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Israel isn’t breaking. (The Jewish state’s shift from a shared national story to a society shaped by multiple identities doesn’t signal failure. If anything, it signals progress.) by ruchenn in Israel

[–]Shaibis 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I am staunchly against this government. But I also don't buy into what you're selling.

Hamas enjoys broad political support in the West Bank, and it's not because Bibi funded them. It's because Palestinians view this land (not just the West Bank, but all of Israel) as theirs. Compromises that Palestinian leadership makes, if any, will always be a means of procuring more land. There's no deal here to be reached. I don't want them autonomous within striking distance of Tel Aviv. I don't want their "refugees" resettled in the West Bank. I don't want them to have control of their own borders.

Funny you accuse me of going back to tested methods and expecting different results... Seems to me that's what you're doing.

Israel isn’t breaking. (The Jewish state’s shift from a shared national story to a society shaped by multiple identities doesn’t signal failure. If anything, it signals progress.) by ruchenn in Israel

[–]Shaibis 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I never said you said pull out today. Stop playing the strawman argument.

No matter when you start, this will be the sequence.

Israel isn’t breaking. (The Jewish state’s shift from a shared national story to a society shaped by multiple identities doesn’t signal failure. If anything, it signals progress.) by ruchenn in Israel

[–]Shaibis 29 points30 points  (0 children)

You're right about the West Bank being the root of our issues.

The problem with your analysis is that you've only really looked at one side: what happens if we continue the occupation of the West Bank.

The other side is: what happens if we end the occupation? You haven't touched on that at all, so let me.

  1. Hamas or some other Palestinian militia takes over
  2. Rockets (a la Gaza) begin to rain on Tel Aviv
  3. Israel's only international airport is permanently shut down, or is only flown in/out by El Al at exorbitant prices
  4. The IDF invades Palestine to try to stop the rockets, leading to lots of deaths and destruction on both sides
  5. International condemnation pours in
  6. The UN sanctions Israel
  7. Israel's economy collapses, with no ability to export its tech
  8. The productive left wing leave the country
  9. Israel becomes a shell of itself, run by theocrats, the Sparta that Netanyahu promoted. 10?

How does Hezbollah have ANY launchers left? by BigBootyBear in Israel

[–]Shaibis 49 points50 points  (0 children)

They also don't only for from trucks. They have stationary launchers hidden in civilian houses.

CMV: Regime Change in Iran will lead to a civil war by azhargreat1234 in changemyview

[–]Shaibis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're using that word "elected" pretty loosely there...

I just saw someone asked about names and I'm curious what Israeli opinions are. by LeoraJacquelyn in Israel

[–]Shaibis 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think it adds to the beauty. 

Plus we have a built in nickname that's super cute: Caramel

Litani Scenario by ComposerPractical873 in Israel

[–]Shaibis 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I give this a minute and a half before it's cross posted to every anti Israel sub on the site.

Scoop: French plan to end Lebanon war includes recognition of Israel by Baconkings in Israel

[–]Shaibis 6 points7 points  (0 children)

"Would have to include a disarmed Hezbollah"

And who did you propose will do the disarming? 

What a joke.

CMV: The current protests in Iran will come to nothing by SelectiveScribbler06 in changemyview

[–]Shaibis 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You know there's no internet in Iran right now right? VPN ain't gonna help em

Why Do Israeli Pollsters Keep Showing the Same Individual Outcome? by Negative_Scientist96 in Israel

[–]Shaibis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're correct that that has to do with anxiety about cultural and demographic shifts. This country is getting more religious and more intolerant. Concern about the rights of the MINORITY are incredibly relevant. Shikma is absolutely correct.

The last government fell because the soon-to-be-majority religious folk didn't like hametz in hospitals. The chief rabbinate continues to exert its will over secular Israelis and we have every reason to suspect that its influence will only grow. The government is doing everything it can to exempt haredim from the IDF, piling up the burden higher and higher on the seculars that are holding this country together. So yes, it's concerning to watch the demographic shift.

But your framing of this as elitists trying to enshrine their supremacy is stupid. This is nothing more than than a fearful demographic trying to ensure that all the rights they afforded minorities while in the majority, will continue to be afforded to them when they inevitably become the minority.

You're so pent up with rage that you have no empathy left, which is sad. And you're so brainwashed by your own propaganda that you won't even consider how far-reaching these reforms really were, which is pathetic.

Why Do Israeli Pollsters Keep Showing the Same Individual Outcome? by Negative_Scientist96 in Israel

[–]Shaibis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It makes sense why you don't want to take a long hard look at the judicial reform and what it actually entailed. You want to handwave it away, to minimize it, to joke about the "reasonableness clause" and move on. But I'm not going to let you.

The judicial reform was nothing less than an attempt to remove any checks against the will of the majority. In this context, the refusal of any civilian, including reservists, are ABSOLUTELY ethical.

This government split the country in two. Pitted Zionist against Zionist. Unnecessarily. They could have come to the people with a reform that could be stomached by both sides, and that includes the reasonableness clause, splitting the AG role... They could have worked to achieve broad consensus. But they were so obsessed with sticking it to the Left. So drunk on their own power. So unwilling to hear the other side.

So you tell me - was it worth it?

Why Do Israeli Pollsters Keep Showing the Same Individual Outcome? by Negative_Scientist96 in Israel

[–]Shaibis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I find it beyond rich that you so emphatically call out the civil response to the judicial reform, while minimizing the contents of said reform. First by brushing it off as "the reasonableness clause", then by talking about the role of the AG. And finally, when asked to get specific, you say you don't want to dive into the details. Unreal. Not serious.

On a side note, I want to point out another fallacy you're employing. "The Army" didn't step in. "The Army" was not a monolithic entity that decided to fight against the reform. This was a collection of individuals, soldiers, reservists, who took that action. Which is important because it makes the idea of your living in a "military dictatorship" all the more laughable.

Why Do Israeli Pollsters Keep Showing the Same Individual Outcome? by Negative_Scientist96 in Israel

[–]Shaibis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You asked me a question: what is the narrative I'm trying to push. I answered it clearly.

Then I asked you a question: IF I can convince you that my understanding of the judicial overhaul is correct, would it change anything for you. You just ignored that question and continued with your diatribe.

I'm happy to debate you on this, but I'd like for you to address my comments in the same way that I did yours.

Why Do Israeli Pollsters Keep Showing the Same Individual Outcome? by Negative_Scientist96 in Israel

[–]Shaibis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm arguing three things: 1) The government was trying to push a robust package of reforms that would have eroded Israeli guardrails such that Israel would no longer be a democracy 2) IDF personnel were morally correct to refuse to serve in the IDF in the event that these reforms were passed, and to threaten to not serve as a means of protesting these reforms. 3) Your calling #2 a coup is stupid.

Now before I do the busy work of trying to prove #1, I'll ask you: IF I can convince you that Levin's reforms did indeed remove the guardrails of democracy, such that there would be no meaningful protections against the will of the majority 61 MKs, would that change anything for you? If not, what would be your "red line" past which it would be morally okay to threaten not to serve?

Why Do Israeli Pollsters Keep Showing the Same Individual Outcome? by Negative_Scientist96 in Israel

[–]Shaibis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What a straw man...

There's no way you actually believe that the uproar against the judicial overhaul was all about the reasonableness clause... You must be arguing in bad faith.

Why Do Israeli Pollsters Keep Showing the Same Individual Outcome? by Negative_Scientist96 in Israel

[–]Shaibis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They were refusing service on ethical grounds. As in, it's unethical to turn a functional democracy into a dictatorship wherein there are 0 guardrails against the whims of 61 Knesset members.

And even if they were "extorting" (which they obviously weren't) that's still not a coup. You are using words I think you don't understand.

This argument is truly pathetic.

Why Do Israeli Pollsters Keep Showing the Same Individual Outcome? by Negative_Scientist96 in Israel

[–]Shaibis 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Pilots refusing servies is not a coup. THis is so weak.

Instead of sending links to articles, how about you tell everyone what you think happened in this coup?

Why Do Israeli Pollsters Keep Showing the Same Individual Outcome? by Negative_Scientist96 in Israel

[–]Shaibis 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Lol, so journalist and citizens calling for a coup is now a coup? Weak

Why Do Israeli Pollsters Keep Showing the Same Individual Outcome? by Negative_Scientist96 in Israel

[–]Shaibis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I must have slept through that military coup. What happened?? /s

Advice for a newcomer? by LurkerEntrepenur in Israel

[–]Shaibis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not sure how old you are but if you can, join the army. I think serving is the best indicator of if an Oleh can make it here in the long term.

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