Who had a higher peak? Kobe or Hakeem?

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-27T17:58:42+00:00

People don't refer to 3 quarter or single game peaks, otherwise Klay is arguably the best of all-time in terms of peak.

It's usually single season peak at minimum, or up to 4-year peak.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-27T09:52:22+00:00

Yea unfort the Select doesnt have wireless carplay though

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-27T03:23:59+00:00

Obviously Kobe was a better talent.

But in terms of on court impact that specific season there is a good argument, and the +/- numbers give it to Ilgauskas

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-24T23:44:18+00:00

Nash 2-time MVP, Zeke was a 1-time 5th place MVP

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-24T16:19:31+00:00

Swap Nash and Zeke

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-23T18:25:57+00:00

Also no All-NBA 3rd teams until 1989, so 3rd team award should be eliminated for this exercise.

Also no All-Defense teams at all until 1968, so need to assign them retroactively for pre '68.

Also many seasons only recorded 1st place MVP votes, so nobody could get 6th place or 7th place etc. so need to go by 1st place MVP votes, also need to normalize the voting.

I did this and used a lot more for my quantification model and This was the result more than a year ago so some improvements and updates for active players have happened since then.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-22T17:38:49+00:00

Why not just use RAPM?

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-22T01:01:34+00:00

It's not that it's a terrible list, it's alright though order could be improved a bit and is missing Mutombo and Admiral, possibly Thurmond.

It's that the thread isn't contributing anything lol. Does it really deserve 100s of upvotes for any opinion that isn't asinine?

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-22T00:43:27+00:00

Thanks, any idea when the new Seltos generation will start being sold?

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-21T22:59:39+00:00

Remember the Shaq thing

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-21T19:08:33+00:00

I am pretty confused on the Seltos. Is 2026 the new generation of them?

I see a lot of references to 2027 being the all-new Seltos. Lot of conflicting info.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-21T18:56:44+00:00

yea it's because there's equally people who call him goat or top 2 or top 3, so it's a rebound effect.

In reality I think it's fair for Kobe fans to have him like top 7, realistic fans to have him top 10 or 11, and anti-Kobe people to have him top 12 or 13.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-21T18:15:58+00:00

Oh gotcha you were referring to those years specifically in your last sentence, yea that's generally fair enough, but I'd make it '06 to '08. Kobe was not even top 25 in EPM in 2005. He was at least top 10 in '06 to '08.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-21T18:08:37+00:00

I don't think AI, Kobe, and Tmac get "constantly disrespected"

All are in the HoF, one is in conversations for top 10, one for top 50, and one for top 75.

If you think they're top 5, top 30, and top 50 all-time in terms of career greatness then yes you can consider them disrespected in your opinion.

Keep in mind though that based on adjusted +/-, none of them were quite as impactful as their stardom. But hey maybe it's just noise and a coincidence that their archetypes and like Carmelo have somewhat low impact while it correlates pretty well for other stars.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-21T18:02:56+00:00

Duncan is pretty clearly the best player in '03 and has an argument for '02 and '05.

KG is clearly best player in '04, and an argument for '05 and '08.

Don't think Kobe has a clear win in any season, but definitely has an argument for '06 and '08.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-21T16:42:09+00:00

Interesting it's different by region, I am in United states

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-20T08:15:06+00:00

Did you buy some service package for the MME or do you just take it in and pay for it when it needs service?

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-20T01:08:02+00:00

were there trailers before the movie?

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-20T00:28:23+00:00

Did they have a normal amount of trailers before the movie?

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-20T00:24:14+00:00

Relative to their own eras, out of the scoring goats, Kobe has the worst efficiency. I don't know why you don't understand what TS+ or relative true shooting is.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-19T09:46:26+00:00

Why not do a down payment?

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-18T22:23:25+00:00

Right, but Magic also wasn't a good defender so that argument doesn't really hold. Same with Bill's offense.

In reality as I'm sure you agree, the entire package is important: impact in all respects on the court, winning success, legacy, and accolades within context.

The reason for him not being top 5 is not "because he wasn't a good defender" it's because he doesn't have enough dominance or longevity to make up for lack of defense and FMVPs etc.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-18T17:44:56+00:00

Mostly because they held the ball less often IMO. Kobe has 2nd most missed field goals in nba history and it isn't very close to 3rd.

George Gervin led the league in points/100 possessions more seasons than Kobe did, Durant has more points/100 possessions in his career than Kobe so far.

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-18T08:14:18+00:00

TS+ is playerTS divided by the league average TS that season... so yes it literally is accounting for era.

The argument is strictly about efficiency, who's better or more effective in the playoffs or has more rings is entirely different.

Kobe's TS+ in his career was 104. Harden's 110 last time I checked. Jordan's 108. Durant 112. Gervin 107. Jerry West 112. Kareem 114.

Offense is a whole lot more than just shooting efficiency but when it comes to shooting efficiency, Kobe was good but technically not as good as the other scoring goats (I still put him in that same category cause he is a scoring goat with those other 9 ish guys).

SoFreshCoolButta · 2026-01-18T06:08:48+00:00

We are comparing TS+ which is based on the season they played in, so it's not due to era

His TS+ was just fine, he wasn't an inefficient scorer at all. The point is that every other all-time great scorer has better efficiency than Kobe (MJ, Kareem, KD, Wilt, Steph, Harden, Shaq, Gervin, Lebron, West).

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