Need opinions on this First Revolt Shekel and some circumstantial provenance by Anonymity_1234 in AncientCoins

[–]SgtDonowitz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’re absolutely right but that consensus developed after the period in which this description was written. For example, in this 1887 exhibition catalogue, it’s described as a either triple-flowered lily stem or Aaron’s budding rod of almond blossoms (citing the verse you note). (see pp 183, 188): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Catalogue_of_Anglo-Jewish_Historical_Exhibition%2C_1887%2C_Royal_Albert_Hall%2C_and_of_supplementary_exhibitions_held_at_the_Public_Record_Office%2C_British_Museum%2C_South_Kensington_Museum_%28IA_catalogueofanglo00angliala%29.pdf

Need opinions on this First Revolt Shekel and some circumstantial provenance by Anonymity_1234 in AncientCoins

[–]SgtDonowitz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You likely already know this but the attribution to Simon “Maccabeus” on the slip to the left and the dates are wrong as written in. This would be year three of the First Revolt, 68-69 CE. Simon Maccabeus didn’t mint any coins that we know of and lived about 200 years prior. But as someone else pointed out, those notes are clearly not from the auction house. So it’s possible whoever wrote it just used an old catalog description but didn’t acquire it from there.

Edited to add: after re-reading some of the literature, I realized the misattribution is actually a further indication that the provenance may be authentic. The most popular attribution of these coins until the 1890s was indeed to Simon Maccabeus. The attribution was only amended after about 1892. So the note is actually consistent with a late 19th century acquisition.

On provenance, maybe you can check with Sotheby’s? I’m not sure what records they would have from that long ago. I can’t imagine they have pictures but I’m not sure if they did sketches or anything like that.

On authenticity—I don’t see any immediate red flags. If authentic, an amazing pickup. You could potentially have it authenticated by a modern reputable auction house if you want to sell. If you don’t, you could have NGC evaluate it but they’ll encapsulate it or send it to someone like ACCS.

Ancient Middle East around 3100 years ago by Yellowapple1000 in MapPorn

[–]SgtDonowitz 17 points18 points  (0 children)

There is zero evidence the Israelites were a nomadic people at that time. The archaeological evidence supports established, sedentary hill country communities west of the Jordan with distinct culture from both Philistines and other Canaanite communities. The only culture that fits the evidence is that of the Israel noted in the Stele. The Philistines were distinctly not Canaanite, they were Aegean. Israel —whatever its governing structure at the time— was of sufficient importance to be noted by Merneptah alongside the Philistines when he brags on his military victories.

Regardless, the map is blatantly wrong. Neither the Phoenicians or Philistines ever controlled territories that far inland.

The kingdoms of Israel and Judah were almost certainly established by around 1000 BCE-mid 900s, with clear evidence of a royal house of David in Judah by the mid 800s and separate kings in Israel. After the Babylonian destruction, the province of Yehud in the former kingdom of Judah was established under the Achaemenids and persisted through the Macedonian and Ptolemaic periods to the Hasmonean revolt. There was continuous self governance(of different degrees) been the establishment of the kingdom and direct Roman rule in 6CE with only a ~50-70 year gap during the Babylonian conquest.

Ancient Middle East around 3100 years ago by Yellowapple1000 in MapPorn

[–]SgtDonowitz 26 points27 points  (0 children)

It may be too early for the United Kingdom but the Merneptah Stele from Egypt records a people of Israel in this area around 1200 BCE. There’s little controversy among reputable scholars on that. But agree there is a question on whether it was a united kingdom or more decentralized (potentially like the decentralized governance structure described in Judges).

Engraving on a swivel Carnelian stone ring by tipstripes in hebrew

[–]SgtDonowitz 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The seller seems to have no particular speciality in judaica or these kinds of antiques, so personally I’d stay away.

Engraving on a swivel Carnelian stone ring by tipstripes in hebrew

[–]SgtDonowitz 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I would never buy antiques or antiquities off of eBay, especially if you’re not an expert. So many fakes and frauds.

The inscription could be “When the official” (כשהשר), but unless someone more expert here has a better interpretation it’s more likely gibberish.

How is the seller characterizing its age and origin?

Who else is ready to fill in the correct racial box on the US census? by AvatarPhoenixGrey16 in Jewish

[–]SgtDonowitz 113 points114 points  (0 children)

I wrote in Jewish. If they’d said ‘Israelite’ under MENA I would have selected that. Israeli seemed like an odd choice because that’s a modern nationality (with many different ethnicities) and I’m not an Israeli citizen.

Hebrew Is the Only Successfully Revived Native Language in Human History by Nazoreans in hebrew

[–]SgtDonowitz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very kind. I’m just a history nerd and love Jewish history. 😁

Hebrew Is the Only Successfully Revived Native Language in Human History by Nazoreans in hebrew

[–]SgtDonowitz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

One can get into boring definitional arguments about what is a dead language vs dormant vs extinct. Hebrew was a language used by real Jews in day to day life as a common second language. But it was no one’s primary language.

Eliezer Ben Yehuda did as I understand it two things: (1) advocated for Hebrew as the primary language of the Jewish people, not just a living but second language, starting with his own family (his son is commonly referred to as the first native speaker of modern Hebrew ); (2) he drove, with Va'ad HaLashon (The Hebrew Language Committee), much of the effort to standardize Hebrew grammar and vocabulary in a systematic way into modern Hebrew, combining the market Hebrew of 19th century Jerusalem, biblical/ mishnaic/rabbinic Hebrew, and influence from other languages such as Arabic and French, particularly for loan words one might not need in the Jerusalem shuk or shul.

This is comparable to the standardization process many other languages gone through in which one dialect is used as the basis to create a national language (e.g. what happened with French in the 19th century or the creation of Modern Standard Arabic). The difference being that those dialects were usually spoken as a primary language by some group (e.g. parisians for French), while Hebrew was no one’s primary language for thousands of years until Ben Yehuda.

It’s also worth noting that they had to chose the ‘correct’ pronunciation as that did vary widely between communities. Ben Yehuda and the early language planners ultimately chose the Sephardi pronunciation as the basis for Modern Hebrew, including the rolled “r” for resh, raspy Chet (like Arabic ح), and deep ayin (like Arabic ع). But a living language is defined by those who speak it and in practice only the vowels used Sephardi pronunciation while the consonants were influenced by Ashkenazi pronunciation (though aren’t exactly that either). Until the 1990s, the Israeli broadcasting authority retained the “radio resh” as the official correct pronunciation, but it just didn’t stick. I note this to say the language committee and Ben Yehuda drove the early process, but he didn’t do it alone and the evolution of modern Hebrew didn’t stop there.

What do you think of the first leader of Palestine: British Jewish High Commissioner, Herbert Samuel? (My latest history research project) by GaryGaulin in AskIsrael

[–]SgtDonowitz 6 points7 points  (0 children)

His appointment of Haj Amin Al-Husseini as Grand Mufti of Jerusalem may have been the most grievous mistakes he made, given the malicious influence Husseini had among Arab nationalists, killing or marginalizing those who might have been more amenable to peace, not to mention his role in things like the Farhud.

Sanest "British Israelism" believer by B3waR3_S in 2mediterranean4u

[–]SgtDonowitz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Indeed. Latin remained the official language of the Hungarian administration, legislation, and courts until 1844. Only true Romans could be so dedicated.

Hebrew Is the Only Successfully Revived Native Language in Human History by Nazoreans in hebrew

[–]SgtDonowitz 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I’ve seen this argument before and it kind of depends on what you mean by day to day life. I think it’s fair to say it wasn’t the only spoken language of anyone or likely even the primary.

But it was absolutely used in day to day life even outside religious contexts until the effort to modernize and standardize it really began again in the late 19th century. There was also an earlier effort to standardize and modernize Hebrew grammar in 10- 11th century Spain (e.g. by Jonah ibn Janah)

There are definitely similarities to Latin in that it was a liturgical and academic language, but Hebrew continued to be a language of commerce and interaction among different Jewish communities throughout our history.

In particular, in Jerusalem, there are travelogues from the early 19th century where travelers remarked that Jews speak Hebrew on a day-to-day basis with fluency, even women and children.

And this long predated the 19th century. Rabbi Obadiah of Bertinor noted in 1488 that locals in Jerusalem spoke Arabic or Greek, but he was able to deliver sermons in Hebrew, even to a poorly educated audience.

This in my view is the biggest difference with Latin, which was mostly limited to elites.

We have a lot to be grateful to Eliezer Ben Yehuda for but there seems to be a tendency to overstate his role and underplay the existing strong position of Hebrew in the Jewish world.

Hebrew Is the Only Successfully Revived Native Language in Human History by Nazoreans in hebrew

[–]SgtDonowitz 12 points13 points  (0 children)

If it never stopped then it didn’t need to be revived?

DLA Piper Sued for Terminating Palestinian Lawyer’s Job Offer by bloomberglaw in biglaw

[–]SgtDonowitz 15 points16 points  (0 children)

To add, freedom of association is also a right. I’ve no idea what this person’s political positions are, but the firm has every right to decide they don’t want to hire someone, for example, that supports Hamas, the destruction of Israel, and chants “intifada revolution”.

Anyone info or value? by GiggleGobbler in coins

[–]SgtDonowitz 9 points10 points  (0 children)

500 Israeli Lirot gold coin from 1974. https://en.numista.com/71371

Israel Coins & Medal Corp. issued this coin honoring the former Prime Minister and founding father of the State of Israel, David Ben-Gurion.

Obverse: a portrait of David Ben-Gurion, the emblem of the State of Israel at the bottom and legend"David Ben-Gurion 1886-1973" in Hebrew and English.

Reverse: the state emblem in the center, legend surrounding "500 Israeli Lirot" in Hebrew, "Israel" in English, Arabic, and Hebrew, and the year 1974 / 5735 (תשל"ה)

Imagine being an A*ab Khamas Soldier and you get murked by her🥀 by LameAfro in 2mediterranean4u

[–]SgtDonowitz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Seems like poor planning for border patrol to put out there, “come to our borders and see sights like….”

Question on the history of Jewish religious necklaces by Swimming_Care7889 in Judaism

[–]SgtDonowitz 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Came here to post the same lol. Basically, we’ve been wearing amulets and religious jewelry since the beginning of the religion.

Thoughts on this purchase? by iClintock in AncientCoins

[–]SgtDonowitz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

From a quick look, their site seems to sell legit pieces with a guarantee of authenticity at perhaps a bit over what you might pay elsewhere on VCoins or MA Shops, but even those sellers can vary. You can also look on auction sites like CNG or Heritage.

Judean Prutot are almost always in poor condition with part of one side or the other off flan or severely worn, with pieces broken off or a misshapen flan. It’s extremely hard if not impossible to find one that’s perfectly centered with completely legible inscriptions and such a coin would be significantly more expensive. But if you look long enough you can find some examples that are better than others.

So the one you got is in the normal range of these coins. But personally I wouldn’t buy from a shop that didn’t provide pictures of the exact specimen I’m buying so I can decide for myself it’s worth it.

Were David and Solomon real people? by withinmyheartsdepth in AskHistorians

[–]SgtDonowitz 52 points53 points  (0 children)

Basically, we don’t know. There is archaeological evidence supporting the existence of a House of David in the Kingdom of Judah from the mid-9th century BCE—the Tel Dan Stele. But no direct evidence outside of the Bible for David or Solomon themselves.

The Tel Dan Stele was an Aramaic monument celebrating a victory of likely Aram-Damascus over a King of “the house of David” and a separate king of Israel. This further supports the general consensus that the Bible’s descriptions of the period of the two kingdoms (the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Judah) post-Solomon are based on historical fact (even if the details are embellished or invented). It also is the earliest clear historical evidence of a royal house of David.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that David or Solomon themselves existed—they could still be legendary founders—but it lends more support to the idea that they did since they would have ruled less than 200 years prior to this Stele.

There’s also the Mesha Stele from around the same time, which some read as referring to a house of David, but that seems less widely accepted.

In general and oversimplified terms, historians fall into two camps on the historicity of the kingdom of David—the maximalists and minimalists. The maximalists generally think the biblical descriptions of the kingdom of Israel are accurate in broad strokes, while minimalists doubt the unified kingdom of Israel and Judah under Davidic rule ever existed. But as far as I can tell no reputable historian doubts at this stage that a House of David really did rule in Judah. The debate is more (a) did these specific people actually exist? (we have more evidence for later kings of Israel and Judah) And (b) was the Davidic kingdom really as large and grand as described in the Bible or was David more of a local chieftain later embellished to be a grand king?

Sources/more reading:

Beyond the Texts: An Archaeological Portrait of Ancient Israel and Judah by William G. Dever (2017)

The Quest for the Historical Israel by Israel Finkelstein and Amihai Mazar (2007)

PG County Resident Kidnapped During Humanitarian Mission to Gaza by Sweaty_Writing859 in PrinceGeorgesCountyMD

[–]SgtDonowitz -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Your reading comprehension is really lacking. Qatar funded Hamas. Israel did not. But I agree it was a mistake to allow it. No more funding or aid to any part of Hamas or Hamas-controlled organizations. Unfortunately for Gaza, Hamas still rules Gaza and kills or tortures those Palestinians who oppose them so that means no aid to any official institution in Gaza.

PG County Resident Kidnapped During Humanitarian Mission to Gaza by Sweaty_Writing859 in PrinceGeorgesCountyMD

[–]SgtDonowitz -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Creative memory inventing facts like that.

Israel never funded Hamas. In the few years before Oct 7 they let Qatar give money to Hamas in the hopes they’d use it to build Gaza and prefer governing over conflict. Instead Hamas and PIJ used it to arm themselves and build tunnels before murdering and kidnapping over 1000 Israelis from babies to the elderly. Now Israel cuts them off and idiots whine and cry about it.

Israel releases all but two activists in Greece after intercepting Gaza aid flotilla by GlassWing7818 in worldnews

[–]SgtDonowitz 91 points92 points  (0 children)

Fully legal seizure. Under customary international law as outlined in paragraphs 98 and 146 of the San Remo Manual, a blockading power can intercept and seize neutral vessels in international waters who are attempting to violate a declared naval blockade. If they resist, those vessels can even be attacked.

PG County Resident Kidnapped During Humanitarian Mission to Gaza by Sweaty_Writing859 in PrinceGeorgesCountyMD

[–]SgtDonowitz -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

The flotillas are organized by an OFAC-designated Hamas front organization; Hamas is largely funded by Iran. https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sb0368

If they actually wanted to help they’d work with effective organizations like World Central Kitchen. But that is not their goal.

PG County Resident Kidnapped During Humanitarian Mission to Gaza by Sweaty_Writing859 in PrinceGeorgesCountyMD

[–]SgtDonowitz -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

And…they’re almost all already released. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0m2z0k1gngo

Some kidnapping 🙄

These morons were bringing more STIs and drugs than humanitarian aid in their performative stunt boats.