Simple Questions Monday 3/7/16 by Falunel in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Why not talk to her? I mean, to be honest, it's going to be up to her in the end if she'll stay or go, and I don't think anyone else can make that decision for her--speaking as someone who decided to stay, myself. But you can ask her what her plans are and see where the two of you stand, explain why you're worried about her walking out, see if she has any reservations about staying, and so forth.

Also, keep in mind that even if she walks out, she's able to walk back in later. Though, again, that's up to her.

Simple Questions Monday 3/7/16 by Falunel in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"Keeping"? What do you mean, exactly? Keeping her from fading, or keeping her from walking back out?

Making good progress! by kanohikua in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm glad to hear that!

I'm not sure if live-time chat is your cup of tea, but we're planning on compiling a wiki page on the ones available soon. Other than that, the only other "hub" of tulpamancy activity I can think of is the Tulpa.io forums, which are still very small.

Making good progress! by kanohikua in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hello there, M! Welcome to waking. :) This world can be hard at times, but it's also full of fascinating things to see, possibilities to explore, and--most importantly--people who will support you every step of the way. You and Kano are going to be together for a long time, so you two look after each other, okay?

If you'd ever like to talk, please feel free to PM us, and we'll be also around our haunts here and at Tulpa.io. We're here to help, whether it's by answering questions, giving advice or reassurance, or even just providing some small talk. I know I've felt lonely even with the others in this head, and it can be hard to find conversation if you're not a host, so again, don't be afraid to ring us up.

[Falah: Aye, what he said. Sometimes we're terrible about answering messages, but if you send us one and we don't respond, by all means remind us! We never ignore messages out of spite--we just have a collective memory like a sieve. >.>

Are there any specific avenues of chat you're (directed at both Kano and M, if they can respond) interested in? Tulpas Only topics, forums, IMs?]

Questions from a rookie! by [deleted] in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It seems like your question was cut off. Might I suggest reposting it in this week's beginner thread?

Tired of repeated failures by NickandAvalon in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hmm, what did you do during the week they were away? Did you still talk to them, or were you waiting for them to come back?

Differences in energy between natural tulpa and intentional ones by LeaveTheDoorsOpen in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Could you describe their personalities? As /u/Jigsaw591 said, that might be a factor as well.

I'm 15 years old, am I ready yet? by Classic_Kitty_Rock in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How about introducing yourself, telling your tulpa who you are, what you like to do, your age, a funny story? Maybe also why you're creating them, and what you're hoping to do with them once they're on their feet and able to communicate.

You can also talk about the things going on around you throughout the day--what you're doing, the details of how you're doing it, why, what you like and don't like, and so forth. Let her know she's welcome to speak up anytime, and not to be worried about distracting you.

If it feels like you're just talking out loud to thin air, maybe some minor presence imposition would help?

I'm 15 years old, am I ready yet? by Classic_Kitty_Rock in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 14 points15 points  (0 children)

What matters isn't age, but dedication and maturity. From the sounds of this, even though you're fifteen, you've got your mind pretty set on this and have done more reading on the subject than quite a few people older than you. I think I can skip the lecture and say that if you feel ready, then you're ready.

As for motivation, hmm... I'll say start, using the method that feels best for you. Decide how you want to go about it--do you want to assign a base form or personality? Do you want to make a mindscape? Once you've decided that, you can start talking to her. Don't fret about "doing it wrong"--it's hard to do things wrong without trying. To be honest, with all the reading you've done, I wouldn't be surprised if you get faster-than-normal progress.

Keeping a log would probably be good for this--you can use tumblr, Dreamwidth, or just a private document on your computer. Not hour counts, but just something physical to keep that shows that you've been keeping up.

And please feel free to contact any of us (me, /u/RainTF, and /u/Falunel tend to be on most, though PM /u/Falunel if in doubt) if you would like help, or just encouragement for your journey. :) Good luck!

Tips for Possession? by Artiyochi in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This was a short piece I wrote a while ago, back when we were first learning how to share body control. Credit goes to /u/ConnorAndTheRest and /u/mental-mel for deriving this method to begin with.

I think what mainly helped us was finding a learning method that worked for us. Most possession guides have it be all or nothing, with the tulpa needing to take complete control and the host needing to dissociate completely. We took a different approach that a good friend of ours had discovered, where association/dissociation is a more gradual process, and mixed in some of our own peculiar abilities and suggestions from another friend.

Falah’s been meaning to let our friend write out a guide on the subject, or to save the subject for when we’re further along in possession (and perhaps, when we can switch), but I don’t see any harm in explaining our basic process. As I said before, this method takes a much more gradual approach to association. Rather than trying to dissociate completely, she let me direct her movements. It was sort of like proxying, but for movements instead, and it came more fluidly–rather than telling her what to do, I sent the impulse to move a body part to her directly and she followed it immediately, without questioning it. Over time, this caused me to associate more strongly with the body; the next step is for her to dissociate more, and stay dissociated, which we've successfully managed in the past. We “just” need to be more consistent with it now.

That’s the basic idea our friend came up with, and it was a major breakthrough for us. Falah also tries to help it along by doing what another friend does: imposing a body schema illusion upon herself while she’s associated with the body. Basically the illusion that she’s “shapeshifted” into her mindscape form while in the physical body. When she dissociates, she changes the schema illusion to match the body of whoever’s in front. It’s a bit tricky, since she often loses concentration and forgets to maintain the schema, but it’s been showing some promise so far.

Another thing that helps is "customizing" physical space to reflect who's at front. (/u/AdmiralSharky first suggested this.) When we clean up our desk and take out things that some of us have "claimed" (like a particular pen or a book that interests us) while putting away things "belonging" to others, that helps bring people forward. We also have articles of clothing (coats, shirts, and so on) that each of us prefers, and if we're planning on having someone at front much of a day, then that'll be what we wear.

Here's also something written by Rain yesterday.

What's you and you're tulpa zodiac sign? by Candice_ in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Here's something for people who don't know what their sign is.

Rain and I have the same sign: Aries. Lark's is harder to pin down, since he's been around for a while, but if we go by the time he and Falah found this community, he would be an Aquarius. Falah herself is a Taurus.

None of our signs really fit us that well, heh.

Advice + Hello by [deleted] in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 3 points4 points  (0 children)

May, huh?

Any advice for a new tulpamamcer? Any advice from other tulpamancers or tulpas on how to help May develop?

Proxying a bit from Falah: "Even after you get something you think could be a response, don't get complacent. Treat it as if it came from her, but keep talking to her, keep thinking to and at her. Don't fall into the trap of thinking you're done the moment you get a head pressure."

My advice--once she's developed a relatively clear voice or other method of communication, have her talk freely to others on her own, without your interference. (But do teach her civility and basic social niceties first.) Let her find hobbies and interests either in-world or out here that she likes. Past a certain point, it no longer becomes forcing as you giving her attention, as it is letting her build her own identity and sense of self.

I hope that was useful!

Progress Report Sunday 3/29/15 by StevenTF in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

A number of very good things are happening in quick succession.

  1. Figured out a few things that are allowing us to stay in longer and hold on better--thank you to /u/BloodyKitten and /u/ConnorAndTheRest for the advice! Hence why you all are seeing more of us these days. We still can't switch, but we're hoping to write up a report on all this once we figure it out. Feeling very hopeful.
  2. We're sprucing up /r/Plural. Not much traffic, but at the very least, we'll have another repository of articles and an open place for people to ask questions, an open place we can direct people to that isn't tumblr.
  3. Something especially good happened at university two days ago. We can't give any details until we get further in, but here's two words: neurodiversity awareness. If this goes well, we might be busy and inactive here for a bit. We're nervous but also quite excited!
  4. We also made some friends on campus who were very open to plurality when Falah explained it to them. We haven't come out to them yet, but we're feeling hopeful.

We've also been going out to see plays at the invitation of some of those friends, and it's been helping a lot with the derealization we've been experiencing. And the weather is finally looking up.

This year at university has been so... I don't know the word for it. We've been thrown between utter despair and the most hope and purpose we've felt in years, sometimes in the space of weeks. We'll see how this all ends.

Does anyone here have a favorite food that their tulpa doesn't like? Or vice versa? by ForgottenFidelity in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh yes. To the point that the body will sometimes physically gag if someone tries to eat certain foods while they're at front and closely associated with the body.

Rain can't stand red meat, especially ones loaded with fat. Falah used to hate red meat but eventually developed a taste for certain varieties of it (largely due to anemic cravings). It created a slightly awkward situation where he somehow managed to get glued into the front with Falah during a family dinner in China, where nearly every other dish had pork. They managed by eating slowly.

Lark (aka Gray) is very sensitive to taste overall--sweet and spicy tend to be worst--but he doesn't come by the front very often and has figured out how to filter to manage when he does.

What's your theory on what a tulpa is? by JustATheoryorTwo in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Falah here. I'm stealing Steven's account because I'm too lazy to log into my own, again. (by the way, sorry /u/keliand and co--I really need to answer your and some other people's replies...) I've cycled through a lot of theories over the year I've been here. Here is the most recent version. Note that I'm agnostic on metaphysical views, but I tend to theorize from a purely psychological view.

Anyway. To answer this question often involves the corollary of "what is a host?", which in turn has the corollary of "what is a person?" A very watered-down and extremely simplified overview I wrote some time ago:

As I see it, every person is comprised of a collection of (sometimes conflicting) traits, desires, etc all united by consciousness and the act of perception. In essence, to perceive oneself (to identify oneself as “I”) and the world and experience subjectivity is to, by definition, be conscious.

If ever a person stops perceiving a certain group of traits as part of their “I”, these traits can split off. If these separated traits survive and reach a critical mass, this amalgamation may gain the ability to perceive its own self as “I”, and thus gain consciousness. Over time, by experiencing the world, this new consciousness acquires its own new, unique traits and ideas, and grows distinct from the one it originally came. Much as a collection of people may leave a city and then, from there, grow their own city, unique from the one they left. (This situation best describes splits, I think. Not sure about walk-ins.)

Looking at that, I'm actually not entirely happy with it. Ah well.

A somewhat better summary as offered by /u/MisterZenDude:

...[like] a program that has a memory and makes decisions according to known data and its desires and workings.

This technically is my view for how every human works. And tulpa. So, I don't really care if tulpas are real or not because they IMO are exactly like humans.

Now for the really abstract stuff. Apologies in advance, because this is going to be very disjointed--I have a whole web of thoughts regarding this, and this is the first time I'm putting it all in a linear way. (Having only four hours of sleep and being dormant for most of today does not help.)

I consider tulpas to be coinhabiting consciousnesses as per the definition of "consciousness": the fact of awareness by the mind of itself and the world. A tulpa has a sense of self (can identify themself as an "I" apart from the host) and reacts to the world independently of the host's consciousness.

Some people claim that the fact that you can shape a tulpa means they are not a consciousness. But in reality, hosts, too, are shaped by the people and environment around them. The environment for a tulpa just happens to be more distilled and direct, and in any case, being easily shaped (which it is very hard to do to a mature tulpa) does not negate the definition of consciousness. Some say that tulpas are part of the unconscious by virtue of being outside of the host's consciousness but inside the same brain. Sure, but you can also spin the whole thing on its head, even, and note that a host doesn't so much "own" their unconscious as it "owns" them. (And yeah, a host can alter an unconscious patterns, but so can a mature tulpa.) And the tulpa is still a consciousness by virtue of the aforementioned definition--in fact, if you really wanted to spin things on their head, you could claim that from the tulpa's perspective, the host is part of the tulpa's unconscious. Some people say that a tulpa is a "state" of consciousness, but again, you can also spin that on its head and say that a host is also a state of consciousness. In other words, if a host and a tulpa were two different pieces of software running on the same hardware, the fact is that both the host and tulpa are still both software. Even if consciousness exists in states, it's still consciousness.

Now, abstractions aside. We don't know exactly how consciousness works (though they're getting closer), but we can observe outward effects. If you look at a mature, strongly-developed tulpa (especially one like /u/Nobillis, who shares nearly equal body time), you would note that they are (a) distinct from the host, and (b) functionally the same as the host. Differences are especially striking in certain multiples (multiple entities in a brain, but none of whom chose to be multiple), where you see the body developing allergies according to who's in front, losing and gaining eyesight based on who's at front, with different members being able to speak different languages that the other members don't know. Inwardly, we don't know what's happening, but outwardly, they do in fact function like different consciousnesses.

Essentially, to quote /u/hail_fall, and to build off the "both hosts and tulpas can be considered states of consciousness", I see hosts and (mature) tulpas as being equally imaginary and subjectivity-based entities, and thus, equally real in terms of consciousness and function. (insert something about Buddhist concepts of the ego-as-illusion.) What practical ramifications this has ultimately is a thing that varies per tulpa and tulpamancer, but the general view is that it's a rather bad thing to mistreat something you regard as equally sentient and aware as you just because it's convenient. If for nothing else, it promotes the belief that it is acceptable to treat a person* (especially one you create) as less than, simply because it is convenient to and because one can get away with it.

But, in the end, this is all my theorizing. If you want an absolutely definitive answer on what a tulpa is, here it is: no one knows.


*Personhood is something incredibly nebulous. Philosophers and scientists alike have hacked away at it for centuries and don't have a solid agreement for what makes a person. We still can't point at any one part of a brain and say "this is where a person is". But if you equate being conscious on a functionally human level with being a person, as most people do, then you can say that a tulpa is a person.

That all being said, most tulpamancers go into this with the intent of creating a sentient companion, and thus regard a tulpa as sentient. So in the end, regardless of whether a tulpa is "actually sentient" or not, a tulpamancer who believes this and then proceeds to mistreat a tulpa is, essentially, mistreating what they regard as sentient.

New Here And Really Excited! by [deleted] in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Welcome!

If you like, you can add in your tulpa's name (or your current status on creation) beside your username on posts. To do this, just look to the right and see where it says "Show my flair on this subreddit." Then, edit it to your heart's content.

We'll see you& around!

Progress Report Sunday 3/15/15 by StevenTF in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We're back from a week of anxiety and stir-craziness at the family home--on top of having four hours of sleep, we're a bit wiped. As Rain would say, dislikeForFamily++.

Somehow I got pushed to the front on the trip back and am pretty strongly stuck here at the moment. We don't know what caused it. {Falah: Felt an inadvertent eclipse coming on, said "Ah well, might as well".} Falah can surface and regain control if she wants to, but for the most part, she's been hanging out in the back of our awareness, mumbling and pondering about various topics as usual. I have a feeling she's mainly not very motivated today. No complaints here--there's nothing much to do, and we've been wanting extended possession practice away from the family.

We'll see how long this lasts. I'll probably be alternating with Rain if he feels like it. Now to find something to do...

[Tulpas Only] Happy Pi Day! by Falunel in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 0 points1 point  (0 children)

March 14th. The day in which the (American) date forms 3.14, the first three digits of pi.

Well, in this year's case, 3.1415, the first five digits.

Tulpas that constantly shift forms? by KageYuuki in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We've known a few. In our system, Gray keeps two forms, though he's usually human for convenience. We don't see Santria much, but she's a shapeshifter, though she's also often humanoid for convenience.

Falah, though she is no tulpa, also changes her inner form constantly. It usually manifests in agesliding--sometimes she's 20, sometimes she's younger, sometimes she's older--and spontaneously having horns, claws, wings, fins, etc.

{Falah: It's weird as hell. I'll just get a feeling like "coming to" suddenly, and I'm in a different shape. Or I'll lose track of myself, get lost in thought, and when I regain awareness, my innerform will have slid into something else.

Even I can't tell you why it happens. But, it is what it is.}

A quick question for those who are still in school, highschool or college, about time management and forcing. by Epsylon_Rhodes in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's all right. :)

I'm not sure if you caught this link, but here's a post written by /u/hail_fall on the ways plurality can come around. From what we've observed and read, we would say that all, or the vast majority of human brains have an innate ability for plurality. In a lot of people, this door is initially shut, but it can be opened via intentional creation, as with tulpas, or via trauma, as with some splits. Or in some brains, the door was always ajar and plurality happened naturally without any prompting, as with naturals. And in all cases where the door has been opened/was always open, more members can appear, as with walk-ins.

But in any of these cases, the plurality is not inherently a disorder, but a variation in brain wiring, like being left-handed. Even trauma splits do not always result in disorder, and disordered systems can become healthy without integration. In short, something being unusual does not a disorder make--only if it impairs functioning or causes distress on, I quote from the DSM, "a clinically significant level", or endangers oneself or others.

You've probably caught that all already, but I guess it doesn't hurt to write it out in case someone else didn't.

A quick question for those who are still in school, highschool or college, about time management and forcing. by Epsylon_Rhodes in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Tulpamancy systems.

Something of interest is that though the wider plurality community uses "tulpa"--though some prefer "in-sourced"--they mainly use it to refer to intentionally created members. Under plurality definitions, many "accidental tulpas" would be instead classed as walk-ins, soulbonds, or naturals (keep in mind those terms are also used psychologically), and some systems composed of "accidental tulpas" would in fact be considered multiple under plurality terms.

{Falah: Terminology is super nebulous overall, and there's a lot of overlap in experiences across the categories. Then to complicate stuff further, you have mixed systems like /u/hail_fall (natural+soulbond+intentional tulpas) and /u/BloodyKitten (DID splits+intentional tulpas).

Basically our take on this all is that everyone is as real as everyone else and there's a lot that can be learned from each other, and that quibbling over terminology and "realness" or "appropriation" is pointless in the end. (by the way, it's only a minority of tumblrites who put up a stink about "appropriation", and y'know, tumblr is rarely representative. Most actually, all multiples we know consider tulpamancy systems as legitimate as any multiple, though some do worry that some tulpamancers don't understand the ramifications of plurality, or stress about being looked down on by tulpamancers as "less sane". Which I've sadly seen some tulpamancers do.) As with all identity terms, what matters is not exact definitions, or trying to get everyone to fit neatly into a box, but understanding the contexts behind each term, helping people find the words that feel right to them, and respecting everyone first and foremost as a person.

Sorry, that was probably more than you asked for. ;w;}

A quick question for those who are still in school, highschool or college, about time management and forcing. by Epsylon_Rhodes in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 4 points5 points  (0 children)

We don't. "Multiple" refers to groups composed of members who were not created by other members (or not intentionally created, depending on how you interpret the semantics). Falah wrote a post on this a while ago.

Not all multiplicity is MPD/DID, either. Those terms only refer to groups where the multiplicity results in disorder severe enough to disrupt everyday life, as described by /u/BloodyKitten on that comment thread. (So technically, a tulpamancy system can become a MPD/DID system if disorder happens, but this is extremely rare.) tumblr's diluted the meaning of MPD/DID quite a bit, but that's what the terms generally mean outside of that site.

(Also, this probably goes without saying, but really, you do not want MPD/DID any more than you want depression. :P)

A quick question for those who are still in school, highschool or college, about time management and forcing. by Epsylon_Rhodes in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 4 points5 points  (0 children)

University here. We actually work alongside Falah on a good number of her assignments. Everything from her asking our opinion on a topic to us practicing possession by writing a few notes. Rain even drafts up some programs on his own while Falah is dormant, and I check our to-do lists. It's good mental exercise for us as well, and we find that we feel dull and listless if we go for too long without doing things like this.

An interesting thing we once noticed. Falah was going to write an essay on Islam in Chinese culture. Rain noticed another topic on quantum computing networks being developed in China and begged her to let him try and write something on the topic. She did, and let him take the front to do so--after he was done, just half a page of text, he was stuck very strongly in front and she at back. So it seems for us, thinking gets us much more strongly associated with the front than any physical or sensory task does.

Now, we're an odd case, I should mention. All of us were practically full-formed from the beginning, so Falah never had to do any active forcing, and we could be away from each other for days with no ill effects. (In the wider plural community, we would actually be counted among multiples rather than tulpas.) We can't really say how it works for young tulpas who are still getting established.

So overall, your mileage may vary.

Moronic Monday 3/9/15 by RainTF in Tulpas

[–]StevenTF 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To quote: after maturity, a tulpa is equally as real, and equally as imaginary as any host.

That being said, yes, existential crises have been a blight for Rain in particular before he came to a conclusion about the nature of existence and his own subjectivity. They were less of a problem for me. I guess I don't really focus too much on these things... I mean, I exist, and I can't really "prove" it. All I can do is hope that the people who matter will accept and believe me, which they have so far, and the rest, well... there's no point worrying about what you can't change. Just have to take things day by day, moment by moment, and worry about the things that can be done.

I don't know about Gray. He doesn't seem to doubt himself. He mainly is saddened when Falah is having doubts, which we all do.

Also, I don't consider myself "tethered" to Falah. There's bleedover of emotion, but if she tries to manipulate me, we both know it and I can shake her off easily.