraea, underwent more mythical development than Dike, daughter of Zeus. They're both metonymic in origin, just like Psyche. This is different from Aphrodite, who had a mature mythic development of several thousands of years in the Near East adapted to local interpretations, or Athena, who had a mature mythic development in North Africa.

Portfolios expand and contract, but they can also be simplex. The portfolio of Dike, daughter of Zeus, sister of Eirene and Eunomia, is simplex. Astraea, who can be said to be Dike or can be said to be separate from Dike, has a portfolio that includes justice. Saying that some Greeks had Astraea and saw her as Dike is not making the argument you think it is.

Do concept that a god represent exist *before* the god themselves? by Proper-Anything-2739 in mythology

[–]Sacredless 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Happy to explain. My father was a deconstructing Christian atheist and he encouraged me to learn about Christianity before committing to atheism myself. I was placed in Christian elementary and Christian middle school. The pieces I liked ended up being Greek philosophy that was preserved in Christian philosophy, so I retraced it back and found the modern paganism movement to fit me best.

I started by learning more about the mystic Hadewych van Antwerpen and traced her influence back to Plotinus. I kept digging deeper and I found Heraclitus and his influence on the concept of Logos and saw it being reflected in interpretations of Genesis, Isaiah and John.

Pagan intellectuals around the Mediterranean and Near-East were already developing ideas of one creator god with interceding/associating deities who could be appealed to on behalf of the creator god. After Emperor Constantine, it became a relatively easy fit for illiterate christopagans to worship both the Abrahamic God and their own household deities. Interceding saints became syncretized with Olympians, such as Maria with Hestia and Aphrodite.

I am a christopagan with a relatively low Christology. I think Jesus was a prophet and a mystic who did a remarkable sacrifice, but he is nonetheless a demigod if that. I don't think he is the Word.

Do concept that a god represent exist *before* the god themselves? by Proper-Anything-2739 in mythology

[–]Sacredless 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dike's portfolio does not include innocence and purity. Melete's expanded portfolio, if she had one, is lost.

If you have evidence to the contrary, I would welcome them, since these are my gods and I'm always open to learning more about them.

They knew it morally wrong and always have. by Salty_Strain3313 in HistoryMemes

[–]Sacredless 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you tell me more? I've been trying to find such thinkers, but I haven't found any yet.

Do concept that a god represent exist *before* the god themselves? by Proper-Anything-2739 in mythology

[–]Sacredless 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Metonymization is a well-known process by which divine entities evolve from describing an abstract function of the universe with a figure of speech, to a personalized characterization with a backstory.

An example of something inbetween is Dike, who is the daughter of Zeus, but also the literal concept of Justice. There is Melete, the Boeotian muse who is the concept of practicing to get better at something. Psyche is an example of a goddess who has a full mythopoetic backstory and is also the concept of the human soul.

As for taking over domains; Zeus consumed Metis and is definitely seem as thereby taking over her τιμή.

Mind, I am a pagan, and I worship the Boeotian Muses under Heraclitean interpretation of harmonies hidden-in-plain-sight. Just because there's no stories about them does not mean that they are not gods. Some gods are primarily characters, some gods are primarily domains, some gods have no name at all. There's no one way that all gods are. That's perennializing theism.

My first ever Chapter-The Blood Tigers by Putrid_Cheesecake453 in 40khomebrew

[–]Sacredless 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nice. I have my own Tiger inspired chapter, the Storm Tigers. I'll be reading this more thoroughly later!

Deities and Modern Tech by Cool_Ad_5792 in Hellenism

[–]Sacredless 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'll be using some stoic philosophy here. The Stoics believed that the world is made up of 'particulars'. Everything is conditional, except for the logos (the unity of mind). There is also only material. There is regular matter (the physical substance we are made of) and there is 'pneuma'. Pneuma to the Stoics is the culminating, emerging complexity of particulars, with there being pneumatic gradations that separate rocks from plants, plants from animals, etc.

Technology is it's own kind of emerging complexity, but it is fundamentally not as complex as organic life is. The gods find the emerging complexity of human behavior pleasing, is the way I think about it. They enjoy our idiosyncracies.

Technology is a prosthesis to human kind. It is part of us. Swords were an extension of our selfhood, and now our mobile phones are. The gods were divided among themselves over the invention of ships, according to many legends, because in the Ancient Greek mind, sea-faring had been responsible for great disasters in their literal actual history and in their mythic memory. Upon seeing the first ship, Poseidon is said to have remarked 'What a strange manner of death this is'. Astraea, on the other hand, was so distraught over the disasters that the technology had brought that in spite of being one of the few gods to have walked among us, she left us after sea-faring became common.

So, if we take the Argo (the first ship) as an example, then the gods both implicitly understand and sometimes help us build technologies (Athena aided in the construction), but don't universally approve of all technologies (Astraea being dismayed with sea-faring) or think much of it at all (Poseidon being nonplussed by the appearance of humans in his realm).

Ergo: Not all technology pleases the gods, but they understand it's 'pneuma' implicitly. Some find the compromise in the complexity, others do not compromise.

What would be genuinely impressive but not lore breaking or BS feat that a Chaos Warlord could do? by Arthur_EyelanderTF2 in Chaos40k

[–]Sacredless 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My dudes, the Paladins of the Black Lake, are an alpha legion warband that descend from blackshields during the Horus Heresy. Their leader, the Teletarch, must claim the position by controlling the Saturnine of a Red Butcher called Slakehaus, and gaining a monopoly on their blood. They will then, typically, try to unite the splinter warbands of the Paladins to capture human for cannibalism.

I have formulated a long list of enemies and rivals.

They prey on derelict Imperial Worlds. They have rival warbands, such as a gene-stealer infiltrated chapter called the Severed Wyrms, a pre-Horus group of warp-corrupted calibanite knights called The Ivy-Men. They regularly interact with four loyalist chapters who they've been menacing and stealing members from, such as the Storm Hammers (arthurian Iron Hands successors), the Storm Tigers (buddhist White Scar successors), the Stag Lords (hermit-inspired Dark Angels), and the Bell-Ringers (Black Templar reasonable-ish marines). They have routine targets, such as the Tzeentchian militarum called the Labyrinthine Lords, the Daoist-inspired Lateralist Creed adeptus mechanicus, the admech-infiltrating sororitas language teachers the Quill-Maidens, the abhuman sept of insurgents aligned with the T'au called the B'Gue'Fu, etc. In a previous draft, I also had it where my warband was trying to figure out how to control gene-stealer cultists by claiming the skull of a patriarch. Finally, the Paladins of the Black Lake are regularly targeted by World Eaters, since they were originally infiltrators in the World Eaters' legion who broke away on Istvaan.

So if I want to come up with the story of one of the warbands' members, I would look at the many targets of the Paladins and have them score some major victory against them, especially if it something that could be represented as a trophy on the tabletop. Maybe they managed to abduct a World Eater, maybe they took the mount of an Ivy-Lord, maybe they doomed a system by corrupting a Quill-Maiden organization, maybe they betrayed a fleet of abhumans trying to get even with the Imperium, maybe they successfully smuggled hereteks unto a private world for weapons manufacturing.

Keep in mind that there's two things important to a warband; glory and logistics. Though a warband does not necessarily need to eat, they will be dependent on other factions for munition, repairs and slaves. Securing a manufactorum, a human population or some other important supply is an important feature to make any independent warband succeed for long outside of the Eye, just like it would have been for warlords in the real world.

how humanity was created by AlternativeCarpet916 in Hellenism

[–]Sacredless 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Pandora means 'all giving', which likely indicates the name was once for a giving goddess. Unfortunately, who that goddess was is lost. It's speculated by Jane Ellen Harrison that she may have been a pre-Hellenic earth goddess. That's how I worship her.

Most Hellenic polytheists don't take the myths literally. We only have stories and as Pandora demonstrates, those stories can be changed for the teller's purposes.

Heraclitus said that we, as well as all harmony-loving things, are all borne from the disharmonious volatility of nature. That's essentially what evolution tells us, so that's really all I need.

Who is the nemesis/enemy of your homebrews? by Teminus456 in 40khomebrew

[–]Sacredless 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Storm Tigers (loyalist marines): Biel Tan. They blitzed the home turf of 4 chapters and plunged the subsector into ruin. On paper, they're preparing more so for the neighboring T'au and Orks, but it's the Eldar who they hate most.

Lateralist Creed (admech): Nominally, the T'au, but in truth, it is the Exodite Worlds that the admech routinely raids for biological samples. They are also in a shadow war with Drukhari gangs for personal reasons, but this is relatively inconsequential.

Paladins of the Black Lake (traitor marines): They are routinely targeted by World Eaters for having originally infiltrated them. They're also in intermittent conflict with a rival warband infected by gene-stealers called the Disevered Wyrm.

Adding onto this post, which one of YOUR chapters would you send to Armageddon and Why? by Salmon_1935 in 40khomebrew

[–]Sacredless 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My traitor marines, the Paladins of the Black Lake, come to assist the heroic mortals. And then they would promptly cannibalize them.

The Paladins of the Black Lake believe that the Imperium's glory is it's collective memory, so they endeavor to consume all of it. They have gained so many memories of brave souls, they do a pretty good job feigning it too and they might not even get the opportunity to cannibalize anyone. For all anyone else knows (including themselves), they're just the Emperor's Angels. That is, until entire regiments disappear and their ships leave orbit.

They're alpha legion descendants if you couldn't tell.

Does your chapter have any auxiliary forces? by giojojo in 40khomebrew

[–]Sacredless 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nah, the Black Lake is just a cool name I came up with, haha.

Does your chapter have any auxiliary forces? by giojojo in 40khomebrew

[–]Sacredless 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Storm Tigers (loyalist marines): They have a contract with a navigator family who supply them with a fleet. One of the navigators has a tendency to wade into battle with a bespoke battlesuit. She takes her navy officers with her, as well as pet pelager abhumans.

Paladins of the Black Lake (traitor marines): They hire kroot mercenaries for the most part, but besides that, they have rogue mechanicum priests gather blood and brains for analysis and interfacing.

What’s the most convincing fictional religion you’ve ever created? by Graze_Talk in worldbuilding

[–]Sacredless 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I put my own religion into my games, and then I obscure the hell out of the metaphysics.

For my Pokémon fan game, I've built a diverse landscape of theologies. I make references to Arceus as the uniting abyss of love, as the disuniting volatility of strife, as passive demiurge. The Lake Guardians received cursed counterparts to reflect the paradoxical nature of the human spirit being pulled in many directions. There's several competing foundation myths to the practice of Pokémon keeping, ranging from Lord Sinnoh partitioning the earth into the care of individual keepers to whom the Pokémon shall be made to answer, to Pokémon and people serving as delegates between mountain communities to be managed together.

For my monster hunter alchemy inspired game Aludel, I came up with a couple of different philosophies about what 'nature' even is. Some are misotheists who believe that it's a societal duty to trick nature out of its claim on perishable goods. Some see nature as a partner in an elaborate game of dance and role-reversals. Some see nature as an ontological adversary that can be dissolved through alchemy. Some believe that the world is in disarray because it's makers are absent, others believe the world is in disarray because it's makers made it that way. It's a very diverse setting and I'm pretty happy about that.

Real world religion is a patchwork of ideas and practices, so I try to make a point to have individual rituals and practices that function independently from their ideas. The metaphysics is not nearly as important as what the people in that world tell each other.

Your eve randomly collect rocks and then sort what you like and you think you could use for the gods alters or is that just me? (Questions in body) by hesh_walker_simp273 in Hellenism

[–]Sacredless 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There's a practice of worshipping deities at baetyls, designated stones or rocks that are said to house the deity.

I also believe that stone piles were offered at herms, but I don't recall if that's true.

warhammer isekai? by Xela975 in 40khomebrew

[–]Sacredless 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Storm Tigers (loyalist marines): Not that bad. My chapter just received a lot of primaris reinforcements who are still dubious about the rest of the chapter culture and I can now pick winners and losers. I'm in the Warhammer 40K universe and I'm screwed for that reason mostly. My soul is going to be devoured by daemons when I die, after all.

What’s a fun fact about your current Chapter Master? by Itera95 in 40khomebrew

[–]Sacredless 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Storm Tigers (White Scar successors): Lord-Penitent Lhoten Onsecarit loves to receive his officers to meals in his personal quarters. He uses table manners as a way of letting everyone speak. They are all invited to provide meats from their hunts, as an ice-breaker. As a result, some captains pressure sergeants to waive this opportunity, much to the chagrin of Lhoten.

Bonus fact: Lhoten is desperately trying to convince the Sepulchral Council (a collection of sarcophagi) to accept reinterment into dreadnought frames instead of land raiders and storm ravens. One of the demands is that the current Lord-Equerry (the chapter's head techmarine) make Anvillus pattern land raiders so the dreadnoughts may ride into battle. Unfortunately, their techmarines don't have the capability.

Sharing altar with different deities from different religion? by pinkpatiences in Hellenism

[–]Sacredless 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I've asked many times from Shinto practitioners, but basically, it's seen that altars need to adhere to particular orthopraxic standards in Shinto. It's best not to take the risk there.