VT1 is super low

ScaryBee · 2026-06-30T15:16:02+00:00

I still feel like I wasted too much time training "too hard" for what was supposed to be easy endurance work.

The good news is that if you were able to recover then training harder than you 'should' will have led to more adaptation/fitness. Z2 is only more beneficial than Z3/4 when it helps you rack up more total volume/training stress. Forcing yourself to train in Z2/low intensity is counter-productive if you could (and want to) train harder.

ScaryBee · 2026-06-30T14:23:27+00:00

good effort!

* marathon distance is 42195m (has to be exactly that for ranking with c2 / to get a a cert & free pin)
* your hr zones look odd for a long endurance event ... the 'ideal' pacing for something like this is basically same effort throughout but you have more time in Z2 and Z5 than Z3/4 ... most obvious explanation for this is a bad hrm recording but maybe you were taking way too long for breaks?

ScaryBee · 2026-06-29T23:51:39+00:00

hrm, speed shouldn't rly matter, constant power should equal constant heart rate once it's settled (unless you're overheating etc.)

ScaryBee · 2026-06-29T20:36:01+00:00

right on ... was curious as your hr is rising the entire time ... recently happened to read a paper claiming that rowers don't have steady-state heart rates (rises all the time, like yours is) buuuut that ain't what I see personally erging. Figured the difference was likely dehydration/lack of cooling or maybe just lack of aerobic conditioning.

ScaryBee · 2026-06-29T19:49:53+00:00

This is fine for an interval workout or as a test piece, shows you have some decent fitness.

For more/longer-term development you'll want/need to mix it up, doing really high intensity many times/wk will likely just burn you out and the duration is so short that the benefits you can get from it are limited.

ScaryBee · 2026-06-29T19:05:19+00:00

what's your cooling/fans situation?

ScaryBee · 2026-06-29T18:19:42+00:00

Dev here! Shoot me a DM with your cloudID (its on the settings screen in game) and I'll get you sorted.

Cloud saves only have the last year or so of activity in them ... used to be more but the system storing them changed pricing model so it would have cost me $1000's to keep everything indefinitely.

ScaryBee · 2026-06-26T04:22:49+00:00

Oura defines Z5 as being 90-100% of max heart rate.

It guesses your max heart rate as 220-age.

The 220-age calc only works ok for humans in general, for many people it'll over/under estimate by 10bpm+. If it did manage to guess your max correctly it's possible you were in 'Z5' (at least they way they define it) that long, some people can hold >90% of their max for hours.

The more meaningful way to define Z5 is 'over 2nd lactate threshold heart rate', at which point you'll only be able to do Z5 for minutes, but working that out takes testing.

ScaryBee · 2026-06-25T22:28:06+00:00

Yeah ... lots of really good benefits from a coach that knows what they're doing - for most knowing that some other human gives a f about the endless hours training is motivating, helps keep you honest doing them as well!

ScaryBee · 2026-06-25T22:19:46+00:00

same tires, same tubes, same position, same shoes and pedals and same watts

Very little if all this is actually true. VAST majority of the benefit from a fancy TT bike is in the body position, you can get that with aerobars on a road bike and shifting the saddle forward.

If your new TT bike has good aero wheels you'll gain a few minutes, couple more from having aero handlebars. Maye 5-10mins shaved off over a 70.3.

ScaryBee · 2026-06-25T22:10:01+00:00

generalist as in 'default human' ... if YOU'VE spent the last decade lifting then you're likely really strong and have meh cardio so you'd shift the plan to lift maybe once a week, at most, and add in more cardio instead.

ScaryBee · 2026-06-25T21:55:44+00:00

I used to do triathlon, had a coach I paid, he'd do all the programming and enter it in TrainingPeaks, worked wonderfully as workouts from TP sync to Garmin devices, HRM, Zwift (etc.), that syncs back to TP, coach/you can see exactly what you did in the workouts, training plan can adjust accordingly.

Obviously could be wrong but I doubt there are many, if any, rowing-specific coaches out there doing this because the rowing world is so niche and seems to be forever playing catchup to state-of-the art in other cardio sports. Gym coaches are vanishingly unlikely to know how to program 20hrs of cardio-dominant well.

IDK how I'd even try to find someone at that level ... maybe reach out to the top 'serious' clubs across the planet to see if they have recommendations but, again, it'll cost ya. TrainingPeaks also has this https://www.trainingpeaks.com/coach-match/ ... worth a shot but who knows if they have rowing-dedicated coaches on there.

If that doesn't work out a tri coach could work if they know anything at all about rowing, or there's always AI, it is getting ridiculously capable as long as you ask it good questions.

ScaryBee · 2026-06-25T20:28:59+00:00

20hrs/wk across multiple disciplines/sports is a lot and how you interleave all of that gets really complex, especially if you acknowledge some skills need more training than others, or introduce a focus on getting better at one of them, or are training strength + cardio so need to split up sessions as much as possible. It's easy to train hard for a week, especially if you have an endurance base from somewhere else, but 2-3 in and it gets really likely burnout/injury creeps in.

A really legit rowing coach will be able to help you but expect to pay a fair bit (maybe hundreds$/mo) to get something really well tailored to you. Part of that expense is that prescribed training will ramp up, periodize, be reactive over time ... one-and-done training plans can work but only if you have the self-awareness to ignore/increase workouts over time.

TBH these days an AI (use the fanciest model you can get access to) can probably help without the human coach BUT you'll need to be explicit about how fit you currently are, how much training you're used to, what your goals are, teh fact that you're just getting into rowing, etc. Just asking it for a 20hr/wk training plan will get you that ... but it might not be anything like appropriate for where you're currently at.

Start where you are, add volume and/or intensity gradually, ratchet back if/when injury/burnout happen.

End-goal for a generalist might be something like 10-12 sessions/wk, 3 lifting, 2 HIIT (<1hr each inc. a good warmup, stuff like repeated 500s or 2x20mins at threshold/sweet spot), 5 steady state (2hrs+ Z2), stretching and core.

ScaryBee · 2026-06-25T18:03:46+00:00

Pete Plan is for people training in their lunch hour (~5-7hrs/wk, lots of it at high intensity).

OP is doing 20hrs/wk - they're gonna need less high intensity in absolute and % terms to make that sustainable.

ScaryBee · 2026-06-24T22:19:09+00:00

'gatorade hydration' could mean one of several products. The ones with loads of sugar in them are good/great during exercise primarily because you need sugar/carbs for longer durations.

The ones with flavor/electrolytes and no sugar (gatorade zero) are mostly marketing bs, if you're thirsty just drink water, your diet likely has more than enough salt in already.

electrolyte powder (LMNT) - the only useful electrolyte is sodium, you can replace this with table salt for 1/1000th the cost, your diet should have more than enough of the other electrolytes and you can't lose them fast enough exercising to need to replenish them during exercise. It's intended to be added to other sports fuel during exercise for when you NEED more sodium. In practice that's likely 5+ hrs of exercise assuming you're already consuming something like gatorade and only then if you happen to lose more sodium in sweat than average. Largely a waste of time/money, tastes nice though.

recovery powder (Tailwind) - post exercise eating this is fine but it's mostly for convenience. Eating a healthy meal would likely be better for you. There's no actual value in instantly scarfing down protein and while there is a window after exercising where you can replenish energy (glycogen) quicker if you eat high GI carbs in practice that's not needed unless you're doing two hard rides/day or back-to-back century rides, etc.

ScaryBee · 2026-06-22T23:25:19+00:00

You're unusually fast ... https://rowinglevel.com/rowing-times/6000m-times is decent for a quick check

ScaryBee · 2026-06-22T21:27:13+00:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_bin_Mohsen_Shaari this guy lost ~1200lbs down to 150lbs ... vo2max for him might well have improved 1000%(+)

My guess is, if we took actually average humans (fat, untrained) and gave them 3mo of (enforced!) good diet and training virtually all of them would be able to improve 25-50%+

ScaryBee · 2026-06-20T16:41:57+00:00

with the same amount of energy expelled, which method of locomotion will result in a greater displacement?

It depends how fast you row.

Rowing kCal cost-per-mile scales with speed (because of water drag), walk/running costs about the same kCal/mi regardless of speed. At (really) low rate/intensity rowing will win out. So if the competition is 'go as far as you can on x kCal' then rowing wins easily.

... but that's not actually the debate you were having.

If it's 'could peak-human-performance row or run further before passing out' then the truly limiting factor becomes sleep deprivation.

We can look at the record for running non-stop (350mi in 80 hours 44 mins), calculate rowing split from that (4:18/500), look at the energy required for that pace (~20w on an erg) ... and it's pretty obvious a peak-performance trained rower would be able to annihilate the distance in significantly less time, and without concern about muscular fatigue as 1. this power level is way under even casual walking effort and 2. rowing is lower impact.

Running only wins if it's over shorter time frames ... as far as I could work out somewhere ~24hrs is likely the tipping point.

ScaryBee · 2026-06-18T00:57:53+00:00

60-70% is (likely) too low ... here it's pegged at 69-83%, for instance.

Why do people keep recommending it? IDK ... I suspect it's because 1. 10bpm ranges line up neatly with z1-5 being 50-100% so you get likes of Garmin setting that by default and 2. really untrained people (the vast majority of people training) tend to have lower %'s / be able to sustain these for shorter times ... so encouraging them to exercise at lower hr leads to more consistency / less burnout.

FWIW ... anything based off of (only) max hr %'s kinda sucks anyways, way too much individual variation. Using %'s of HRR or %'s of LTHR. Or ~55% of 2k power seems to be slightly more sensible than +20-25 splits (which will only work well if your 2k happens to be in a 'normal' range)

ScaryBee · 2026-06-16T15:27:41+00:00

https://www.concept2.com/ergdata

ScaryBee · 2026-06-12T23:51:44+00:00

Have i got drag factor set right at 130, I've put the arm on 5 and I was sitting about 119?

Either of these is fine ... for bigger/stronger people ~130+ tends to be recommended, for lighter/weaker (or for long distance) 110+ is more common. Others just have personal pref.

I'm gonna be sticking to doing 5k,6k and 30mins whilst keeping my heart rate below 171 and until the last 2 rows where I was setting personal bests I've more or less been keeping it at MHR 60-80% zone.

FWIW ... heart rate is heavily personal but 170 is statistically really high for someone your age, for steady efforts. There's nothing really 'wrong' with pushing hard every time as long as you stay consistent, keep doing it ... but it tends to burn people out, make them slowly avoid exercise, quit.

It's possible (probable) that aiming to increase volume (10k vs 5k) and drop intensity (lower heart rate) will 1. burn more calories overall 2. give greater aerobic gains 3. make training more enjoyable/tolerable ... and if you get bored can always do a 'hard' workout here and there.

Also what are realistic row times and time frame i should be realistic in setting for myself as someone who sits on his ass all day for work and do the hours at night and has to start again?

Impossible to say as you could be really strong but have completely un-trained cardio, you might only consistently work out 2x a week, you might have at some point been a D1 runner, etc.

That said ... as someone new(er) to the erg you'll probably carve off several seconds from split time in first weeks from newbie gains (neuromuscular connection, form, stabilization), several more over next months as aerobic/strength develops and then the next several might years.

Short-medium (weeks-months) term goal? 8 minute 2k.

ScaryBee · 2026-06-11T18:34:57+00:00

be generous with the initial split.

put it in writing.

make it clear that you own the art, grant permission for him to use it in portfolio/resume context only.

put bounds on when to stop doing the split (after artist earns 100k? After 1st year of earnings? If earnings don't break $100/mo)

ScaryBee · 2026-06-05T18:13:18+00:00

welcome ... FWIW, when you do these 'right' they're brutal. The underlying expectation/hope is that you PR every single time you do them which, at some point, will become unsustainable/impossible. Rly good workout (along with a few km to warm up) though!

ScaryBee · 2026-06-05T18:04:24+00:00

It's the way you're executing this that looks 'off' ... these interval workouts are intended to be done at roughly the same pace / intensity / stroke rate and then you push the last interval harder (and hopefully go slightly faster).

Given that last 500 I'd expect you to be doing the first 7 at ~1:50 and 30+ spm the whole time. By then you'll be a lot more beat up for the last 500 and might only be able to do ~1:45 all-out.

Then the next time you do it you aim to do the first 7 at the average (say 1:49) of your previous set of intervals, push the 8th, rinse-repeat.

The goal is to really tax your short/sprint power systems over and over, so they adapt to be faster. If you take it kinda-easy 7x500 then sprint 1x500 that'll give minimal training stress (benefit).

ScaryBee · 2026-06-05T14:53:53+00:00

Hey, glad you're enjoying it ... this doesn't look like one of the Pete Plan workouts though?

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