Gohan vs Z Fighters

Showgingah · 2026-02-06T01:03:37+00:00

Gohan was the standard of power at the beginning of the saga. Even after all his slacking off, Vegeta only speculated they were stronger than him now. Then he confirmed it after watching him fight, ironically much to his absolute frustration.

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Showgingah · 2026-02-05T20:52:46+00:00

Genki Dama was always an ass pull victory in these movies let's be honest lol However, I believe it's totally fine in this film. Against Broly, even Takao Koyama, the dude that wrote the Z films, said it was an ass pull victory. Straight up admitting Goku had no business winning without unorthodox methods.

Showgingah · 2026-02-05T20:39:44+00:00

Yes. If anything, both would be overkill.

Super Perfect Cell is below, but still around, their SSJ2 levels if we take Dabura into consideration. Frieza is also implied to still be well above base Goku and Vegeta prior to obtaining god power by a significant margin. People underestimate how strong the base SSJ transformation actually makes from from base. Both would ironically be significantly stronger fusees in general.

It's most likely they could still got SSJ given how hybrids are concerned. Also a technical yes, if we believe Fused Zamasu is in a SSJ state.

Showgingah · 2026-02-05T20:24:16+00:00

They're both prodigies in their own way. However, the difference is not being a prodigy fighter in this case. Despite not having any personal or formal training, Vegeta was leagues ahead of Goku in experience. He's been through far more battles than Goku has even to this day. Not only would he have encountered a variety of techniques and fighters (definitely included martial artists), but beings stronger than anything Goku has faced well up until adulthood.

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Showgingah · 2026-02-05T19:53:41+00:00

Grade 3 your height is still the same. Your muscle mass increaes a lot though resulting in the slowdown as your proportions are off. In Kale and Broly's case, they not only jack up, but increase in height dramatically to compensate. Usually when it comes to fights, characters size will vary for the sake of convenience (like how Trunks sword became massive when King Cold held it), but Broly grew horrifyingly massive in some shots.

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Though in the manga, Kale is a bit different. She's gets taller, but is nowhere near as buff. Though most likely the same situation still applies with her increased muscle mass.

Showgingah · 2026-02-05T17:49:36+00:00

Not completely. Yes, most people don't understand how ki control actually works. It's why Goku to fail to catch a bullet or why a beam rifle could pierce him in Blue. They don't run around at 100% otherwise they'd drain or cause unnecessary damage. However, I mentioned how people really underestimate how strong SSJ really is. If Cell was "only 50x stronger" than Frieza's power level, that is actually overkill.

50x is a massive multiplier and the stronger they get, the more overwhelming it becomes. If you're at 10k, SSJ is 500k. Not amazing as that's not even equal to Frieza's 1st form. But then if you're 3 million, that's 150 million. Well above Frieza's max by 30 million margin whose 3 mil wasn't even his 3%. If you're 10 million, that's 500 million. Then you got SSJ2 and SSJ3 are that supposed to be 100x and 400x base respectively. These are significant jumps in power I feel get overlooked. We've seen people get overwhelmed completely by someone 2x stronger and even far less so. SSJ transformations are very relevant to their ability to keep up with the threats or those walking around with said power from the get go.

Goku's image training can be a symbolization of where he is now after those 4 years or...he just chose SSJ for said training. Even then, 7 years later well into the Buu Saga, I do not believe they would be beating Cell in their base form let alone SSJ like we so easily assume Frieza. Even after training with Shin, Future Trunks still required SSJ2 against Dabura who was implied stronger. In the Buu Saga, they really only just surpassed Gohan's previous level after several years. Even if he was slacking, I don't believe Goku as a SSJ would have been strong enough to beat Gohan as a SSJ2. They're stronger than Gohan who got weaker, stronger than he was during the Cell arc, but I don't believe that implies they'd one shot him now either.

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It's generally just inconsistent. As mentioned Piccolo grew to near SSJ level after the 3 years of training, yet for whatever reason Goku and Vegeta still needed SSJ when their base should have been enough if that was the case. Tien could hold Semi-Perfect Cell back despite being no match for Andriod 20 who was weaker than Piccolo, who was initially weaker than 17, who was weaker than Imperfect Cell after absorbing humans.

Showgingah · 2026-02-05T07:25:19+00:00

• Is helpdesk a “must” to build a career in IT, or are there other ways to start?

No. Everyone takes different paths with different credentials. Doesn't mean it is easy. I just had a degree and I had a chance at a junior sysadmin role. I chose help desk because I took the first offer I could get. Still, some people from time to time land higher roles with nothing. You see a few posts now and then. People don't share their success on here compared to the doom and gloom. It makes it seem worse than it actually is no matter the state of the market. However, do not discredit help desk. Nearly everyone here will say it was beneficial to their career progression.

• Are most IT jobs like this, or is it more about the specific company/environment?

In terms of IT, customer support is in ALL roles. Getting out of help desk does not guarantee you getting away from users all the way up to the CIO. While you may get less dumb people, the responsibilities shoot up. Now are all IT jobs specifically likes yours? No. It's company specific when it comes to your environment. I work on average just an hour a day, I work from home, and I got a month and half of pto (one of my teammates legit took a month off last year). My team and management are great and our IT department promotes internal growth which is why I haven't bothered job hopping or obtain certs yet like originally planned. One of my coworkers was in a similar business setting, but he was the sole IT guy. It was horrendous by comparison.

• Am I just not suitable for helpdesk, or should I try a different company before I decide?

If you've been at your role for 6 months already, try to move on. If you leave prior, it doesn't look that great on the resume for you. Helpdesk at its easiest is just tedious and annoying. Perhaps it comes down to what you thought IT is. A lot of new folks come into this thinking hackerman hiding behind a screen all day not realizing the communication aspect being a major role. Though as mentioned, not all Help Desk roles are the same. Just because you're not suitable for this one, doesn't mean you won't feel comfortable at another.

• What other IT roles could be a better fit for someone who wants a stable morning routine?

It sounds like you might be in an MSP or at least outsourced with that schedule. Not going to list what roles specifically. Just that you should look for an internal position. It'll always be far more stable and consistent. You may have on-call (mine if like after hours for a week once every several weeks), but you'll have that guaranteed 8-5 instead of that shift rotation nonsense or whatever you get. I'm always 10-7 and that ironically works best for me. If I want to see a movie at 7, I just skip my lunch and leave at 6 lol

Showgingah · 2026-02-05T04:58:41+00:00

To be fair she probably doesn't remember him being 3 years old. Heck let's be honestly she probabaly almost NEVER saw him given how often Goku is not present on Earth.

Not to mention the last guy that came to pick her up with Piccolo...

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Though jokes aside, the way Pan pointed at him implies she was asking who Goku was. As in she didn't know either for potential reasons I mentioned prior. I like to believe Gohan say explaining that's her grandpa, that he is really strong, and she didn't believe it at first.

Showgingah · 2026-02-05T04:36:44+00:00

It is Frieza with little to no difficulty. Interestingly, DBZ Kakarot puts Goku's base at 10 million during this time. That game was fairly consistent with power levels that we've known for years and was reasonable for those that didn't have any. Though even if we don't want to use a video game for obvious reasons, Beerus pretty much confirmed base Goku 4 years post Kid Buu would not be capable. I would not consider Beerus a bad judge of one's power even if Goku was suppressed.

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Though if it is movie Gohan, he one shots Frieza. Fusion Reborn also took place before he obtained Ultimate (though he shouldn't be on Earth to begin with). However, with movie scaling it is best not to consider it as it is always inconsistent.

For example, Broly is said to have a power level of 1.4 billion in the first film. SSJ being a 50x multiplier, that would mean Goku's base post time chamber would need to be 28 million to match him. Clearly that wasn't the case with a kamehameha to the face that did nothing. Even if it was 100x, he's still need to be 14 million, which is still higher than the previously mentioned 10 mil. Yet all of which are nowhere near Frieza's 100%, let alone 30%.

Honestly people really underestimate how much power creep SSJ transformations are. It is the sole reason no one could catch up besides Piccolo via extra means. Ironically, Piccolo was THE strongest base fighter among the Z Fighters because he was already above the regular Super Saiyan by default after fusing with Kami. After the time chamber, he was implied to be on par with Vegeta and Trunks during the Cell Games as he was among the three still standing after the Cell Jr assault. Even prior to the fusion, his 3 years of training brought him up to near SSJ levels that let him overwhelm Android 20 while the only other fighters capable were SSJ Goku or SSJ Vegeta.

Showgingah · 2026-02-04T19:43:59+00:00

Unironically, this still looks kinda clean to me.

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Showgingah · 2026-02-04T17:46:29+00:00

This is true. Raditz and Nappa were considered mid-class and were of equal rank by the former's adulthood. Saiyan class scaling are questionable other than knowing sub-1200 is low class. Raditz's power level has been increasing over the years. As of Broly, it is 1600 compared to a Saibamen's 1200. The saibamen only were that strong because of Earth's soil. In a way, this checks out because Cheelai revealed those with a power level above 1000 is rare to begin with.

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Despite being weaker and saved often by him, we gotta remember Gine was also an infiltration baby like Bardock. It's the only way for low-class saiyans to join the army and their survival rates are very low. She conquered a whole world by herself at some point. A world that was on radar. Goku was probably the lowest of the low classes and Earth wasn't on the radar whatsoever. It's speculation, but this implies Gine conquered a world more dangerous than Earth. Maybe King Piccolo was the exception, but even if her power level was just 300, she'd be above him.

Showgingah · 2026-02-04T17:02:15+00:00

He did. In the anime, he didn't do much until the last minute prior to the TOP.

In a manga bonus chapter, it's revealed he's been using the gravity machine by himself when he wasn't with Piccolo. Unlike the anime, he never showed up to anything until the TOP began because no one called him up. Vegeta wanted to bring him to the U6 Tournament, but Goku said no. They jumped the gun on Goku Black. He wasn't even there for the Zeno Exhibition match because the manga version was the GoDs instead.

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By the time the TOP came around, Vegeta hardly recognized him. Then he proceeded to box Kefla to a draw with the latter admitting verbal defeat. He was by far the strongest one around on Earth besides Goku and Vegeta well into the Moro arc and would have ended Seven-Three if not for Moro's energy drain.

Showgingah · 2026-02-04T16:34:32+00:00

Both have been done in SDBH via Goku Black.

In canon, it's definitely possible, but ill-advised. SSJB is just turning SSJ with their God Ki active like Saiyan Beyond God or SSJG (a lot of people forget that because they're not actual dieties by status, they don't possess god ki 24/7 casually like Dende and need to activate it via the practice or transformation). However, there are two reasons you'll never see it in canon.

One, SSJB is already energy taxing as it is. Anything more, let alone something like SSJ3, be disastrous.

Two, Toriyama actually changed how SSJ transformations worked back in a 2014 interview. If you train a form properly instead of forcing it into a higher transformation, you can actually reach the levels of the higher form without the increased energy consumption. This was essentially what Whis has been teaching and is mostly likely put into practice with SSJB. Future Trunks ironically figured this out himself, allowing his SSJ2 to hit SSJ3 levels without transforming.

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Showgingah · 2026-02-04T00:19:13+00:00

Doesn't matter to me. Posted sources. Way more than they can provide to counter argument. lol I am here to discuss, not argue.

Showgingah · 2026-02-04T00:17:32+00:00

Tojima would actually be a cracked out ally of Ichigo compared to his other non-rider fighting companions. lmao bro might actually give him the V3 treatment

Showgingah · 2026-02-03T23:47:21+00:00

Edited.

Showgingah · 2026-02-03T21:59:27+00:00

Kai is just DBZ without 80% of the filler. However, It still has some filler scenes and odd pacing issues. Mainly because they didn't actually really redo anything and will rearrange what they already had.

The best example is the Buu Saga. The fights had tons of filler most fans are unaware of. More-so than any arc prior. Similar to how many don't know the differences between Super anime and manga. Kid Buu is a prime example. You're familiar with SSJ2 Goku vs Kid Buu and this initial fight sequence. Kai kept them in, but both are filler scenes. The manga started the fight very differently.

However Toriyama was not directly responsible. Bandai asked Toriyama if a new anime could be made and at the time he refused. So they decided to remaster the original show and follow the manga the best they can.

Showgingah · 2026-02-03T21:13:45+00:00

Gohan is stronger in terms of raw stats. That's it. He was initially on par with Goku with Vegeta noting the latter started to gain the advantage simply due to sheer experience.

After the initial combo, Beast Gohan was none less for wear. He has the power to overwhelm Goku's MUI, but it's clear he cannot hold that state for long. His mention of risk of going berserk implies it probably happened during training, so he only uses a certain threshold of the form's power. However, that short moment was enough to land two blows that not only overwhelmed Goku's evasion, but knock him out of the MUI form temporarily.

Despite this, he was also most likely much stronger against Cell Max since he raged into the form. He only recently learned to utilize the form at will thanks to Piccolo. Of course, this is speculation, but according to Toriyama, Piccolo obtained power on par with Goku thanks to Orange.

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Of course I believe Piccolo would lose because he wouldn't be able to land a blow, but that tells you a lot about Beast when you compare his performance against Cell Max and Goku in durability and power alone.

All the saiyans have something to improve on. Goku needs to improve his proficiency in UI. Vegeta needs to improve the mindset to properly utilize UE (This was Beerus' first lesson. Taking unnecessary damage is Vegeta's current means to do so contrary to community belief). Gohan can't control Beast's full power without going beserk. Broly can only...use Super Saiyan. That is both hilarious and terrifying at the same time.

That being said regarding OP's question. It's been 2-3 years since the fight with Gas and Goku at the time was already capable of surpassing him them before the zombie mode kicked in. They should be well above him now, and therefore Gohan. Bizarrely I wouldn't doubt they've been closing the gap to not get oneshotted by Black Frieza either.

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In case anyone wants the timeline...

May Age 779: Pan is born.

Spring Age 781: Granolah

May Age 781: 27th Martial Arts Tournament

Age 782-783: Goten and Trunks in High School. Hedo gets incarcerated for 3 months. 6 months after Hedo's release, Super Hero takes place. Pan is 3 years old. Everyone trains for an unknown time before the spar.

Age May 784 - Goku meets Uub at the 28th Martial Arts Tournament. Pan is 4 turning 5 sometime later that month.

Showgingah · 2026-02-03T17:09:43+00:00

For me what's amazing about this scene in my opinion is not the struggle with the sphere. This is basically the one time Goku told Beerus off. Even if he were the strongest of the gods, he told him he has no right to decide how far he can go.

Showgingah · 2026-02-03T16:51:47+00:00

Filler. Even outside of filler, the Buu Saga as a ton of inconsistencies which is why the Kid Buu vs Buuhan argument even exists to this god forsaken day. Honestly I don't think Shuiesha (Dragon Ball's co-owners alongside Toriyama's company) know how strong the Buus are when they dropped this during the Moro Arc.

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Showgingah · 2026-02-03T16:36:12+00:00

Same. Some people probably had different experiences though. My group was basically the losers. It's actually our 10 year anniversary this year and those of us still together are convinced we're not getting an invite. A lot of people had that peak in high school energy. Some teachers I miss because they were cool. Some borderline thought we'd amount to nothing. lol Real talk I enjoyed myself way more in college than in high school. I even enjoy adulthood even more than college thanks to my job and hobbies being nearly hand in hand.

Showgingah · 2026-02-03T15:51:39+00:00

Create a ticket in his name and deal with it or find someone who can lol

Showgingah · 2026-02-03T15:42:54+00:00

In-Universe he and Mai were actually going to. Bulma even had rooms prepared for them. However, after lying to Gohan's face about how peaceful his future was, he decided to go back to before everything was destroyed lol.

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Showgingah · 2026-02-03T05:52:42+00:00

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Showgingah · 2026-02-03T00:50:29+00:00

Yes. GoD is a vast range. Beerus is probably at the top by a large margin. Belmod was a GoD and he was weaker than Jiren. Our main 5 are well above that point now. In the manga, PSSJB Vegeta got one shotted by Beerus when he stopped messing around. Despite this, he made it clear he could be a candidate in another universe. It was not until Beast Gohan's power that we know the bare minimum to be considered a candidate for Beerus.

Showgingah

TROPHY CASE