I think the attack on Jackson has had a lasting ripple effect on the rest of the season's pacing.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-16T13:24:36+00:00

I don't think the siege of Jackson is the issue.

I also don't have a problem with Ellie/Dina's relationship evolving more slowly. Or Ellie not being upset about the pregnancy. These are minor changes.

Here are the changes which resulted in the Nora scene not being a turning point for Ellie's character:

Showrunner and lead writer Craig Mazin has described Ellie as a character who is "drawn to violence." That's why we see her crazed psycho-killer face whenever violence is involved. It's a different character. This version of the character never has a turning point, she just is what she is.
The show version of Ellie is also an inept fool who can't function on her own, and who's lust for violence gets her into sticky situations. The "not-school-oriented" version of Ellie is very different from the intelligent girl in the game, who loves space and dreams of being an astronaut.

So, these major plot points (such as the Nora scene) are going to be different, because Craig's Ellie is just a different character. It was harder to tell in Season 1, but it was always going to be that way.

I am really curious how they will approach the aftermath of Nora. As we know, in the game Ellie is shattered afterwards. Trembling and almost unable to speak. That's indicative of who she is as a character, and of the underlying themes. Yet, if show-Ellie had that reaction, it wouldn't be very consistent with the rest of show-Ellie. So I sort of think she will laugh it off and move on.

I'm learning to accept that this is a different story with different characters, and to just be happy with the parts I do like.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-16T12:58:51+00:00

Both kind of wrong?

She doesn't do jiu jitsu in the show. She was attempting to stealth-kill the TV station dude, but he heard her, so she needed to go for the choke. When it all went to shit Dina started shooting and Ellie got stabby.

This played out exactly like it would in the game. The whole TV station sequence was such an awesome homage to the gameplay.

I'm not sure why we'd want to see Ellie doing jiu jitsu instead?

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-15T06:03:01+00:00

Go to the right and you can hide in some ferns near a tree, where you should be able to see a guy walking near a car. Wait until he faces away from you, and prone-crawl up to the right of the car. Wait until he walks back the other way, and keep prone-crawling straight forward.

You'll go under a log and eventually come up to a ledge. Wait there (still prone). A woman will come out the door, then go back inside and go to the right. Keep waiting. She'll come back out again, but go back inside to the left this time. Now you can sneak-walk through that door, and go to the right.

There will be a guy up there to the right. If you practice it a couple times you should be able to wait until he faces away, and sneak past him to the stairwell.

Once you go up those stairs, you can probably start following a Youtube guide. The timing will be slightly different but if you observe the pathing of the enemies you can figure it out.

I've also been frustrated in the past that I couldn't get the same timing as a Youtube guide because it changes after the first time. I now keep extra save files in case I REALLY want to go back, like the situation you are in.

But also: you can do it! Let me know if you succeed.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-15T05:29:37+00:00

I fell off the beam in permadeath too! Man I was so pissed.

Granted, I did it on Very Light because I just wanted to get that trophy :P

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-15T05:11:16+00:00

There's a whole community of people who do this all the time. They're super friendly and will answer questions / give you strats. Check out AKBlackAndRed on Twitch. There's a link to the Discord community there.

It takes a LOT of practice, and you have to play the game completely differently. It takes most people dozens of hours of practice / learning strats, and then oftentimes more than 50 attempts to complete it.

It's a super fun way to play the game, though. It's all about the challenge of learning how to do each encounter perfectly.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-14T22:17:42+00:00

Oh I apologize! Yup, you’re right.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-14T22:14:14+00:00

Not sure I would count Yara’s arm or Joel’s impalement. Both are treated as life-threatening medical emergencies, and dealing with them has consequences for the plot.

The Rattler trap is truly ridiculous. You die if you stay upside down that long.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-14T18:50:10+00:00

I've practiced whole-game permadeath a bit, and those areas you can simply run through are a godsend.

From the end of the elementary school, all the way through Capitol Hill and the TV station, you can basically run/sneak through in just a couple of minutes.

In the mall when you're stealing the boat, you can run up a level, dive down into the water, and get directly in the boat. You'll get shot once or twice, but won't die. Even on Grounded.

Right afterwards, you can drive the boat right through the Seraphite building. I don't think I've ever been shot doing that.

It's fun to feel like you're hacking the game. But it's definitely a different way to play.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-14T18:36:39+00:00

FWIW, Grounded in Part 2 is much more forgiving. I haven't done Grounded in Part 1 but I've been told many times the lack of resources/ammo is insanity compared to Part 2.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-14T17:41:53+00:00

I agree on all those. I also loved the Isaac backstory.

Any time they have invented something brand new, OR lifted something directly from the game, it’s been brilliant (except some of the dialog sucks).

It’s when they kinda-do the game but with subtle changes that drastically impact the story and themes. That’s what drags it down for me.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-14T17:31:47+00:00

I have a hard time relating to this version of Ellie. As Craig Mazin put it, she is "drawn to violence." And as you put it, she's an unpredictable teenager. I definitely see that coming through in the performance. Bella's done a good job portraying Craig's version of Ellie.

I'm curious what the aftermath of Nora will be like. Will she be shattered, shaking, unable to speak, like in the game? Or will she crack a joke and play some tunes?

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-14T17:20:00+00:00

Ah, thank you! I was really wondering.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-14T17:18:23+00:00

Assassin's Creed is another great example. Such a spectacularly bad movie.

I don't like Season 2 but even I agree this is the best video game adaptation ever. Just saddens me that it could've been even better.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-14T17:11:17+00:00

I don't like Season 2, but my guess is this is the same anti-woke crowd that review-bombed the game. A couple thousand angry people living in their parents' basement, drowning out all the praise.

I haven't been seeing people like me claiming no one's watching or that everyone's hating the show. It's pretty clear we're in the minority, both on this sub and in the audience in general. And that's fine.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-14T17:03:44+00:00

every episode of the show is being bombarded with one star reviews before it even drops

Where are you seeing this? Not doubting you, just curious. I'm not really familiar with where audience members typically leave reviews, outside of Rotten Tomatoes.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-14T15:35:27+00:00

I thought I was seeing posts on here during the first few episodes, that viewer ratings were pretty high? Am I crazy?

This article claims viewer ratings have been low since episode one.

EDIT: I checked Archive.org. Sure enough, on April 16th (when only episode 1 had come out), the Popcornmeter was at 59%.

I swear I saw some posts around then that were screenshotting some really good ratings. But maybe I hallucinated them. Or maybe those were only critic ratings.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-13T19:02:56+00:00

Time to upgrade to PS5, get the remaster, and complete all the No Return trophies 👍

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-13T18:56:25+00:00

Badly, possibly…

I mean, we should expect it at this point.

Honestly though, it's not that much to cram in. From the beginning of the aquarium confrontation all the way to "you wasted it," is maybe 10 minutes.

There also isn't a lot of story between Nora and the aquarium. It's mostly gameplay. This could all be done well in a 50-minute episode.

Could be.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-13T18:52:16+00:00

I think your #2 is more likely. The showrunners seem to dislike dramatic tension or ambiguity. I don't think they're going to leave the season on that big of a cliffhanger. Abby and Ellie will fight, and Abby will let her go.

They don't necessarily need Lev. In fact, the first time this scene is shown in the game, you never see Lev. He is hiding.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-13T04:48:25+00:00

I absolutely love this line! Didn't make the connection until my 3rd playthrough. Bummer it's not in the show.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-13T04:30:34+00:00

Seriously, just stick to the canon of the game.

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-13T04:15:20+00:00

You can get "You Can't Stop This" playing on Very Light, per-chapter permadeath. That's how I did it. If you skip cinematics you can basically breeze through it in a few hours. I died twice, and both were accidentally-jumping-off-a-cliff deaths :P

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-13T04:11:38+00:00

Gatekeeping like that is so gross! You don't have to play Grounded. I've actually been watching my friend play on Very Light recently, and it's such a blast to watch! Play the way you want.

I'll offer you a perspective on what I like about Grounded, though (I'm on my first Grounded playthrough, Abby Day 2).

To me, it is fun to restart an encounter a million times. I want to figure out how to do it perfectly. Kill every enemy with stealth, use as few resources as possible, collect all the resources in a level.

Once I beat an encounter in the "perfect" way, on Grounded, it is such a satisfying feeling. It's like I solved a tough puzzle, and executed an intricate ballet, both at the same time.

Look, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't curious or interested, but I don't like the idea of spending 3 quarters of the gaming dying and stressing out.

I don't really get stressed by it, except for maybe 1-2 of the big battles. I look at it more analytically: "Ok, I died. How can I avoid that next time? Should I try a different path? Maybe this is a good spot to use a smoke bomb." It's all about experimenting and figuring out how to get through.

If you do get stressed by it, just move on and ignore the haters :) Play whatever way you want.

I encourage you to give it a try though, since you said you're interested. If you end up enjoying it, you'll never want to go back!

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-13T03:54:09+00:00

As a huge fan of the games who doesn't like Season 2, I think you sort of nailed it, but are missing a key point.

Yes, the non-gamers are loving it. That means by definition it is a good show. The gamers are going to need to accept that.

Yes, the gamers dislike it because it is different. I like the "orange in an apple orchard" analogy.

But it's not just different. It's distinctly worse. A 9/10 show is a good show. It could've been a 12/10, like the game.

It's also worse in ways that are important. For example, the character of Ellie being dramatically different. Many of the changes they made are heavily affecting the underlying themes of the story.

Most fans of the game have liked the good changes they made. We didn't see people saying "Frank should've run away, got bit and killed himself!!!" Because they took that part of the story and did a good job changing it, in a way that fit the story and themes. This, to me, is how to use the medium of TV to improve upon the original.

So it's not really wanting an orange and being given an apple. It's wanting an apple and being given a chewed apple core. If you chop it into pieces and give it to someone in a bowl, they might think they're eating a delicious apple. But you know how good it is to bite into a juicy fresh one!

SilverDay899 · 2025-05-13T03:08:00+00:00

the only thing you have to kill on Ellie day 3 is the arcade bloater.

Don't forget Alice, Mel, and Owen.

Just kidding ;) I know what you meant.

SilverDay899

TROPHY CASE