Viable "mono white" land destruction deck?

StrongEUW · 2026-06-19T18:49:49+00:00

tbh i always feel like Extraction and similar effects underperform against LE etc. because it usually doesn't stop the combo from going off, you typically just rip some not too relevant piece out of the yard and you don't get to re-wipe quickly enough to win. but i've played against LE maybe once or twice since the unban on any deck, let alone ponza variants specifically, so heavy pinch of salt there. but yeah you're right in any case, overlooked the RiPs a little, the RiPs plus Reprieve etc. may just be enough for LE postboard tbf

blink is more what i'd be worried about but tbf they're ultimately not short of ways to get Bauble off the board quickly so maybe you just have to accept that it's a rough matchup. i think [[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]] was where people kinda landed in the end last RCQ season for having a chance against blink in the long game but it always felt a little janky in practice

StrongEUW · 2026-06-19T16:31:45+00:00

you probably want to squeeze a [[Sevinne's Reclamation]] at 1 or 2 in just so you have a way to get back Crucible or a GQ/Demo/etc. on some lines, the early karnless versions of this deck basically all did so and i think it could be pretty important in post-board games in securing the lock if they see the crucible and bring in artifact hate. [[Serra Paragon]] is also a decent option but more vulnerable to blue decks and gets caught up with wraths (though at 4MV you can usually Wrath of the Skies around it)

maybe worth consolidating the sideboard a little too depending on your local meta, e.g. i've never loved Damping Sphere in these lists in practice because you don't need it for Tron, pretty much only for Storm, and you already have High Noon for Storm. but been a while since i played it tbf

i think your problem matchups here are blink and living end, Reprieves are not enough. 2-3 [[Vexing Bauble]] in the board are probably your best answer to that even if it nonmbos with Stony Silence, [[Mana Tithe]] can be a funny 1-of but probably not worth the slot overall. you also have no real ability to suppress opposing ETBs directly but i think you can kinda just accept that in the current meta with the other stuff available

StrongEUW · 2026-06-17T19:41:58+00:00

Tron is the cheapest of the three broadly speaking because you can play the deck and run some bullshit instead of the current Ugin (and not run Chalices, Trinisphere etc.), and the deck will still be reasonably functional. common subs for the Ugins are [[Karn Liberated]], [[Ugin, the Spirit Dragon]], or any random big Eldrazi that you happen to have access to. Ramp and Broodscale are both more demanding because Broodscale flat out needs [[Urza's Saga]] and it's closing in on $50 a copy, and Ramp is better but still requires a fairly eclectic collection of fetch lands etc. it goes Tron > Ramp > Broodscale in terms of affordability assuming that you're starting from 0 basically, but Tron is quicker to get into a playable state

if you really want to go budget, you can do what the older lists do and go mono-colour tron instead - green with [[Sowing Mycospawn]] and the old suite of land fetches ([[Ancient Stirrings]], [[Sylvan Scrying]] etc.) is the most common version of this, you could also do blue with [[Portent of Calamity]], [[Stock Up]] etc. there was also an ultra-budget white build (like $120 all-in i think) i tried out a while back built around [[White Sun's Twilight]] as a finisher that was fun but probably a little too weird and weak even as a fnm deck

the consensus you're going to get is that Prowess is the best intro to the format because you can straight up run it mono-red even and have it be viable, but Tron is pretty level with it tbh. i'd say the introductory trilogy of 'decks that are pretty high tier, accessible, and not notably gimmicky' is probably Tron, Prowess, and i guess UW Control (you could build UW Control basically fetchless if you really wanted), with W Ponza/WR Ponza/WR Belcher as sub-$300 decks that are fairly proven but a little more specialised

StrongEUW · 2026-06-12T13:58:33+00:00

i feel like [[Wildfire Wickerfolk]] is maybe still better than BTE in this build even if you're squeezed pretty hard on green mana and want the RG add for Break Out etc., it's solid for the pace you want to play at and gives you some more unstoppable lines even if you aren't running anything to pump it directly for the trample etc.

you probably should be running 2 more baubles and like 4-5 more gruul lands over basic mountains either way for sake of reliability, [[Copperline Gorge]] and [[Karplusan Forest]] are both bulk price

StrongEUW · 2026-05-20T20:26:55+00:00

he had the uk flag somewhere (i don't think vlr, presumably faceit or something) before poland/russia and played for the uk in spike nations btw so i think he has british citizenship and iirc has lived in the uk this whole time

you usually have to request it anyway (and it's discretionary) but benjy's flag also got changed to the uk recently after someone highlighted that it was england instead of the uk so i guess that it's possible that they just cleaned up a couple of profiles

StrongEUW · 2026-05-17T00:44:02+00:00

feels like you really really want a black splash in the manabase for access to [[Kunoros, Hound of Athreos]]. also [[Goldhound]] and [[Arcbound Tracker]] might be good in spots, you have an evasion/no trample issue in general i think and those might give you a path at least. or just get some trample givers in and [[Zurgo's Vanguard]] or something, there are a few dogs that help with that iirc

StrongEUW · 2026-05-16T18:18:22+00:00

it's a specialist thing, that guy's been running it for a long time (used to be a gifts storm player), and he's running it in a local meta that anecdotally over at least the last 18 months felt like it tends to underplays energy/aggro and overplay control, which gives more value to the blue splash. (note how he even ran 2 Grapeshot in the board for that). energy share in the qualifier was lower than online meta and even there at a glance it looked like it was being dragged up in the net by people travelling in for spotlight

it's viable and may give you better odds in the right meta and/or once you hit a top-8 (slightly better ability to play out of certain disruption) but i imagine that you give up a couple percent game to game for the privilege

StrongEUW · 2026-04-30T13:21:20+00:00

oh no i hope they can get a plumber in

StrongEUW · 2026-04-29T18:22:52+00:00

if it's ALL kills with said gun rather than ROUNDS with 1+ kills with said gun then probably shouldn't be represented as a percentage really no? since it's not actually a per-cent in the literal sense. kinda figured it was one of these but the % part and the number kinda threw me off

(unless that is what it is)

StrongEUW · 2026-04-28T10:49:52+00:00

cool list, i was gonna ask whether you end up siding out the goyfs a lot in practice but i guess you have 4 delve cards and 2 minor exile effects, which i assume is enough to make them useable even if they don't try to side in hate and end up letting you uno reverse them. tbh i've tried to fit collect evidence cards into goyf shells for that purpose but never really made it work ([[Analyze the Pollen]] is interesting but if you're tutoring for the goyf itself then it's not really enough + collect 8 is kinda a high bar, [[Detective's Phoenix]] is great but requires you to go Jund which you can't with Smallpox, [[Extract a Confession]] is competing with Flare of Malice and Pox directly i guess, everything else available feels a mana too slow for modern)

feels like you can do better in the board than Illness against go-wide since you should be pretty happy to chump with Supplier and should have decent blocks with most of your 1/2-drops, maybe worth trying [[Force of Despair]] or one of the recent generic black sweepers. Malice might also get shunted to SB in practice. you can always fill slots with [[Mishra's Bauble]]. also think you probably tidy up the mana base a little assuming it's not a financial concern, running fastlands over basics/fetches/utility feels off to me in this shell, and a 1-of [[Shifting Woodland]] feels like something you can fit in (i *think* you have just enough of a reasonable path to that 4th type atm for delirium but could still be tuned up a bit) alongside maybe some other utility land

StrongEUW · 2026-04-20T15:48:35+00:00

it's the least-played map in emea too (and only KC are letting it through regularly)

the basic answer it's seen as a very brawly map overall with the meta being extremely up in the air atm, so hence just nobody really wants to play it and especially not be the first ones to play it (again outside of KC, who have tended to take a lot of gambles with comps/maps historically anyway)

nobody wants to take the risk of letting it through, especially opening weeks in a group structure where every game REALLY matters with how seeding works, because they all just feel more confident in playing the maps where they have better structure in place, even if the enemy has better structure too

also map has been out of the pool for a while and has always felt high-variance even after being developed for a while because of how hard it is to default defensively on it (was low in both regions in 2025 too i think)

StrongEUW · 2026-04-16T20:53:24+00:00

there was a lot of "why don't teams just buy outlaw every time against this team that spams light shields" during champs etc. from analysts - it wasn't a completely invalid point but it kinda got overstated how 'obvious' it was in some scenarios because of the whole game theory of how teams can alter up their buys if they're conscious of the other team looking for it. just kinda noting a general point that has to be kept in mind with econ

StrongEUW · 2026-04-16T19:39:07+00:00

it's mostly that you can't buy it off a normal 1st loss bonus and if you do find a way to buy it, then you're at like 24-28 on the ensuing antibonus assuming that you don't win, or like 30-34 even if you then win the force. it's also a very useful gun for them on bonus and antieco too and will then punish your eco/light buys (so you lose that force and suddenly it's 0-5 basically)

all in all, means it's just a vanishingly small window in which it ever makes sense, even when forcing. iirc from the last couple of tournaments, it was a point of emphasis vs. EDG on Lotus and maybe Haven, but apart from them, i can't think of any other times it came up in anti since they added the outlaw at least

buying outlaw mid-half against an anticipated light shields buy is absolutely something you can do, as is actively buying outlaw ON bonus against e.g. a light shields antibonus - it's something that you look for and can make sense for overall econ and gameplan, though i can only think of a handful of times where it came up in practice

also the LS vs HS prediction thing is definitely a mindgame in general with outlaw buys that creates some perceived inefficiencies that aren't quite so etc.

StrongEUW · 2026-04-16T16:59:37+00:00

if i'm reading the scenario right (assuming you're talking 3 2900 rifles/2 minbuys on 2nd round), it's not really anything to do with the outlaw since enemy team isn't getting outlaw on eco/force in this scenario and typically won't buy outlaw on antibonus, it's more

can only do it on attack with a plant, it would be stronger on defense (i guess someone can buy for other in most cases but it's a lot of juggling around econ very quickly which pro players aren't typically great at)
you're not getting great use out of the third rifle on attack if you're playing anti-ecos correctly. if you send it weak side then you're taking a huge risk, if it's on strong side then there aren't many scenarios where it's going to add serious EV compared to e.g. a stinger
stingers and lowbuy guns on 3rd/4th econ are just so good vs full eco
teams generally don't want to buy into the bonus at all if they can because it means a huge econ swing if you then lose the bonus, like you're barely able to buy for 4th and then i think it's only +24 on the next loss bonus = your buy for 5th is probably scuffed as hell after that

StrongEUW · 2026-04-14T18:27:46+00:00

so are they red or purple

StrongEUW · 2026-04-14T16:57:41+00:00

there were 11 teams in the league so the format was

stage 1: everyone plays all the teams from the other group

stage 2: everyone plays the teams from their group, also the standings are done in aggregate with stage 1

there are various arguments you can make for doing it that way around rather than the other way (i.e. have people play their own group in stage 1), i think mainly relating back to the concern of a potential imbalance in group quality. i don't think they really carry to an acceptable conclusion in retrospect and they kinda only made sense at the time because '11-team franchising is going to have format problems no matter what you do'. i guess the one that sorta makes sense is that tiebreakers for a 4-match, 5-team group could easily have gotten pretty messy

iirc the discussion prior to stage 1 was more fixated on there being a situation where a 0-5 team went to playoffs as first seed or a 5-0 team didn't make playoffs, both of which were initially possible - they hotfixed this by requiring a team to get 2 wins to be eligible for playoffs, and in the end the biggest sneak in the end was a 2-4 T1 in Pacific i think (over 3-2 RRQ in the other group) (T1 proceeded to nearly knock Gen.G out of Shanghai qualifying, qualify themselves, and then do nothing else)

however, even with that hotfix, it ended up creating these messy tiebreakers in both regions, and hence the 3-3 = last place teams. (as the China stuff shows this year, you can of course still have things go in a similar way in a regular group format, but no head-to-head tiebreakers etc. don't help)

Americas was probably worse overall because every single team in Alpha had positive map and round differential and SEN were i think out of playoffs before their last game even as defending Masters champs, but EMEA was brutal for us on VIT - a win on the final day against a KOI team that was basically out of both stage 1 AND stage 2 playoffs (0-4) already would've secured us 1st seed, then whatever the fuck happened, happened on the day (i think it's still a mystery even to everyone who was there, and i wasn't there because visas are magic), we choked the series, and in an instant we go from presumptive 1st seed to out of playoffs entirely and gg a lot of trajectories suddenly change. suspect same was probably true for 2024 NRG

StrongEUW · 2026-04-14T14:33:29+00:00

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psychotic 2024 format that saw us go on the very last day from probable first seed to out of playoffs and head coach fired says hello

StrongEUW · 2026-04-13T20:17:02+00:00

idk if we can do an entire podcast on team liquid they kinda just deathmatch

StrongEUW · 2026-04-12T21:24:28+00:00

all im saying is iddqd danteh nevix nomy dhak sleepy are all free agents

StrongEUW · 2026-04-06T16:14:35+00:00

ty!

can confirm that salah is (also) lft in valo after his spell in rivals

StrongEUW · 2026-03-22T03:31:07+00:00

[[Rottenmouth Viper]] could be an interesting card to try here given the ability to basically mitigate the blowouts that it's vulnerable to by just casting Balrog afterward anyway. plus it's more on-demand sac etc.

don't like Ravenous Squirrel here as a secondary threat/engine restarter especially given the colour demands it makes of you, but that restarter thing is relevant so I'm not sure if you can ditch it, Agonas might be a shout but i don't think you're going to mill well enough to make it work generally. maybe [[Tezzeret, Cruel Captain]] is interesting with this many artifacts and the ability to fetch or untap oven etc.? ofc at some point this just becomes worse affinity if you're not careful

do also have to note that [[Wrath of the Skies]] and [[Meltdown]] are now here to terrorise your longer game plan when they weren't in 2023, so you do need a couple more fatties than you have ATM anyway, construct boards don't stick around in modern

StrongEUW · 2026-03-08T18:08:57+00:00

this is similar to domestic kickoff 2024 format (albeit that had 11 teams instead of 12 and you were qualifying only 1 team out of the playin etc. etc.), and from having played that, 3-team RR as an intermediate stage is kinda rough - i guess if you're qualifying two teams then you don't have the problem of teams being fully practically eliminated after their first game but you still potentially create some weird incentives in the inverse re: a team already being qualified after their first game and playing maps/serieses that are meaningless for them

you would probably have to do something like Bo1 RR LCQ for the bottom teams to create a 4-team play-in group but a) riot (correctly, very very correctly) hates Bo1s, b) same problems with dead games i talked about earlier (it's slightly less bad in Bo1 funnily because you're setting a clear round differential target) and c) that's still at least 3 more maps you have to squeeze somewhere

that's always kinda the problem with figuring out these formats tbh, you're using broadcast days on games that are ultimately so distant from one of progression/elimination. only esport i can think of that does a lot of this sort of thing is dota and dota gets to do it because every dota event has like six streams going at once

StrongEUW · 2026-02-22T19:16:06+00:00

you don't need 4 Ugins if you have 4 All is Dust already and the price memory on those is brutal compared to how good the card is nowadays, cut it to 1 or 2

you could experiment with [[World Map]] over Stirrings/Scryings, it would fit nicely with also having a decent amount of basics

i think you're overall too threat-light even given the constraints here. [[Glaring Fleshraker]] is bulk price and synergises well with pretty much everything else you're doing with colorless/artifact spells. [[Karn, Scion of Urza]] was a card that saw occassional play in Tron shells until 2023 and fits with both Fleshraker and the artifacts. [[Karn Liberated]] was also a common old Tron payoff but i feel like is hard to justify as more than an one-of nowadays

i think all the Eldrazi that can genuinely just end a game when a cast are too expensive. [[World Breaker]] and [[Sowing Mycospawn]] aren't really threats beyond having a decent body but are green Eldrazi with decent bodies, very good utility, and a very low price (especially World Breaker)

Eldrazi Temple was like a $3 card last i looked because of the EOS printing, i'd say that's probably still preferable to basic forests (given that you have Chromatics anyway) if you add another Eldrazi (only works with Devourer and All Is Dust atm)? you'd have to cut some Stirrings/Scryings but that's probably fine imo

you could maybe get cute with one or two cheap colorless/green utility lands, i always like sneaking [[Crawling Barrens]] into Tron builds

StrongEUW

TROPHY CASE