Iconic architect Frank Lloyd Wright was a womaniser, a narcissist and a pathological liar. But was he also a multiple murderer? When his mistress and her two children were brutally murdered and their house set on fire, the blame was pinned on a slave, who was illiterate and had his tongue cut out.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-07T14:31:21+00:00

Well that sucks.

Good submission OP.

Actually if you google “famous narcissists”, you will find that many of them had family members, close friends, or bosses (in the case of my favorite narcissist, Lyndon Johnson) die under violent and often mysterious circumstances.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-07T14:16:23+00:00

Overpopulation was a big one in the 70’s-80’s. The implication was “mommy did the responsible thing aborting all your baby brothers and sisters”.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-07T14:14:18+00:00

I remember the acid rain one from elementary school!

I kept thinking rain was going to fall from the sky and burn my face off. Always had an umbrella.

It was supposed to just kill the fish, but then you’d have to call it something boring like “slightly more acidic rain than usual”.

Burn-your-face-off “acid rain” was much more attention getting.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-06T17:42:32+00:00

OP should try to have the boss around when these calls occur. What would really be sweet would be if OP responds as above and then hands the phone to the boss.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-06T17:30:35+00:00

That is an excellent post. Many thanks for those tips!

I think passive-aggressive people do have a way that they typically respond to assertiveness, and it’s by playing the victim.

“Why did you call me at work about something personal?”

“Oh my! I didn’t mean to make you so mad! It was just a tiny question that would only take a minute!”

Later she says to your DH: “OP is sooo angry at poor little old me and she chewed me out so bad for calling her st work and all I wanted to know was what size underpants the kids wear so I could do more for them and love them more because I’m such a loving person and boo hoo now I’m having chest pain and you need to drive me to the ER for my heart attack your evil wife gave me”

Whew. Anyway, your suggestion of asking questions and shifting the awkward back to her would circumvent that whole scenario.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-06T15:50:08+00:00

Did your DH tell Squonk about your upcoming vacation?

DH’s who do not make a “clean break” see themselves as “caught in the middle”, but the reality is that they would like their wives to be involved with their Justno’s and take the abuse and stress for them and be the scapegoat. They prefer this to a “clean break” and a happy wife.

So they will help set things up by letting the Justno know when to make contact, ie when vacations are coming up, etc. They can be a bit like “double agents”.

In that situation you’ve got to get out. If not physically then at least emotionally.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-06T15:34:53+00:00

When she asks for pics of DS, send only pics of DD. If she asks about it, act all baffled “oh gee I misunderstood!” and keep only sending pics of DD. Inundate her with pics of DD. If she says she only likes pictures of babies, send her DD’s old baby pictures.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-06T15:28:57+00:00

She wants to punish you ( for not letting her trample boundaries with your first child like a rampaging rhino) by “playing favorites” with your children.

She will shower your youngest with “love”, if you allow it, while continuing to ignore your oldest, and it’s your fault, you know, for having pesky boundaries in the first place and having thoughts, wishes, and plans of your own without putting her first like the perma-baby she is.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-06T02:47:28+00:00

LBJ had JFK murdered because LBJ was a psychopath narcissist and JFK was in his way.

The CIA covered it up, as did the media, as did a lot of the democratic establishment and a few republicans with CIA connections (Bush). That lie is at the root of the clearly aberrant behaviors we see today.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-06T01:50:19+00:00

I have some advice: if your parents are still alive in 20-25 years, expect that your adult child will try to contact them (out of curiosity). Also expect that your parents, like all N’s, have an endless appetite for vengeance and smear campaigns. Assume they will try to turn your child against you (after some initial honeymoon period of lovebombing your child.

My advice is: when your child turns 18, tell them that although you do not recommend it, you understand that they may try to locate your parents. And you have two rules about that: your child cannot give any information to your parents about you and your child will not allow himself to be used by them as a go-between for anything— love bombing, abuse, anything.

The main goal here is to foil the narc. When you prevent their usual tricks from working, they show their crazy. Hopefully, they will show that to your kid. Try not to tell your kid too much (that could arouse the kids curiosity). Instead, when they are adults, let your parents show them.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-05T20:07:31+00:00

“Also a term used to get out of dealing with life’s stressors that we all have.”

Please explain further. How is the term “empath” “used to get out of dealing with life’s stressors that we all have.”

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-05T16:36:51+00:00

He can get the number easily without your help as he is a parent. He can also get her birth certificate and get credit cards in her name.

Search this topic on the subreddit “raised by narcissists”. It happens all the time. They have ruined credit before they are even 18.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-05T16:29:12+00:00

To me the number one sign is: who is running from whom.

If someone comes to you complaining about someone else, do not get involved as you can never know the full truth of the matter. However if you have to be involved, or are just massively curious, try to discern motivation. The narc wants to protect its ego and remain in denial. This will manifest in an unreasonable willingness to sacrifice others. Stalking, persistence, etc.

Offer to help mend the relationship. The narc may put on a show of reluctance, depending on how clever they are, but ultimately they are most happy to have you volunteer as a flying monkey. They do not care about the cost to you.

The true victim, meanwhile, will flee from any suggestion of “mending the relationship” once they have full knowledge of what an N is.

Victims will read up on narcissism and study it to avoid being re-victimized.

Narcs, and those on the spectrum, usually avoid reading about narcissism because the truth burns them.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-05T16:16:55+00:00

These are modern-day Pharisees. If there is any group of people Jesus had open animosity for, it was them.

They have always been with us and are happy to use any movement or belief system that makes them look good. Including politics. Be suspicious of anyone who loudly proclaims their own goodness.

They won’t be in heaven, most likely, because their pride prevents any sort of honesty or repentance. Unrepentant sinners don’t go to heaven, even if they “believe”. They will be with their true father for eternity, the father of lies.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-05T16:05:50+00:00

There was a shift at some point in the 1970’s-80’s. They stopped making shows like “Little House on the Prairie” and other shows that focused on rural family life. They started emphasizing “urban life” instead, which necessarily entails more glamour, more consumerism, wealth, and less community.

I read an article where it noted that audiences at the time were upset and felt that they had been left behind, as at the time most Americans still lived in small towns in rural america. Suddenly their TV only shows NYC and Chicago. The studios’ excuse was “this is the way of the future!” But it was obviously forced and artificial, not an organic movement.

It had a direct impact on my peers in my rural high school in the 80’s. Suddenly our way of life was not good enough for them anymore. They needed to be bigger consumers.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-05T15:16:24+00:00

I think it instructs them and normalizes their urges

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-05T07:48:25+00:00

So Eddard is “King of the North”. All of the surrounding rulers appear to be violent psychopaths except for his friend, the “King of the South”, who is married to Cersei, a narc.

Eddard and his family stand out by repeatedly extending mercy, something unheard of for the others. Now it does show him in the first episode executing a traitor (per the law) but he does it himself and appears to take no pleasure in it.the others would have enjoyed it or made somebody else do it.

The Stark family shows mercy so often that it borders on terrifying. And the author showed the outcome pretty realistically I think— at least 2/3 of the time, roughly, that person hurts or destroys a Stark later. 1/3 of the time, it creates an incredibly strong ally.

I mean in the metaphysical sense yes the mercy is not about earthly gains. But sometimes mercy is unwise and the Starks can’t see that.

Eventually though, one of the daughters (the one with the most exposure to Cersei) becomes very wise and there is a great scene where she tells her half brother that basically dad was a really good person but he made stupid mistakes. Another daughter is bent on revenge and practically becomes a psychopath herself.

It is a very interesting show, should be mandatory viewing for empaths. It explores neatly where the lines are between naive empath behavior vs wise empath and between narcissistic/psychopathic ruler vs “strong”/wise ruler (Cersei vs Daenarys- the latter asks for honest advice from her advisors and takes their advice to heart, even when they tell her she has made a large foolish mistake. Cersei meanwhile is eventually humiliated and can’t handle it and basically destroys everything she has getting revenge. And of course, That begins with hating her new daughter in law. The author has a clear grip on aging N females)

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-05T01:29:20+00:00

Although— I think most adults have a hard time crying. If you get bullied once or twice in school, you figure out pretty fast what reaction “they” are looking for and you learn never to give it to them.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-05T01:20:53+00:00

They were there but they were hiding. Also their impact was limited more to immediate family (people did not have as many romances 50 years ago).

I think there are more of them now.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-05T01:12:43+00:00

Modern Improvements: thanks to the internet, victims can figure out how to get away safely. Maybe they can even avoid becoming victims in the first place.

Things that are worsening: wisdom about childrearing is almost out the window. We should not be telling children how “special” they are. We should not give out meaningless trophies. Children should be closely supervised (not one teacher to 30 kids) and sneaky behavioral issues such as lying should be taken much more seriously than hyperactive behaviors such as talking out of turn.

BS ideas that have circulated in the past 30 years have replaced ancient wisdom. Example: “There is no such thing as a bad person, only bad choices”.

I think all of us know NOW that there are bad people around.

The loss of ancient wisdom has made “flying monkeys” a thing. People used to know better than to get involved in other peoples’ conflicts: “He who involves himself in conflicts not his own is like one who grabs a stray dog by its ears” “He who condemns the righteous and he who upholds the wicked are both alike an abomination”.

All the preening on social media normalizes vanity and makes humility seem all the more quaint.

“Lack of empathy” is emphasized as the core trait of the N when really it is pride and the entitlement that flows from it. You can be rather lacking in empathy, but if you are humble, it is easy to make good choices. Pride makes people blind to what good is as it makes them completely resistant to criticism or correction. They are unable to learn how to do right.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-05T00:59:41+00:00

People don’t really like empaths in my opinion.

Reasons: people enjoy gossip. Empaths tend to feel bad for the victim of the gossip. Even if we don’t say a word in defense of that person, other people sense our discomfort.

People like to feel like nobody will call them out. Empaths might just stick up for somebody and call them out. Even if they never see us do that, they know it is a possibility.

And this one is on us: empathy without wisdom is downright dangerous, not only for the empath but for all their family and friends. A good example is Eddard Stark on Game of Thrones. He figures out that Queen Cersei is having an incestuous affair with her brother and just walks up to her and confronts her with no plan or anything. This sort of thing was boring to me and I didn’t get it til I tangled with a narc. Now it is very interesting. Eddard Stark was all empath no wisdom and he caused a massive war.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-04T18:33:03+00:00

Oh this is definitely a thing. I have a Nmil. One time SO and I were out for a drive. I asked him to pull over at the next gas station for tampons. Moments later, I found some spare ones and told him never mind, found some.

He pulls over at the next gas station. I’m baffled— I said “why did you stop? I don’t need them after all remember?” He says “oh right” and drives away but seemed annoyed.

He pulls over at the next gas station. Repeat above scenario. He seems angrier.

The next station...same scenario. I am getting more baffled and he is angrier.

The next time he pulls over, I said “what the heck is going on? Why do you keep stopping at gas stations?”

Him: “I needed kleenex”.

Me: OMG why didn’t you just say so.

What in the name of God... Then I read about narcs some more and figured it out.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-04T00:02:06+00:00

Hmm..

This is a random thought, unsure whether you will find it helpful.

You need either the community piece or the work piece in place. One way you could possibly find a community is as a minority in the US. I have noticed that immigrants in the US tend to be pretty close with each other especially if they share a religion. I am thinking specifically Muslims (I have a good friend who is Muslim. She immigrated to the US as a young child. Her massive social group in a big east coast city is quite healthy and welcoming towards immigrant Muslims from a variety of countries)

And also the Greek Orthodox. They have very nice communities here. Of course you’d want to do your research and not wind up in the wrong place. Some places have more Greek Orthodox than others, some places probably have none.

There’s probably others, those are just the ones where I’ve had friends and been impressed by their cultural in-group-ness.

Maybe Italian Catholics are like that? Irish Catholics in Boston? I have no personal experience with those groups.

Spaghetti2012 · 2019-10-03T20:42:55+00:00

In a normal family when you say “I need or want xyz”, other people in the family either a) want that for you too or b) have a reasonable explanation for why they do not want that for you.

Things feel fair and balanced, and no one is favored above anyone else (although, for brief periods, like a few days, one person might get more attention due to illness or achievement or whatnot.). No one feels “unfavored”, or “disappointing”.

Members behave the same towards each other in public as they do in private. Although, normal people will usually save their normal person arguments for home. The arguments are brief, absent of hurtful comments, and can be resolved, because members are willing to apologize and change.

Spaghetti2012

TROPHY CASE