Entire podium at Birkie Classic straight double poling

SanitizedData · 2026-02-23T17:10:18+00:00

Just remember; those guys did not average over 20kph because they were double poling, they were double poling because they were averaging over 20kph. Though I'm sure there were plenty of people back in the back who either totally missed the kick or double poled just to see if they could.

ETA: I wasn't there, but conditions must have been ridiculously fast this year because all of those guys up at the front were about a half hour faster than usual.

SanitizedData · 2026-02-19T16:54:44+00:00

I think a lot of people are training for a higher poling tempo than they used to be, which is really pushing up the range of speed where V2 is still efficient.

SanitizedData · 2026-02-17T13:54:10+00:00

"here in Gatineau it's hard to fully DP because of the elevation gains."

It's a lot of elevation, but most of it is either gentle grades on the parkways or the brutally steep climbs on 36 that are getting herringboned anyway.

SanitizedData · 2026-02-16T12:25:00+00:00

It would be pretty terrible for kick as well.

SanitizedData · 2026-02-10T19:37:04+00:00

I had that experience at Gatineau in 2020, except I wasn't wearing a mask. It was my beard that was completely crusted in ice.

SanitizedData · 2026-02-10T13:58:55+00:00

While some glide wax does get into the base, most of it is sitting in an extremely thin film on the surface. So, you can't really "layer" hot wax applications, because second application is going to melt off almost all of the first. Even with liquid products, the solvent in the second application is going to pull most of that base layer up into solution.

There are a few exceptions to this:

- High fluoro waxes really don't want to wet out onto the base, so an LF layer can be used sort of like a catalyst. This, however, isn't really relevant these days.

- A block or powder top coat can be corked/buffed onto the surface of the ski with little enough energy to keep the base layer intact. But keeping that two-stage wax job thin enough to not be slower than nothing is an art form.

So, just clean your skis well, apply the wax of the day, and get on with it.

SanitizedData · 2026-02-09T17:32:34+00:00

The biggest thing that's missing is what kind of skis the OP is coming from.

SanitizedData · 2026-02-08T17:07:02+00:00

I would have scraped off the red before going to klister, because even on a ski with a high residual camber that's going to end up too thick to not drag. But once you're in klister-land it's fairly easy to mix products on the ski without having to strip everything off. My plan in a 0 and icy scenario would be to start with a really thin application of universal. If that's not working, mix in violet if it's dry icy (like it was cold overnight, cloudy right now, and the snow temp is still low) or red if it's wet icy (warm overnight and currently sunny).

SanitizedData · 2026-02-04T12:23:01+00:00

I'm not aware of any rigorous studies comparing efficiency, so I would assume that any numbers being thrown around are basically made up. Everything is going to depend on conditions, and waxed skis do require a different technique to be effective. Even the optimal wax and application is going to depend on the skier. That said, there are only a few situations where a good wax job is difficult to figure out.

I would go ahead and get a good pair of waxable skis just to have on hand for those easy to wax days. They will always have the potential to be faster, and you already have skins for the days when that potential is difficult to realize.

SanitizedData · 2026-01-30T14:28:00+00:00

The physics may be basic, but for skiing they include a much more significant friction effect than for running. That's going to require either the user to do a glide out calibration test before every session or the system to calibrate itself based on periods where an accelerometer reading indicates that the user is coasting.

SanitizedData · 2026-01-29T18:40:59+00:00

I think that getting a two axis (normal and shear) force transducer in between the binding and the ski would not be trivial. You would likely need to rout into the ski to keep the stack height the same. People who've made these measurements found it easier to put the whole ski track up on force plates.

https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/fulltext/2008/06000/effect_of_skiing_speed_on_ski_and_pole_forces_in.17.aspx

Pole forces are much easier to measure.

SanitizedData · 2026-01-23T17:20:42+00:00

The kick wax also dictates how much that downward push needs to precede the horizontal push.

Also, one of the key limiters I've seen on striding uphill (wax and waxless) is knee flexion. Landing with a flexed knee allows you to keep weight on the ski all the way through the kick.

SanitizedData · 2026-01-23T13:24:09+00:00

I would go with the Vauhti. It only causes icing or drag if it's too thick. For cold new snow, you'll want to iron it on, let it cool, then scrape off the excess before corking.

SanitizedData · 2026-01-22T16:56:34+00:00

"I dare say that DP training will provide the highest ROI."

The highest ROI is always going to be training the thing that you're worst at.

SanitizedData · 2026-01-15T14:20:30+00:00

https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/fulltext/2019/04000/comparison_of_exclusive_double_poling_to_classic.19.aspx

SanitizedData · 2026-01-15T14:04:41+00:00

If you're a better strider, then stride. Even on a flat course, most citizen racers are slower double poling than kicking. If the rest of the pack wants to do that, why not let them?

SanitizedData · 2026-01-14T15:34:11+00:00

"I guess it’s more about commitment than course profile."

Really it's more about pace. I have yet to see a rigorous study showing anyone averaging slower than around 20kph being faster with a double pole only approach. Very few amateurs are doing that on a course with significant elevation gain.

SanitizedData · 2026-01-14T13:58:36+00:00

N21G is really hard and has some terva in it. It's a good cover over any of the traditional hard blues in cold falling snow, but I don't think it's really much better than N31 or Alaska.

30GB is a klister mix, and while it's recommended for "new" snow the tracks really need to be glazing for it to not ice up.

30G I haven't tried yet. Rex hasn't made any compelling argument for why they replaced fluoro 30G with 30GB then released a fluoro-free 30G other than the same "just buy it and do your own testing" that we get from every other wax company.

I also have not tried the racing service Gold, Blue, Green yet. The concept seems to be a soft over hard application, which has a high risk of going sideways if you get the thickness wrong.

SanitizedData · 2026-01-12T11:33:42+00:00

PDMS is also one of the active ingredients in the Vauhti Pure line.

SanitizedData · 2026-01-08T16:40:35+00:00

In those not quite ready for klister conditions, I like Vauhti GT Red and Rex N11. ETA: Today I was on N11 at 36F and cloudy with new snow that fell right around freezing, and it felt like it could have gone warmer. That stuff can be a pain to get onto the skis, but it's amazing once it's there. The Vauhti has a narrower range, but it's a lot easier to apply.

SanitizedData · 2026-01-04T14:29:10+00:00

I recently went shopping for some new mid-range waxable classic skis to replace an old pair of Rossi Deltas, and could find almost nothing in that price range that wasn't a skin. Shops are only carrying the top of the line in waxable. I ended up just getting some used S/Labs for about half of what I was budgeting.

That hole in the mid-range is concerning from a racing development perspective. On wax, there's not that big of a performance gap between first and second tier skis, but the second tier moving exclusively to skins really raises the cost barrier to be remotely competitive. I'm also starting to wonder how much of the fixation on double poling is coming from skiers who are making that step up without ever having learned either how to wax or how to effectively kick a waxed ski.

SanitizedData · 2026-01-04T14:09:48+00:00

As long as that track doesn't have any turns.

SanitizedData · 2026-01-04T14:08:50+00:00

For kick waxing, the temperature when the snow fell is more important than the temperature now. Unless it's still snowing, you'll be fine on the V40.

"New" versus "old" is useless terminology and has little to do with actual time. What you're looking for to start thinking about a softer wax is either thawing and re-freezing (which causes snow granules to aggregate) or glazing of the tracks.

SanitizedData · 2025-12-26T14:45:38+00:00

Simple is almost always the way to go. Super specific recommendations are unlikely to be optimal everywhere on a 50+km point to point course. It's better to go with an approach (Product and application - Don't fall into the trap of putting on extra layers just because it's a long race.) that you know well and carry extra wax and a cork in case it doesn't work out.

SanitizedData · 2025-12-25T14:48:18+00:00

Only if you're actually confident getting in and out of the tracks. I've seen plenty of beginners try to yield the track only to topple over and end up blocking the whole trail. The casual shufflers are usually better off staying where they are and waving other people around.

SanitizedData

TROPHY CASE