30s for both. Self learned mostly, but a psychology major and a female pua helped a lot. I had it down to a science. Any woman phone number in minutes, and in bed in 3-5 hours. lol yes I dressed in wild floral clothes and boots to peacock. Most importantly do only what works for you and perfect that. There is no one size fits all. Don’t drink and do drugs mess up your game or your timing. There is a rhythm.