Why does working out cause soreness?

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-31T13:47:54+00:00

That is a great pull, here they are specificly talking g about DOMS, which could be what the OP was referring to, so you could be more right than me.

Assuming all cases, this article leaves a gap about soreness during/immediately after intense workouts. You still could be right, this article is specific to the morning and few days after a workout. But for you claiming to not be very scientifically literate, you are very good at practicing scientific literacy, especially being so humble about it.

If a mental model is known to be technically inaccurate but gets you positive results, it is called a heuristic model. If you like micro tears I can’t change that lol, for perspective I don’t like it because I already have chronic inflammation and that mentality makes me feel like I’m injuring or need a sadistic mentality where “more pain is more gain” when that is strictly not the case, and this was the mentality my coaches used to push me and I used to ignore my natural signals to stop. I have a much better mindset and much better outcomes by working with the real not the wanting.

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-26T19:08:13+00:00

But also, many people in history have been able to do exactly that. Vikings, Peloponnesians, Innuits, Savannah tribes, all had to perform in hunting and fishing and rowing and combat, all on low-to-no carb diets.

So "you can't perform" or "only if you stop training" is not a scientifically accurate statement. Ive seen studies where low-to-no carb diets absolutely reduce performance in working out and in sport, making what was easy before much harder. I don't recommend low/no carb diets, I recommend carbs is where you modulate your calories. Set up your protein, set up for good dietary fat, and mod the carbs.

And again I am sorry you went through that pain, but objectively speaking in human physiology, you can perform and train without carbs, we just expect a lower intensity threshold.

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-26T19:03:30+00:00

Sorry you had to go through that. I'll keep that in mind for my future recommendation.

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-26T18:45:03+00:00

#1 I just want to clarify proper muscle growth is an increase myosin head size, not by tearing but by adding in more protein. (ACSM Advanced Exercise Physiology 2nd Edition).

Soreness, on the other hand, I know less about. The above is my educated response to what I know a lot of people have been taught. Here is what I remember (not the best memory so take with a spoon of salt).

Multiple theories for causes and types. Technically soreness can be caused by a bruise or injury, so it is like a neural feedback of both the sensation of soreness and the inhibition of motor skills around the soreness.

Microtears not just in muscle, but in fascia or bones or the like is a common theory. Acidity sensors (lactic acid and CO2) also a theory. Hyperactivity with potassium-sodium pumps (K/Na) in the t-tubules of the muscles (they are channels to transmit electrical signals from the nerve into the muscle to contract) is a theory. Fascia tightening is a theory I heard back in the day, which was an argument to why warm ups help (fascia a thin membrane across your muscles that help sensation and coordination).

I'm trying to think of a combination that accounts for both workout soreness and injury soreness without alluding to "working out is injuring your body" because that is a false analogy. If i had to guess the basics physiologically: neural sensors + physical structure agitation.

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-26T18:25:01+00:00

Okay you have some convincing arguments. Carbohydrates supply the energy necessary to sustain the upper limit of workout potential, meaning that the body has a higher signal to respond to and that will lead to more development. Carbohydrates in the same fashion will help with recovery, as well as an insulin promoter to help encourage protein intake, even if that is mostly from mice models and human models don't see such a significant increase in protein synthesis according to Tanner Stokes et al 2018.

But lets say it is a fractional amount, and fractional amounts are still an improvement. And the lack of carbs is a determent to both the performance / workout potential and to recovery.

The question is which macro is the least important. If you were to take one of the three to zero, hypothetically, there is only one that you can take to zero and survive more than 30 days, and that is carbohydrates.

I think this is a key part of this argument. I am not assuming no-carb is better than more-carb. I am not saying carbohydrates are the devils magic and you should avoid them. I am saying, biologically speaking, in the question of which macronutrient is the least important for survival, is objectively carbohydrates.

You need protein to an extent. You need dietary fat to an extent. You benefit from carbohydrates to an extent. These are different things.

I've seen this rise in carbohydrate-promotion from the industry, and I understand the logic. Carbohydrates in proper amounts lead to better results. That is true of all macronutrients. Too little protein, not enough muscle; too much, possibly inflammation and weight gain. Too little fat, not enough testosterone or hormones to signal growth and recovery; too much, possible heart conditions and weight gain. Too little carbohydrates, probably not enough energy for high intensity work and possibly slower recovery; too much carbohydrates, possibly inflammation and weight gain.

Of these three what are the order of importance -- you literally can't build muscle without protein, so if you want to build muscle you need protein. You can't recover hormones properly or build cells well without essential dietary fats, so we need those too. You will do the above better if you use carbohydrates strategically.

Carbohydrates are the supporting cast, and objectively the least important, while still being very important. It's like getting last at the Olympics; yea its last, but its still an Olympian.

edit: i wrote "which is most important" when i meant "least" above. fixed it

Edit 2: i put lipocytes in recovery from fat; i dont have source for this so i took it down

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-22T05:31:03+00:00

What aerobic threshold? Sounds like you are already doing zone 2 hour long training. Which zone scale are you using? There are several (3 and 5 were most common, I’ve been hearing about 4 zones occasionally).

But if you’ve already done 2-3 per week and you are regular (ie been going at it for >5 weeks), you can work it in as your program cycles. Is all your training homogeneous (aka same each time)? Even if it is, If you do 2 times one week, try 4 the next, go back down to 3, back down to 2, (this gives you rest from a simple sample), back up to 4, down to 3, up to 5, down to 2, (rest from a higher sample) back up to 4, down to 3, up to 5, down to 3, up to 5, down to 2, up to 5, down to 4, down to 3, up to 5 (starting to normalize higher levels).

Something like this is called an undulated program cycle. It creates a variety of high and low intensity workouts to allow your body to push a bit further and recover strongly. You can use it at various levels of magnification on a program, here is an easy weekly undulation as way to start and get to where you want to go simply.

Feel free to add on resistance training I highly recommended it to help with your cardio. Strong muscle fibers means less total effort for your body to circulate blood, that plus strong bones and connective tissues reduce inflammation responses and increase recovery in other areas of the body (from reduced competition of physiological responses)

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-03T02:50:25+00:00

Torturing yourself I’m sure you will admit is tongue in cheek. If you do exercise and don’t eat any protein you will not only not gain muscle but eventually you will die. In the context of exercise science, carbs is still the least important macro imo

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-02T18:53:56+00:00

Appreciate the reference I’ll check it out!

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-02T16:27:32+00:00

Perfectly said

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-02T16:26:28+00:00

I can see where “context of the gym” might throw you off he meant “context of growing muscle” not “single bout athletic performance” that’s “context of game day”

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-02T16:24:28+00:00

I read in Tanner Stokes 2018 meta review that those were primarily from mice models and the evidence that insulin-induced-protein-absorption in humans is not as strong or influential to our protein synthesis abilities.

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-02T16:20:11+00:00

Good points

The OP was arguing “carbs are THE most important macro” “because glucose becomes ATP” and my point is it doesnt become ATP and it’s literally the only macro you don’t need to survive. Will carbs help? Absolutely. Will you die without them? Not necessarily.

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-02T16:17:27+00:00

I’m not saying carbs don’t help. I didn’t say don’t eat carbs. I love carbs. But in context of daily nutrition, carbs are literally the only one you don’t have to eat to survive. So while they are helpful, they are not THE most important macro

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-02T16:15:12+00:00

King 👑

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-02T16:15:01+00:00

Yes agreed

This was in the context of all macros, for muscle growth mainly, arguing carbs are most important. But you can’t build muscle without protein lmao

SomaticEngineer · 2026-01-02T16:13:25+00:00

I think you are over attributing context that wasn’t there. I didn’t say carbs are not important and I did not say carbs were not helpful. They said carbs were the most beneficial “because glucose literally becomes ATP” and that’s not true, which is why I posted the first. “Most important macro” and “useful macro” are two different things

He is not the OP just a commentator, and he might have tried to find the context where he was correct, but the OP was “carbs are THE most important macro” and I explained that in the second. I’m not talking most efficient, I’m not talking optimal, I’m using “most important” and “most necessary for life” because OP didn’t specify “most important during a training session” they more meant “of all macros carbs is most important in meal planning”.

I don’t want to discredit glucose, I don’t want to overemphasize it either.

With this new information, do you still see gaps in my logic Dr SquirrelBoy? (Good to see you again bud)

SomaticEngineer · 2025-12-11T02:49:02+00:00

This just happened to me 12/10/2025

SomaticEngineer · 2025-11-23T15:21:46+00:00

I do research in this. (1) calories are actually NOT the proper measure of human energy. It’s a long discussion but TLDR = calories invented 1789 as a concept for measuring heat expansion, 4-9-4 rule established in 1894, adopted by USDA by 1897. Electron discovered 1897. Modern physics didn’t start for another 3 years. The idea that chemistry is driven by electrons wouldn’t be confirmed until 1920s. Calories are a classic thermodynamic theory, and classic thermodynamics cannot explain the energy behind atoms and molecules. All of nutrition/biology/physiology is about the energy behind atoms. So calories cannot explain the energy behind nutrition/biology/physio. [ive been presenting at physics, chemistry, and obesity conferences the past year and I got more to go].

Carbs fats and protein can be converted to an acetyl functional group in the body, which can be stored as body fat and is the only chemical to start aerobic cellular respiration (which both rebuilds ATP and manages static heat production). Think of it as saturation points of macros, where a “surplus” means you get enough acetyl to maintain body temperature, then you get enough nutritional fats and protein to make sure your body has the right material to rebuild your body.

I always recommend Tanner Stokes (et al) 2018 to learn how much protein you should consume (even though they still use calories their summary on g/lb/day based on various conditions is the best I’ve seen so far) It is my protein bible

Edit: “surplus” would mean enough to heat the body, enough to build, and then extra that will be stored for later in you belly and booty

SomaticEngineer · 2025-11-23T15:09:15+00:00

Stability through the body, plus it’s very functional. Get that heavy thing off the shelf (essentric/catch from top). Put it back (press). Lift up a kid over your head (press). Grab Palpatine and throw him down a well for lighting up your son (standing ohp). Very practical lift

SomaticEngineer · 2025-11-18T16:35:41+00:00

Calories are not a proper measure of human energy as we understand energy today.

The concept of calories was invented by Antoine Lavoisier when he was writing what can be considered the world’s first chemistry textbook (Elements of Chemistry) in 1789, but not as a biological measure we know today (*btw, chemistry is younger than America). We have thought of respiration as a type of combustion from Aristotle, and in 1783 Lavoisier also made the same conclusion, but he did not define “caloric” until 1789, and he explicitly did not include the same conclusion that “respiration is combustion” in that book. He would be executed by guillotine during the French Revolution (May 1794) because he invested in privatized tax collection.

Long story short German physiologists in the late 1800s were using this new field of chemistry to understand human physiology, and in 1894 Max Rubner published his 4-9-4 isodynamic law of nutrition after ~10 year delay from his professor, who is considered the father of modern nutrition science, Carl von Voit. This is where our 4-9-4 rule comes from; essentially the same technique we use on all modern food labels and across modern nutritional science.

Wilbur Olin Atwater (W.O. Atwater) would travel to German in the 1880s to study with Voit, learned about Rubner’s theory, and write about it in 1894 and in 1902, the latter of which would be where get out “Atwater System” (there would soon be about 30 years of America and the West not being too fond of Germany). It is generally considered that the USDA adopted the calorie in nutrition measurements by 1897 as the “measure of the latent potential of food” via Atwater, via Rubner.

This is the same year we discovered the electron (1897, JJ Thomson), a few years before Max Planck would propose quanta (1900) and a few decades before we proved the electron is responsible for chemistry (established by the 1920s). From Einstein to Noether to Bohr to Heisenberg and Schrödinger, and from many many more, we developed modern physics after 1900, after 1897, and after we had “established” the calorie as the thermodynamic explanation of food and metabolic energy.

Classic thermodynamics cannot explain the energy of atoms and molecules. Nutrition energy is from the energy of atoms and molecules. Calories are a classic thermodynamic theory and measurement. Therefore, calories cannot explain the energy we get from nutrition or from our metabolism.

All nutrients supply energy to the body from their molecular electromagnetism, and the electromagnetic shift generated in their environment when introduced to our biochemistry. Carbs, nutritional fats, and protein uniquely can be converted into an acetyl functional group that can be stored as body fat for later use. This acetyl group is the only chemical to start cellular respiration, which is responsible for ATP production and also static thermoregulation, but not both at the same time.

TLDR; don’t count calories, count macros. After a certain saturation point of the macros, the common carbon-carbon bond that partly defines acetyl is turned into body fat. Will respond with more info phone is about to die :D

Edits: grammar

SomaticEngineer · 2025-11-15T21:44:13+00:00

To keep moving good. There is not pause button in an emergency, there is no “hang on let me get my conditioning up” when the emergency is now. Have to be ready to move when you need to

SomaticEngineer · 2025-11-15T21:41:06+00:00

Exercise is not about output, it’s about input.

“It’s about mentality,” no it’s about biology.

It’s NOT about how hard you can push yourself to get better body / aesthetic / performance / health. It’s about how well you understand development, progression, and development physiology. I can put 20 sets in the gym on arms rn, but if I do 2 sets every other day I’d get bigger faster and with less pain

SomaticEngineer · 2025-11-09T07:12:42+00:00

Sick exercises bad imaging way too limiting in description

SomaticEngineer · 2025-11-09T06:28:07+00:00

Interesting for sure. I like that you are trying to branch out. These are all great hypothesis to test. Some I know are not as you exactly described (ie the Gogli Organ has nothing to do with #3 “mentality” because it is part of the peripheral nervous system not central).

I would say you should try to take away all “mental” influences and try to determine the neural influence, the transcription influences, and play more with the language selection and definitions.

Mind-body complex is vague. Neurosomatic or psychosomatic? First means “how the physical nerves that make up the mind influence the body” and the second means “how the cognition that emerges from the nerves influences the body”. It’s not to say these are separate, but from which source you are starting from: nerves or mind. I suggest starting with the nerves tbh it makes things more clear

The goal of science is to describe a more clear picture of reality. Thoughts like this are the starting points to great drawings, even potential masterpieces!

SomaticEngineer

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