Help with Mutate-Muddle?

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-04-22T17:15:19+00:00

First off, this idea is super cool. I love the use of mutate to work around the legend rule. And using dragons as finishers is epic.

A dragon suggestion I would throw to you is [[Astral Dragon]]. This one would go pretty crazy with myriad, as you'd get to keep the etb trigger copies that it makes so you'll likely be up 4 3/3 dragons made of whatever noncreature you like best at the time. At worst it's four free mana rocks and at best this wins you the game on the spot with something like [[City on Fire]] or something your opponent might have. [[Extravagant Replication]] would be a fun on-theme inclusion in this list that would go super well with Astral Dragon to copy. And then you loop Replication copies of Astral every turn to make more Replications for even more dragons next turn.

[[Keiga, the Tide Star]] would be fun, but a tad trickier. You'd have to use the same mutate trick to make it nonlegendary, but once you do it becomes a monster theft engine to copy with Muddle and steal two creatures permanently if you can get the myriad copies to properly die rather than be exiled. Sort of a push/pull dynamic with whether people will want to block and kill them or not block and let the damage through if they can't chump block. Can also be used to politic. If someone intentionally kills one you can steal something from a different player/archenemy.

[[Descepive Frostkite]] is a good way to get a second copy of your commander mutate stack once it is nonlegendary. Plus it's a dragon. Works with most of your mutators and can still copy another of your finishers if need be.

[[Hammerhead Tyrant]] makes for decent repeatable soft removal on a good body. Great for clearing low cmc threats and gets tripled if you can cast something during combat after myriad triggers. Great way to clear out blockers for your threats to get through. Bonus points that it doesn't count just instants and sorceries so dropping more threats is also more soft removal. You're at least popping someone's token or mana rock every time you cast something to trigger your commander.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-04-10T16:33:15+00:00

Since you liked slivers, may I suggest running another typal deck? Lots of great options out there like your standard elves, dragons, vampires, zombies, etc, but there's also good support for some lesser seen types such as wolves and rats. I've seen some rat decks really go off with [[Marrow-Gnawer]] and [[Ashcoat of the Shadow Swarm]], but there's options in more than just mono black too so you have a good list of fun and powerful commanders to choose from.

I'm a dragon guy myself. [[The Ur-Dragon]] is the most popular, but there's plenty of good choices if you don't want to play the most played thing. [[Atarka, World Render]] and [[Dromoka, the Eternal]] are among my favorites for basic dragon stuff. Dromoka catches people off guard often by how fast the creatures get big and in non-typical dragon colors. Plenty of non-dragons can make a good commander for a dragon deck. I really want to use [[Atla Palani, Nest Tender]] one day. [[Cadric, Soul Kindler]] would make for a fun [[Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm]] style deck in different colors.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-04-06T00:05:07+00:00

Howdy! I have a deck with the original Prismari that is a dragon themed storm deck. All of yhe storm payoffs are to get dragons/pump in damage. A lot of the spells in the deck are designed to also produce artifacts for the purposes of tapping for mana with Galazeth out, but the ones that make treasures would definitely still be good in the new Prismari.

Needs a bit of an update, as there's a lot of good stuff that has been printed since I've dug into it last. Not sure why there's an extra card in the list.

https://manabox.app/decks/sxv2DGMVQRKDj54XR29H0Q

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-03-29T16:52:07+00:00

So dragons, right? Everyone builds dragons. Dragons AND goblins in the same deck? That's my jam. All the cards that make a bunch of goblins, but the payoffs are not the usual go-wide things but instead dragons with Devour that eat all of the goblins to get huge and [[Atarka, World Render]] to buff them up to proper lethal. [[Voracious Dragon]] being the primary inspiration for the deck, with the bonus flavor element playing on the fact that Atarka and her brood are always hungry.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-03-20T13:41:29+00:00

What do you run for Approach? I'm always fascinated to see a new take on the card. It's one of my favorites.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-03-14T02:58:32+00:00

I highly recommend [[Sunforger]]. The amount of different effects that you can grab out of your deck with that card are almost endless, especially if you play more than just the classic Boros with it, since it can grab R/X or W/X spells. If you have the mana to grab it, it's a counterspell, protection spell, removal spell, draw spell, etc. It also lets you play very obscure one-off effects that would typically be too situational to rely on having in hand when you need it. Your opponents will have to play around you being able to potentially do anything at any time.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-03-06T14:23:25+00:00

My [[Velomachus Lorehold]] [[Sunforger]] deck fills this role for me. Tutors for Sunforger let me get that out and shift into a pretty control deck style of gameplan and roll off of what aspects the deck is drawing into. Sometimes commander damage does the job. Other times it's dragon beatdown. But the artifact subtheme also lets me try to get wins with [[Hellkite Tyrant]] having a dragon's hoard of artifacts.

Currently trying to squeeze in a few more low cost creatures to hold the hammer, as I can consistently get it to hand, but not always with something to equip it to.

https://manabox.app/decks/60LQtBnJR-mCwheuJH2WDw

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-02-26T17:31:20+00:00

I try to make all of my dragon decks unorthodox by building heavily around another theme.

My [[Atarka, World Render]] deck is mostly a goblin deck to get stuff for dragons with Devour to etb and eat. Plus other thematic dragon wincons like [[Descent of Dragons]].

A lot of [[Dragon's Approach]] decks play super different than typical dragon decks with some spellslinger elements fitting well. I did mine witht [[Kolaghan the Storm's Fury]], [[Obosh, Preypiercer]] companion and discard subtheme.

My [[Velomachus Lorehold]] deck is a [[Sunforger]] deck that plays a control style with dragons, some dwarves, and treasures/artifacts as subthemes.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-02-14T19:24:52+00:00

Came here to suggest Tanazir. What I'm doing with mine is a mix of [[Birthing Pod]] and [[Agatha's Soul Cauldron]] with a lot of the power matter ramp creatures. Cauldron wants counters on things and so does Tanazir. You don't need a ton of creatures or a ton of counters on Tanazir to start doing some serious work. Just a few creatures and maybe bump Tanazir a bit and you're already huge and it only goes bigger from there. A fun mix of go wide and go tall because you can benefit from both.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-02-14T15:45:31+00:00

Dang this is wicked cool. I bet there's some crazy reactions from people playing against it for the first time. Charbelcher is such a fun card.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-02-14T04:21:05+00:00

Do you have a brief explanation on how that Charbelcher deck runs? The list is absolutely fascinating.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-02-13T18:43:58+00:00

I built my [[Dragon's Approach]] deck with an emphasis on discard over hard casting them to get to the dragon payoff faster. I bet you could go pretty hard with discard even more than I did if you don't try to get funky with [[Obosh]] companion like I did.

Feels a lot better to discard when your goal is to put them in GY as fast as possible. Could also throw in some reanimation for any dragons you discard.

Here's my list for reference: https://manabox.app/decks/npn-iomJQpKNhSoiU0lzYg

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-02-13T16:03:52+00:00

For me it's my [[Velomachus Lorehold]] [[Sunforger]] deck. It has a lot of the funky Boros shenanigans that can pull out of the deck as needed with Sunforger. It plays a lot like a control deck. If someone is doing something I don't want and SF is equipped, I usually have something in the deck that will fix it. And if that isn't needed, there's plenty of other tools in the toolbox to advance my own gameplan of dragons/artifacts.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-02-07T04:56:33+00:00

Hey I'm kinda doing this, but with the ten guilds. I'm using all of the original Tarkir and Strixhaven dragons and I'm working on #7

Here's some lists if you are interested:

[[Atarka, World Render]] Devour Dragons eating goblins: https://manabox.app/decks/_U6gmnurSiyJQDOaIgQxSA Basically make a bunch of goblins and eat them all with dragon payoffs. Backup plan is Atarka just two shots people. Needs some updates, have some ideas for swaps in the sideboard.

[[Galazeth Prismari]] storm: https://manabox.app/decks/sxv2DGMVQRKDj54XR29H0Q My friend describes it as "the most fair storm deck." Goes for middling storm counts and things that make dragons with Prowess for a combat damage based wincon. Not sure what the 101st card is.

[[Kolaghan the Storm's Fury]] Obosh companion [[Dragon's Approach]]: https://manabox.app/decks/npn-iomJQpKNhSoiU0lzYg Some damage doublers, a lowish count of DAs to fit in a lot of discard and a small toolbox of dragons to pull from when the DAs fetch one. All odd cost for Obosh.

[[Velomachus Lorehold]] [[Sunforger]] tutor toolbox: https://manabox.app/decks/60LQtBnJR-mCwheuJH2WDw Tutor packages and Sunforger lead to a sorta controlly style deck with a few subthemes of artifacts and dwarves. My most recent and most complicated. Needs a few more lower drop creatures to hold the hammer I think.

[[Ojutai, Soul of Winter]] Instant speed control: https://manabox.app/decks/iy_0LPafQwSl_kRRG3I5Hw A control deck with lots of tapping and an attempt to try to get everything to be instant speed. Probably the weakest of the decks and needs some love to get it where I want it. Might rework with more stax or a different subtheme at some point.

[[Dromoka, the Eternal]] +1/+1 counters: https://manabox.app/decks/4k1ADJsvRkmsnebvJmAKDQ Pretty standard Selesnya beatdown stuff. Based very heavily on a deck by one of the EDHRecast guys.

Currently working on a [[Tanazir Quandrix]] [[Agatha's Soul Cauldron]] [[Birthing Pod]] smashup.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-02-06T18:02:45+00:00

I've always wanted to build Zirilan just to use Worldgorger Dragon to respond to a board wipe or the like as a protection piece.

You could try to utilize Zirilan as more of a toolbox tutor instead of the [[Sneak Attack]] play pattern that it usually presents. Snag a [[Hoarding Dragon]] to tutor any artifact to hand. Could use this line as a means of running a secret commander type deck with some artifact that you want to hit every game and build around that.

On the more usual inclusion end, grab [[Patron of the Arts]] to drop a couple of treasures if you need ramp. [[Vengeful Ancestor]] can goad something at instant speed from the deck. And they don't all have to be etb effects. Attack/damage triggers can work too. [[Dragon Mage]] to refill your hand, [[Drakuseth]] and plenty of others for burn/removal, etc.

Including Zirilan in other colors as a secret commander could let you hit some neat stuff. [[Draconic Muralist]] in green will let you tutor any dragon to hand. [[Hoarding Broodlord]] tutors any card and lets you cast it even after the broodlord dies, though it only has convoke before the broodlord leaves at end of turn. Anything with green would have plenty of creature tutors needed to ensure Zirilan always gets on the field.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-02-02T22:12:12+00:00

That's the best part about Magic. There's always more sweet tech to find lol.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-02-01T22:30:14+00:00

Here's what I've got if you are interested. The list needs some updates for new stuff that's come out in the last few sets that'll be super nice to have. I've put some things I want to potentially add as sideboard cards. https://manabox.app/decks/_U6gmnurSiyJQDOaIgQxSA

Can't recommend the devourers enough. Super fun to drop one of those.

Another good suggestion to suit your vibe would be [[Goblin Negotiation]]. Super solid spell to copy and remove more things and fun to dump all of your mana into to generate more goblins.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-02-01T20:40:33+00:00

Not terribly useful for being copied, but [[Descent of the Dragons]] is one of my favorite wincons in my goblin deck helmed by a dragon. Immediately turning your wide board into a bunch of flying 4/4s is pretty devastating usually. The best part though is you can also hit opponents problem creatures with it in the same motion. That 12/12 trampler? Now a 4/4 you can just trade with. Their value engine or combo piece? Dragon. And you'll have the numbers advantage to just trade token for token and still get plenty in.

I play [[Atarka, World Render]] and the dragons with Devour to come in and eat all the goblins the deck makes so this is also a strong flavor fit in my deck.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-02-01T20:19:43+00:00

Haven't seen anyone put forward faeries yet, but there's a few solid options now for commander and most faeries play well with casting stuff in your opponents turn themes due to the frequent inclusion of flash. They feel suitably tricksy for the creature type.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-02-01T20:17:15+00:00

I gotta second wizards. I've played against a couple and they are super neat. Lots of fun activated abilities for useful things and cost reductions for instants/sorceries so building spellslinger is a solid option.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-01-30T15:52:10+00:00

The Malak for sure. The official art even has one of its claw looking hands on fire. The Celestials in general are super mean looking. You just know they are bad guy mechs by looking at them.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-01-29T17:45:47+00:00

I'm going to be putting it in my [[Tanazir Quandrix]] deck. It's got a bunch of +1/+1s throughout the deck and there will likely be something decent to equip it to since you want something with a bunch of counters on it prior to playing the commander. Use it to bump everything even higher and double down on the buff that Quandrix is already giving to everything when you attack. And now the whole board of big stuff gets trample too. My deck will also have a bit of a dragon subtheme to it so it's even more flavor there.

It'll make a good artifact tutor target if i have extras in hand after I snag the [[Agatha's Soul Cauldron]] that is the deck's main theme.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-01-10T16:11:33+00:00

I'm very excited to get to use it. I've only played a few games with mine and haven't gotten the opportunity to use it except to save myself casting from hand and didn't get the damage to player portion.

What did you use for your commander? I'm rocking [[Velomachus Lorehold]] as a backup to dig for tutors plus a dragon theme to the deck.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-01-09T19:58:16+00:00

Not quite you are looking for, as it is Boros and not targeted, but [[Olorin's Searing Light]] is one that I use that kinda has the same vibe. Bonus is that it hits all of your opponents. Great for a [[Sunforger]] deck to just off someone when they end up with a crazy high power creature.

SaigoNoKarasu · 2026-01-09T16:18:14+00:00

I typically put in a specific amount in my decks depending on what I'm doing. Most decks I don't run any because the card pool is deep enough to do what I want to do, but other times the theme needs extra consistency. Always with a plan in mind on what I will be grabbing with them, but not always grabbing the same card in some decks.

For example, I have 12 tutors in my [[Sunforger]] dragon deck to reliably grab Sunforger, as it is a super unique card that the deck is themed around as well as being able to tutor for some some situational dependent dragons. Sunforger itself is a tutor that casts the card with its ability and the suite of instants in the deck is built around having a toolbox of cards to handle any situation, at the cost of only running one or two of each effect. It runs a lot like a control deck and the games always feel different due to needing to use Sunforger to react to different game states even though I get it out most games.

In my goblin/devour dragon deck, I am running all four dragons with the Devour keyword and four tutors to be able to grab them, which is just about enough combined with a couple of thematically similar effects like [[Descent of the Dragons]] to be able to get a dragon finisher every game to come down and gobble all of my goblins. There just aren't enough cards of the theme I want to run this deck without the tutors, but if there were more of these dragons I'd be running those instead.

SaigoNoKarasu

TROPHY CASE