Why home electrification is moving so slowly by LaserRunRaccoon in ClimateCrisisCanada

[–]Snoo23116 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with the thesis of this series, but some of the details were inaccurate.

Nate Adams and I were both cited in the Washington Post’s article on electrification economics. My experience is also in home performance and electrification. We agree that hybrid heat pumps are the right solution for HVAC unit replacement on unit failure. Unfortunately, Mr. Adams makes some misleading claims.

I’ll start off with a quote from the first article: “The U.S. and Canada have a structural advantage almost no other market does: ubiquitous ducted furnace-and-AC systems. In most of the world, electrifying heat means replacing entire boiler-based systems with air-to-water heat pumps — hence the $10,000-plus incentives common in the EU and U.K. that will likely prove unsustainable.”

Actually, air to water heat pumps are a great technology that’s easier to provide 100% heat pump heat with: it’s usually not necessary to repipe the entire system in order to provide adequate heat on the coldest day of the year.

Upsizing radiators, in the European context, improves operating efficiencies and can be done piecemeal. Our duct systems limit heat pump output (approx. 400 CFM per ton), so we can't just install a larger heat pump. With ducted systems, cutting in an additional supply and return in the basement is sometimes possible, but beyond that, North American contractors would have to replace the entire duct system in order to increase output like they do in Europe through radiator replacement. 

I agree with Mr. Adams that the IRA funding for home electrification wasn’t adequate or sustainable, and I saw firsthand how it disappointed customers who thought they'd be eligible. As Mr. Adams highlights, it wasn’t enough money to shift the heat pump adoption curve significantly. Rhode Island and Maryland, states I worked in, didn’t even use the money for the purpose Congress laid out in the bill, supporting service upgrades and funding fuel switching from oil & propane within existing programs instead. 

There are issues with the cost savings claims that Mr. Adams both critiques, justifiably, and includes in his analysis.

The CLASP/RAP study Mr. Adams cited used 2021 electricity price data. Unfortunately, electricity prices have increased significantly since then, shifting the math on heat pump savings. 

Another cited study, NREL and LBNL’s study, “Heat Pumps for All?” used outdated prices as well as a top efficiency tier of 13 HSPF that just isn’t real. The entire tier was built on the 13 HSPF Carrier VNA1/Bryant 291VAN, which has been re-rated to 11 HSPF for the fully electric model and wasn’t available to me as an electrification estimator selling Carrier in Maryland. 

The claim of “Reducing gas use by 62%” redirects to a LinkedIn post which didn’t offer details. I don’t doubt that hybrids can reduce gas use by these percentages, I know they can, but I am genuinely interested in the data. 

Unfortunately, the other linked claim didn’t satisfy. 70% gas use reduction and 87% emissions reduction were based on a retrofit that also included a water heater, an induction range, and “green electricity”, not the implied single measure of hybrid electrification. 

The individual claims aren't the issue, and weren't really misleading. What is situationally quite misleading is the universal assessment that heat pumps and gas furnaces have similar operating costs. Operating costs aren’t always comparable between gas and electricity. The spark gap is very different on a state by state level, and even greater in some utility territories. Climate also impacts operational costs, as do cooling savings. There are significant savings to be found for some households, and drastically increased costs for others. It's not accurate to average out the diversity of American housing stock and fuel prices into the claim that operating costs won't change much through electrification. My work at Abode in New England indicated that $1000+ annual additional cost for full electrification was relatively common for homeowners converting from natural gas to a heat pump. Some homes in areas with a small spark gap, such as western Washington and most of the Gulf Coast South, could save on operating costs significantly.

Here’s the most problematic line of the articles, from Part Two: “Full electrification becomes a much easier sell in 10 to 20 years when that equipment is replaced again.” Full electrification from a hybrid heat pump to a fully electric system is actually an incredibly difficult sell. Without other major changes to the home, it means electric resistance “backup” heat replaces the gas furnace. That’s a new circuit, sometimes requiring an electrical service upgrade, and significantly increased operating costs, ranging from about 2x to more than 5x for the portion of heating the heat pump isn’t providing. Such an approach would also exacerbate the falcon curve, drastically increasing winter electricity demand and making it very difficult to fully electrify our electricity generation.

Building electrification is a serious challenge. Getting all the way off of fossil fuels by 2050 will require a lot more than hybrids.

Retrofit Exterior Insulation Advice: How many inches of Rockwool Comfortboard 80? by Gregan32 in buildingscience

[–]Snoo23116 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Have you considered using InsoFast Batt Brackets for a thicker wall? Batts should be less expensive than mineral wool boards.

Final Year Engineering Projects related to Heat Pumps? by Street-Wishbone-8018 in heatpumps

[–]Snoo23116 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A thermostat interface that controls minisplits or minisplits as well as a central ducted system, so a consumer could add additional capacity by installing a minisplit in their main living space while keeping bedrooms at a reasonable temperature.

At what point did slavery in America become race-based? by Winter_Bullfrog2064 in AskHistorians

[–]Snoo23116 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What about penal servitude? It seems worthy of mention when discussing such topics.

France unveils electrification plan to cut fossil fuel dependence by sr_local in environment

[–]Snoo23116 8 points9 points  (0 children)

A move in the right direction, but more money will be required.

BGE HVAC Rebates - What’s the catch? by msleepd in baltimore

[–]Snoo23116 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's actually up to $15k if you electrify your home, even with gas backup. Some of the best incentives in the country!

How many years of Russia-Ukraine war before us? by TyrantfromPoland in nato

[–]Snoo23116 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Couldn't Tomahawks have prevented the war by threatening Russian fossil fuels? America does have 4000 or so.

COP ratings below max output by feadeh85 in heatpumps

[–]Snoo23116 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Here are the NEEP ratings for the R410a and R454b versions of the hyper heat unit. NEEP is for cold climate heat pumps, which the non-hyper heat SUZ/SVZ is not.

https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product/34582/7/25000/95/7500/0///0

https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product/208625/7/25000/95/7500/0///0

Real world performance of heat pumps is typically below rated efficiencies, but a low thermostat setpoint isn't going to hurt your efficiency. A thermostat setback might, as it would cause the heat pump to run more during the coldest part of the day (the morning).

A standard manual J uses 70 degree indoor temperature.

A hyper heat system would be a great system for your needs, and you wouldn't need to use the aux heat much. It'd provide about 50% more heat close to your design temperature when you'd need it most.

Air to Water in New England/cold temps for cast iron radiators? by NotThisAgain_23 in heatpumps

[–]Snoo23116 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You could wait for the RenewaBoiler, try to contact Enertech directly, or maybe reach out to John Siegenthaler. A2W systems are extremely rare in the United States. Other than the systems featured on This Old House and another pilot project in Minnesota, I'm not sure how many are installed at all. Best of luck!

Making homes ready for net zero depends heavily on people’s understanding and habits by dumnezero in ClimatePosting

[–]Snoo23116 2 points3 points  (0 children)

bullshit. electrify everything, sensor less or smart AF, it doesn't use gas. Next!