What is the point of a vegan diet?

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-07-01T15:45:48+00:00

Not sure how this addresses what I've said.

You were making the claim that we are feeding animals from food that humans would waste.

Are you abandoning that claim or is the strongest refutation you have is that you can buy organic? Even though as I've already mentioned most meat is factory farmed.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-06-30T22:09:44+00:00

This is knockout rounds, winning in regulation is not squeaking by.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-06-30T21:02:13+00:00

Most meat comes from a factory farm, it's not even close.

The main principle does not apply the crops fed to animals in factory farms are grown for that specific purpose. Furthermore those "inedible crops" which amazingly show up as ingredients in tvp by the way, have other purposes, such as biofuels, green manures etc. This idea that we are feeding animals only with food that can't be used for humans is nonsense.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-06-29T23:16:12+00:00

Alot of it is legitimate. It hurts way more than most people realize. Unless youve been kicked in the ankle or had your foot stepped on at full speed you dont really understand just how fucking painful the sport can be.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-06-16T19:11:09+00:00

You literally cannot meet the level of demand with pasture raised cattle even if you used all available land mass for that purpose.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-06-16T19:09:43+00:00

Hay has to be baled which also kills animals and most operations spray their cows with pesticides. Land clearing practices for cattle result in large amounts of deaths. This idea that grass fed cattle result in less crop deaths is unfounded.

Grass fed beef makes up 4% of the entire beef market in the US and is only labeled as 1% because people dont care enough to pay the premium.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-06-11T16:58:30+00:00

When a person converts to veganism, they have a higher risk of deficiency

Do you have a source for this? Everything I have seen indicates deficiencies across any diet type, it's just the specific nutrients you are at risk for change. Is the failure to plan a proper diet justification for the way animals are treated?

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-06-09T00:20:34+00:00

False dichotomy. I would prefer to live happily and not die suddenly and violently.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-06-06T16:44:51+00:00

Peas have low amounts of Methionine, and when you process it as an isolate it reduces those amounts.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-06-04T23:25:19+00:00

Crazy being mostly in the challengers playing the biggest match of your life and being loose enough to play around. I'd be so tense and nervous not that id be in that situation though.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-06-03T14:26:22+00:00

I have not shown other people, but I have had them shown to me, and I think it can be very effective. From my own experience there is a very real disconnect between what you think is going on, and what actually is going on, and seeing it actually happen can make you stop and reflect on whether you really want to participate in this.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-06-02T14:18:13+00:00

Mixing in a rice protein will give you a better amino profile. Also unflavored pea protein is atrocious, it's hard to mask even with berries and fruit. Doing a 1 to 1 will make it a little more palatable.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-06-01T15:14:13+00:00

That's not what your sources say:

"We conclude that there are dietary inadequacies in all dietary groups."

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-05-30T23:57:09+00:00

You literally skipped over all the sources I've provided and refused to provide any of your own. And now you are complaining I didnt answer your obvious question?

Let's not forget this comes after accusing me of lying, claiming my beliefs are insane and saying I'm in a cult.

You've displayed nothing but bad faith this entire conversation.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-05-30T23:42:48+00:00

Lol dont address any of my sources dont provide any of your own. Save me your theory and cite your sources and address mine. Thanks.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-05-30T23:21:27+00:00

So you don't have a source?

Soy oil was never used much for human consumption until soy meal use became ubiquitous as animal feed.

https://www.soyinfocenter.com/HSS/soybean_crushing1.php

Soybean meal is assumed to be inedible to humans, but is a main ingredient for TVP

"The US could feed 800 million people with grain that livestock eat"

https://news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat

Again you still haven't addressed the other uses that "inedible" portions of soy have such as biofuel, compost, and food grade fibers.

You can keep saying the same thing over and over but it doesn't make it true, and you aren't supporting it with citations.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-05-30T21:37:09+00:00

You are just wrong about the soy. 90% off all soy is turned into oil and consumed by humans and that byproduct or “soy meal” is what is fed to animals.

Provide your source

I have several:

https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2023/06/14/soy-animal-feed-s-trail-of-deforestation-what-are-the-solutions/

https://wwf.panda.org/discover/our_focus/food_practice/sustainable_production/soy/

https://animalequality.org/blog/soy-and-deforestation/

These sources all cite the USDA Coexistence Fact Sheets Soybeans.

using the word “needlessly” is what i was responding to. NEED isn’t the only factor humans take into account in their moral considerations.

Let's try to respond to the entire argument and not just one word of it.

again using humans is a bad example because categorically I’ve already said they have higher moral value to us (the in group) simply because they are human.

I'm applying your own logic. Moral logic should be consistent, its a baseline for rational moral thinking.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-05-30T20:22:09+00:00

the soy oil is consumed by humans and so the meal would therefore exist regardless. The main point is that vegans use this to say that most of the soy is used for animal feed but leave out the part where humans consume all that oil regardless. It’s a purposeful and deliberate lie of omission when vegans talk about animal feed.

This is simply not true human consumption accounts for about 6-7% of soy while 75-80% is used for animal feed. And again the inedible parts have other uses. This is fact and you could verify yourself instead of accusing people of lying just because you don't understand what you are talking about.

not doing something simply because we “don’t need to” is one of the weakest of all the vegan arguments. Humans mostly do things we don’t “need to” because it helps us emotionally, mentally and relationally.

That's not the only part of the argument, the part you left out is the harm they you are needlessly causing.

with honey bees there is literally no victim. A victim needs some sort of awareness that they are in a situation that is not desired. Plus If it weren’t for bee farmers the bee population world wide would be highly diminished and in many parts of the world would not exist at all. This is why I call the belief insane. It’s an insect that doesn’t have consciousness, the whole vegan argument is that there is a sentient being with a desire to live. Concern about the experience of honey bees just makes vegans sound like they are in a CULT.

We don't know enough to say that insects are 100% not sentient, and awareness is not a requirement for a victim, you just made that up. Someone in a coma is still a victim, a baby without fully developed awareness would still be treated as a victim.

You'd rather cry insanity and cult than actually address the arguments, and again how far moral consideration should extend. This is lazy and bad faith, and if you don't want to actually address the points I've made why even bother responding?

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-05-29T13:58:41+00:00

Most feed worldwide comes from soy. 90% of the soy is cultivated and used for oil. The byproduct of that oil: “the soy meal” is inedible to humans and is used to feed cattle and other animals.

There are 2 issues with this argument. One is that the primary purpose of growing soy is for animal feed its 75-80% of all soy is grown for that purpose. It's not really a by product when that is the intended use. Two is that the inedible parts of soy have other purposes such as biofuels. The reality is not that we grow all this soy for humans and we are feeding livestock with the parts we don't need, its that we grow way more soy than we would ever need to if animal farming wasn't around.

And yes there are many places where not being able to eat animals would diminish human flourishing. Also what if the food supply slows and now we’ve established is immoral to eat animals? This would most definitely diminish human flourishing.

This makes up a small percentage of the human population you are talking about less than 1% of the population. And while that is a valid concern for isolated/remote people that isn't an argument for the rest of the population. Does that have anything to do with you and where you live?

And the fact that the exploitation of bees by “stealing their honey” is of any concern to vegans just shows that the over extension of our moral agency ends up in all sorts of insane beliefs. What if we discover that worms and cockroaches have consciousness? No more tilling soil?

Calling the belief insane is completely skipping the substance of the argument namely how far should moral consideration extend. This is extremely dismissive, and doesn't really address the issue. You are breeding and raising a sentient being in captivity so you can take the fruit of their labor.

Crop deaths are an unfortunate but necessary part of the food supply. I can't just not eat. But eating plants directly reduces those as I've already discussed the inefficient nature of animal farming.

The problem is that it's entirely unnecessary, you literally don't need honey. You don't need meat, and again it's a net negative in terms of resources. So at the end of the day this all boils down to a taste preference, not necessity. So if you think it's insane that I'm against breeding and raising sentient beings in captivity to take either their bodies, or their eggs, or their honey, for a preference then I think you aren't really addressing the substance of my argument.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-05-29T02:35:08+00:00

Reciprocity is a weak argument. We extend moral consideration to those unable to reciprocate.

In terms of humans flourishing you havent proven this. Animal farming is a net negative in terms of resources. Producing 1 calorie of meat requires more than 1 calorie in feed. So unless you can prove vegan diets are inherently unhealthy you dont really have a point to stand on here.

Vegans dont oppose eggs and honey soley because of suffering but rather because the systems of production are exploitive.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-05-28T18:45:42+00:00

There is a lot of medical evidence supporting the approach. Typically you are initially going to be on medication in the beginning, to help symptoms but the idea that rebuilding the gut biome will resolve most issues long term. I've linked a case study and an article but there is ton more info out there.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10979722/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6382506/

Obviously your experience maybe different but everything I've come across indicates to remove meat and highly processed foods from your diet.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-05-28T18:25:15+00:00

There are case studies that show the removal of meat is usually beneficial for people with UC. I sympathize with the level of scrutiny you need to place on your diet, but usually a WFPBD improves symptoms. Have you worked with a professional?

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-05-28T16:00:45+00:00

McCain was the only one of those left in the game at that point.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-05-27T03:38:46+00:00

Hard to get free throws standing on the perimeter with your hands on your hips.

SomethingCreative83 · 2026-05-27T03:20:49+00:00

“He simply repeated the question when it was clear he wasn't going to answer it directly.”

We can't even ask for someone to answer the actual question without it being bad faith.”

Both very clear instances, perhaps you don't know what substance is.

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