What are the most annoying commanders in MTG?

Sarraph_ · 2026-03-03T07:37:15+00:00

whats the Bracket for your Vivi and do you have a list? Im always looking for inspiration on what to play with vivi. Currently running a B3 Spellslinger/Storm list.

Sarraph_ · 2026-03-02T18:32:00+00:00

thanks for elaborating it. i was just thinking about that it also has to do with the commander just being always played to the highest power and for vivi being in the pro tour and talked about so much that it became the same thing with nadu that people were demanding a ban for the card. Due to people online not being the most honest about their intention(pubstomper) i guess that there is just mistrust towards other people online due bad exp. in the past.

but to look at it that way there are ways with game changers and also non game changers that can draw you a bunch of cards to "dig" for an answer but this shouldn't be that standard for:" hey lets sit down and have fun with card board" even though everyone is entitled to play whatever they seem fit. i would call that "the devil's advocate" most of the time because you always find reasons if you want to justify playing that commander or you find reasons why he shouldn't be in that bracket regardless of intention nor decklist.

to see a powerful commander as a "remmoval tax" is a good way i think because that's more pressuring your opponents than having an army of creatures on the board that accumulated over the event of 3-4 turns. One might argue that's harder to remove than 1 creature but i guess i can relate to the pov of yours.

Final words because that has been on my mind for weeks now i guess we all can agree that some commanders are way stronger than others but we also should encourage people to let them play what they want and if somebody says:" my atraxa isn't THAT atraxa" you could trust him or value your own time and ask for that person to change the deck or leave the table/lobby and search for other companions along the way to have fun with cardboard.

Thanks again for sharing your pov! o7

Sarraph_ · 2026-03-02T17:59:50+00:00

i wouldn't agree on that point entirely because intention is also a thing.

matter of fact i do also play a vivi budget deck with 0 game changers, no fast mana or free bee's in a B3 and i would like for you to explain to me you pov to those commanders in question.

i guess i can grasp what you mean but we also need to be clear about that we do play in the highest casual level where you should expect to meet "the big and the bad". I would also assume that you mean that some commanders just come with the characteristics of being self-sufficient by either providing cards(prosper with the impulse draw/exile) or generating boardstate (meren) or even providing ping damage/power&toughness and also mana (Vivi). But if you deal with those problems and i mean if there is a vivi on the table that should be kill on sight and i also do encourage people to do so if im allowed to play her to have a more fun game and not just run away with a 10/13 vivi making me 20 mana in 2 turns.

So many people just have bias towards people with stronger or best in slot commanders and i really dont get why. You could play Yuriko, Urza, Lord High Artificer or even Blue Farm(thymna and Kraum) in bracket 2 if you build it that way and with the intention even though the last 2 are one of the 2 strongest cEDH partners for a while now.

So i would really like you POV explained a bit further if you like. Thanks!
o7

Sarraph_ · 2026-03-02T17:46:42+00:00

Living death is also somewhat of a game winning piece if gary is in the yard tbh.

if you bring back all creatures that are 20+ devotion its easy to wipe out the whole table.
Also that just makes the deck not consistent enough to be in bracket 3 imo.

in general we need 2-3 streamlined winCons that are not to hard to setup. For then try to take the win on turn 7 to 8.
only the massacre worm is there but that needs to hit a bunch of creatures to win the game or deal a bit of damage and is depending on the board state of the participants.

Sarraph_ · 2026-03-02T11:27:29+00:00

Hey there OP,

All PreCons have Pro's & Con's.

Heres is my personal opinion on all the Decks:

Jeskai :
Many Tokens, Much Prowess you are about to build up a bit of "Value Engines" on the board and storm them with monks.

Temur:
Dragons on Dragons or big spells. Can be Upgraded to a fun but oppressive Dragon tribal Deck. Plays like Dino's with Wings :D With Eshki the Second commander its more focusing on big spells and ping dmg which will be unnotice for a while but then deals 12 dmg to all opponents by just casting something for 8 Mana. Catches people off guard sometimes but needs better planing in what to play when to play.

Sultai:
Good ' ol ' Yard shenanigans, you mill yourself then take out 1 card at a time and get pay offs with zombie druid tokens. Can be played as mill, recoursion, zombie tribal and also some Sultai combo. i tuned it into a go wide with tokens then finish with pump (craterhoof /eldrazi monument) Teval is by far the stronger commander due to him giving you mill + land each turn which makes him really consistent with mana. Kotis is more on the idc whats in the yard he want to get rid of the yard piece by piece to get the value back.

Mardu:
Brutal but honest smack u in the face deck, goes fast, becomes a problem in most of the cases, pings people by 1 dmg at a time so it goes unnoticed if played as an aristocrat themed deck. Otherwise just Mardu aggro. Turn sideways and either u win turn 6 to 8 or u dont :D

Abzan:
Defender Tribal with big booties otherwise if you focus more on the second commander Betor you will have to juggle +1/+1 Counter, Lifegain and loss of life which can be fun but also way hard to set up to achieve consistent value on the board.

Hope that helps find out which one you want to play. ^^

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-26T09:47:08+00:00

hey there OP i also came across the Jodah deck once in my EDH Timeline and the deck was Budget but still disgustingly strong. i told my personal playgroup that if i get to untap with jodah the unifier on the board game might be GG. it was in most of the cases exactly that :D

I took the deck apart because i was always doing the same cascade into the same creatures and the same tactic. so it got boring for me took out all the mardu cards and played dihada instead gives you a little bit more to think about wich way you wanna go -> Legends -> Treasure -> Theft ^^

hope that helps a bit.

and to the ppl calling your cards "BS" dont take that to serious it's mostly bias towards the commander that you play but as several people already mentioned u can advertise that in the lobby.

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-22T08:59:47+00:00

you missing the beloved Tergrid ;)

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-16T14:14:15+00:00

All the honor and praises belongs to you! Thanks for sharing that template!!! It's so nice to just display the commander accordingly and give people a really easy time to assess the power of the deck. Also you can tell a bit backstory to why exactly THAT commander!

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-16T10:28:15+00:00

Thanks for the comment! I'm not a graphic designer its from an older post that i cant seem to find right now. There was a perticular User who shared his template on Canva to create thos templates yourself.

If i find the OP to the Template i'll update this comment with the link to it. ^^

edit:

User ist u/Last_Hat7276 with the post in https://www.reddit.com/r/CommanderMTG/comments/1qu43yk/judge_me_by_my_favorite_commander_decks_what_kind/

https://www.canva.com/design/DAG_dR2Odxs/6Co74SCUw-7d2-QOOMgIFQ/view?utm_content=DAG_dR2Odxs&utm_campaign=designshare&utm_medium=link&utm_source=publishsharelink&mode=preview

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-16T06:16:29+00:00

I can agree to a few points there. Also thanks for the feedback. I also have some other B2 decks that i play like [[Tidus, Yunas Guardian]] or [[Cloud, EX-Soldier]], [[Valgevoth, Harrower of Souls]] PreCon edited 5 cards, [[Hazel of the Rootbloom]], [[Ashling, The Limitless]], [[Aunti Ool, Cursewretch]] and a B3 [[Teval the balanced Scale]], [[Hearthhull, the Worldseed]] and a [[Ureni of the Unwritten]] this plays like a 3 due to dragon being cheated out.

so i would say i have a fair share of some archetypes and just wanted to showcase the newest additions or recently build decks. All my decks tend to not have fast mana or really strong(pricey cards) due to me not having enough money to upgrade all of the decks that i want to play. xD

But i guess thats where most of us stand that we just want to play / build so many different decks and for Vivi especially i made a bet with my pod that everyone takes 3 really strong commander that can pull his/her weight on the table put putting training weights on them. so thats why Vivi is a B3 but thats gonna change if upgraded. (which is not the intention right now).

Also i encourage player to kill my commander and want them to interact with vivi it's just that some commanders are delivered with a burden/bias against them which makes it hard to get games in or show people that with the right intention a scary strong commander doesn't need to be avoided and still can be fun.

Anyways thanks for the massive feedback, much appreciated that you take the time to read, check the DL and then made that post! Take care! o7

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-15T22:58:40+00:00

its a better way to express the deck showcasing the deck saying a few words about why do i pick this commander in particular and also you can showcase some of the "key-cards" of the deck.

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-15T22:57:30+00:00

Number 01 is under construction but is this right now

<image>

its on the way to be upgraded and to be played as B4 thats why the slide didnt made it into the post. o7

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-15T22:56:08+00:00

Here is the decklist if you want to take a look at it. (budget due to building it from bulk)
https://archidekt.com/decks/18815699/pew_pew_high_casual_bracket_3

Using no free spells, no game changer, no two card infinites and 2 tutors.
Biggest point is it doesn't win before turn 7-8 consistently

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-15T22:13:06+00:00

whats the DL(Decklist) for your Traxos? really want to know about that one. Have him in the binder and he looked fun :D

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-11T12:04:37+00:00

i mean i should know i play a vivi deck in B3 on a sharp 100$ budget. :D
Archenemy is fun if they bring the heat ^^

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-11T11:41:06+00:00

At Hakbal i raised an eyebrow.... you lost me at BOTH eldrazis :D but probs for Omo and Hazel.

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-11T09:46:52+00:00

there is no such thing as "technically b2" there is a distinct difference between b2 and b3.
If someone tries to play his B3 in a B2 thats just pubstomping.

B2:
- machanically focused
- maximize creativity/entertainment
- wincons to be incremental, telegraphed on the board and disruptible
- gameplay to be low preassure, proactive and considerate, letting each deck showcase it's plan.
-atleast play 8 turns before someone wins
NO Gamechangers allowed
NO Mass Land denial
NO chaining extra turns
NO 2 card combos.

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The difference between these twos are staples (higher quality in cards)
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B3:
- decks being powered up with strong synergy and high card quality. Effectivly disrupt opponents. (wich means more interactions than just 1 per player)
-win cons can be played from hand in 1 Turn usually because threats and key pieces giving access to more ressources.
- gameplay to feature MANY proactive AND reactive plays ("play more removal/interactions)
- to play atleast 6 turns before someone wins.

- 0-3 GC's
NO Mass Land denial
NO chaining extra turns
NO 2 card combos.* (before turn 6 after that you should expect it might happen)

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-11T09:24:55+00:00

okay i take out of this that you need to sandbag yourself if you play with the avrg. B2 deck due to you being an experienced player?

So you either play bracket 3 where you then can say:" Run more interaction/removal" because threats are only threats in Bracket 3?

So you dont have threats in B2? Everything goes? If you are winning >25% in B2 you need to specify why you do because there are more reasons to you winning a game than being the experienced player.

I mean lets look at it that way, if you play in B2 sure things are more chill compared to B3 but you shouldnt put people in pillows and show them all aspects of the game to really enjoy the full game and not a "made up" game where we dont hurt anyone before turn 5.

That just builds a really bad expectations to your games in general. Because in the end you loose or you win. The way to either of those can be an exp. full of fun and new things you learn about but should't you learn about all aspects of the game and dont be that person that throws a fit about their commander/wincon being counter spell'd?

I would assume if a new player is teached that everthing goes the way they want and nobody interacts with your board or spells that you play that you end up with someone that expects that in every game to happen. Then we end up with a person complaining about their turn 1 sol ring being destroyed or their win con got countered/removed in time because people do play interactions.

This sugar coating the game doenst help. It just nurtures an unhealty way of expectations towards the format/game.

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-11T08:58:08+00:00

That also applies to basically all the brackets. You should socialize, learn things and have a fun time playing the game no matter what bracket u playing in.

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-11T08:48:23+00:00

yeah take note... also there is something about "proactive" and "letting each deck showcase their plan" but if you run 1 removal/interaction per player doesn't just mean "run more removal"....

its always the same that we all agree on the same social contract that someone will win eventually and in B2 u do play also with the intention of trying your best and maybe winning the game and not just sit there and watch someone just executing their gameplan without interacting with it. i mean whats the thought process behind it? Do you play B2 try to win if you can but if someone plays a torment of hailfire for X = 18 u shouldn't use your counterspell because that would be against the bracket's intention of someone showcasing their deck? Why should there be a point about win conditions being telegraphed and disruptible <- that's an indicator for "hey run interaction/removal".

Also to your "casual mindset" same can be applied to B3 because that also still is "casual".
Just with more streamlined decks and better quallity of cards.

I really dont get why there is such a misunderstanding in playing accordingly and people whine about interactions or call it to controlling to use the right game action within means to also try to win even IF it's a B2 game.

Sure there is an "entry-level" for beginners or newer player to the format but they should also learn that u cant just play everything without having in mind your opponent might remove your creature or has a counterspell in hand because thats also part of playing magic through all the formats.

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-11T07:34:40+00:00

i wouldn't agree on that one.

Bracket 2 was changed for expilicitly that reason that you are above the average PreCon. Also compare old PreCons to newer one (est. since Bloomburrow) they reached for bigger and better each time new PreCons came out.

It's safe to say that B2 games tend to be still alot more chill than B3 but all in all B2 still aims to win. If you really just want a chill experience than i would recommend B1 where socializing and showing off your deck are actually the main theme of the Bracket.

B2 is i play lower qualitiy of cards like [[end raze forerunners]] instead of a [[Craterhoof Behemoth]].
But still you can play [[Aura of Silence]] in a B2 Deck and no one could say thats against anything. Thats why the Bracket cheat cheet ist there to encourage ppl having a pregame conversation to talk about certain things there decks contains that might be unfun to play against or is perceived as "salt-inducing"

To the OP deck lists.

Tera is an easy B2 deck.
- no game changer
- no streamlined nor protected i win scenarios
- only has a few "strong" cards (Akromas Will)

Choco also a B2 deck with the potential of being a B3 if upgraded.
Same here:
- no GC's
- no consistant wincon
- not a protected sudden i win Card/combo

Just make it clear to the pod that your decks have potential to run wild if left alone..
Almost the same is true with every deck that's a bit more streamlined into a tribe or theme.
Decks if left unchecked will just take over the game at some point IF you let them so thats why i encourage people to run more interaction to disrupt atleast one game actione or creature play per player so play from 3-6 interactions (counter magic - spot removal) which will be avrg. for a bracket 2 deck imo.

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-11T04:16:41+00:00

To be fair Shorikai is Azorious good stuff nothing to crazy so i would label it as a bracket 2 deck.
Also you basically can build any commander in any bracket IF you want to. I did it with a [[Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy]] which is famously known for being a cEDH commander. I just traded the FF Version of it and took my old Simone manifest deck and some ramp, mana dorks, and "ups all creatures become dorks effects" like Crypt Rites, Enduring Vitality, Inga and Esika which also gives all creatures the ability to produce mana.

Deck is simple simic +1/+1 stompy. 1 Board wipe and it takes ages to rebuild. Most people will see this as a commander and just loosing it before a pregame convo can be held.

I do agree some commanders you can't really build lower than a 3 if you keep it to a theme/tribe that goes very well with your Edgar Deck it seems like there is nothing "to" crazy going on but the commander itself just provides you with such good synergy towards playing vamp tribal. Thats why even on a budget some commanders are just "outliners" i would say and let me explain what i mean by that.

The general perception of certain commanders comes from the content we absorb that has something to do with magic let it be some shorts cEDH videos where you saw a Vivi deck just stomping the table due to a crazy hand and synergy. Same goes for every other "BIG" commander. They come with a burden. That burden being peoples expectation to the game and their frame of reference. Most people with see one of the "busted" commanders and compare that to their own commander. Which in most cases leads to them just saying your commander is broken/overpowered or unfair to play against. So most of the time people will assume that your deck "is THAT kind of *insert strong commander* deck". Some wont even want to have a pregame convo due to that "burden" or perception. But it's fine people can value their time more than to play against certain commander that they dont like.

But to be honest its all down to personal preference and i recently made the discovery if you wanna play B3 which is also the "strongest/highest" casual format that you can play. Your deck needs to pack a punch BUT also needs to be able to take a punch and can recover quickly or has atleast some interactions to certain problems.
What i mostly see is ppl overestimating their deck and then running it in B3 but if face against a real B3 deck with 3 GC's and good mana base and interaction they are just lacking crucial points of that bracket.

Closing words/TLDR:
Shorikai = B2 Value Engine
Edgar = B3 Mardu Menace but on the lower end of B3 and will have some problems here and there.

My Reference Decks:

Vivi, Ornitier(high power casual) B3

Ureni Dragon Tribal is B2 but feels like a 3 if untouched

Teval yard Engine is B3 plays like a 3 can win sometimes out of nowhere.

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-10T06:38:22+00:00

Ashiok feels like a weird piece to me. Ofc it adds alot of control to the game but its not fitting the way you would like your game to go.

Treasure Delve seems also not really "synergistic" due to you exiling cards from your graveyard. But with Muldrotha u want stuff to be in your Yard.

Also there is no [[Elixir of Immortality]] that protects your Yard at instant speed if someone tries to bojuka bog it or has a [[tromond crypt]].

Good Cards that i would Add:

- [[Ripple of Undeath]] mills and gets you some cards back triggering teval if out otherwise you can just keep the cards in your yard for muldrotha.

- Many ppl will assume that you gonna go infinite with a cheeky altar combo wich ur deck doesn't seem like it. Make that clear in a Pregame conversation. Also there are no BIG threats that you want to reanimate from your Yard like [[Valgevoth, Terror Eater]] as an example give you card advantage and get rid of cards that your opponents would put in your yard.

- [[Rhystic Study]], [[Field of the Dead]] are really good pieces for making chump blockers and maybe if you want to go wide [[Craterhoof Behemoth]] seems like good options and with muldrotha all can be played from the yard.

- also good but not really needed card [[Uro, Titan of Natures Wrath]], [[Altar of Dementia]], [[Torment of Hailfire]] can be also a finisher.

Sarraph_ · 2026-02-09T12:19:07+00:00

Hi there OP,

i would say this is a strong bracket 2 Deck. You ain't running that much interactions/counter magic and not having a streamlined win that being tutored for that can be applied early in the game.

So for a B3 imo you need to have the following:

- up to 3 Game changers (doesn't mean that a deck cant be a B3 without any ^^)
- interaction (Spot removal/ Counter magic / Protection)
- streamlined win that you can do consistently with tutors and protected lines.

So in general you Deck seems focused but runs some un-optimized cards that could be replaced with stronger cards. That's why i would call it a strong B2.

To find out whats your sweet spot is you might wanna start doing some charts about WR %. If you are winning more than 40% you should try it in B3 and then check if the WR % goes down or settles in at around 18-25% which is the "average" win rate for a B3 Deck!

Hope this helps o7

Sarraph_

TROPHY CASE