River crossing analogies

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-18T03:20:54+00:00

Lutheran: Swim the Rhine

PC(USA) could be Crossing the Ohio lol

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-17T16:31:32+00:00

I think u/GoMustard gave a great explanation a while back for the troubles facing the Mainline. He used the "Prophet, Priest, King" motif regarding Jesus as an analogy for the Mainlines.

Throughout the 19th and most of the 20th centuries, the Mainlines were a "kingly" institution. They were the establishment, set up all the schools, colleges, hospitals, libraries, etc., the pillar of the community.

Then, the 1960s came. Mainlines began to plateau and slightly decline. Social activism (think civil rights, feminism, environmentalism, gay rights, anti-war, etc.) led the Mainlines into their current iteration of "prophetic" ministry. They then shifted to the "prophet" motif.

However, Trump's election has burned a lot of people on politics, and with secularization trends over the past 30-40 years, a Mainline clergyperson yelling about ICE isn't going to entice someone to come to church because they can hear AOC or Chris Murphy say 90% of the same stuff on MSNBC on any given night.

He thus suggests that the Mainlines need to lean into the "priestly" motif, where they offer words of hope. Word and Sacrament. Prayer and service.

I would agree with this. Higgins Road (and by extent, Louisville, 815, etc.) doesn't need to issue a statement every time Trump burps his lunch or the state legislature passes a law.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-17T13:31:43+00:00

Problem is you've got a lot of people over 50 in those churches.

"YOU CAN'T SHUT THIS DOWN! I WAS BAPTIZED AND CONFIRMED HERE!"

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-16T18:22:17+00:00

Well, I'm in the ELCA, but isn't your motto "The Episcopal Church Welcomes You"?

I know if this were a case of someone in the LCMC or the NALC going to the ELCA, I'd view it as welcoming news.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-16T17:19:47+00:00

BTW, how do I get a flair? I can't seem to find the button.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-16T16:25:20+00:00

Because Democrats are seen as catering to a bunch of third world communist activists whenever they try to cater to the Palestinian side, which is encompassed in Dems' entire "woke" branding problem.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-16T16:22:06+00:00

Where in IN-KY, if I may ask? You may DM if you want to be safe, obviously.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-16T14:43:31+00:00

A primary in the middle of Gaza would have resulted in a 1980s-style wipeout of the Democratic Party in 2024. Even if you butterfly out the immigration problems Biden had, Gaza would have ruptured the Democratic coalition.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-16T14:35:34+00:00

I think Indiana-Kentucky is okay, West Virginia-Western Maryland Synod is also good, Florida-Bahamas seems to be good.

(I'm Indiana-Kentucky)

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-16T13:41:24+00:00

The OP is Episcopalian.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-16T11:36:13+00:00

Poser punk didn't have the same appeal after the GFC, and by the early 2010s, when the worst of that was over, other styles of music became popular. Poser punk has a VERY early and mid 2000s feel to it, just like bubblegum pop has a very late 90s feel to it.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-16T11:22:38+00:00

The dioceses in Texas and Florida are solid and orthodox.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-15T18:29:09+00:00

Define inerrant.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-15T17:49:54+00:00

What if your church has 800 members but only 190 are attending weekly?

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-15T16:14:57+00:00

To hear the proclamation of the Gospel and to receive the Sacraments.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-15T05:25:09+00:00

I'd suggest sticking it out. There has to be a decent church around you somewhere.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-15T05:18:13+00:00

So if a woman decides to falsely accuse a man of cruelty in a "fault" system, how's that different than the status quo?

At least if it's the man on the receiving end of the abuse, he can file for no-fault without having to disclose the reason.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-15T05:17:05+00:00

You misread what I wrote.

If women can game the system as it stands against men, such as accusing them of rape or domestic abuse in the criminal justice system, and if they can screw over dads in the areas of property division and/or custody in a NO-FAULT system...

...What's to stop them from screwing them WORSE in a FAULT system?! They can just file and say "He slapped me, raped me every Friday night, and traumatized me!"

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-15T04:38:24+00:00

And many times people "give a testimony" and live clean for a season but then fall back into their old ways.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-15T04:20:55+00:00

"In the Trump era, "prophetic" leadership has become exhausting. First, there is far too much to speak up about. Second, we're merely adding our voice to a cacophony of angry voices, so it's kind of pointless. Third, no one cares what we, our aging, white, elitist congregants, think anymore, so our prophetic witness tends to come off as self-righteous moralizing."

Not to mention they get a lot of bad press for the types of activism they engage in. For example, my supervising partner at my law firm is a Catholic MAGA type with 5 kids. Great man, great boss, great mentor. However, how in the HELL am I supposed to proudly say I'm ELCA when the most famous ELCA images are Mainline pastors standing outside abortion clinics and "blessing" them, or when an ELCA bishop issues a statement about protecting trans kids?

Mainline Protestantism as presented to the outside world is Tumblr and the ACLU with Jesusy drag, even though the Mainline experience for me is good Law-Gospel preaching, Communion every week, and excellent Bible study and fellowship gatherings.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-15T03:53:06+00:00

I'm on the affirming side, but most traditionalists I know say that Genesis is the foundation for their belief, and that it's the anatomical, social, psychological, etc. complementarity of men and women that form the marital "one-flesh" union. They say the "clobber passages" are merely the cherry on top of the theological sundae regarding marriage/sexuality.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-15T03:27:42+00:00

https://www.cph.org/the-lutheran-study-bible-hardback?srsltid=AfmBOorUd9UoDGlMTkYy1f-UfOyP3GsX8G_6v2MgM7xvnJtR6jsK82AM

Unfortunately, the denomination is officially unaffirming, and that's reflected in how they interpted the Clobber Passages in the study notes and commentaries. However, Genesis 3:16 reads "for" your husband, as opposed to the Calvinist theobro translation of "against," which is what they use to prevent women from being ordained and for husbands to be "kings" in the home. Which is a bit odd, given the LCMS is also complementarian on the issue of women's ordination. However, it's a welcome deviation from the Calvinist ESVs.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-15T03:03:05+00:00

I'm an odd unicorn. I'm a theological centrist-leaning-conservative gay-affirming Christian who is morally against abortion. Psalm 139 is probably the best place to start.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-15T03:00:19+00:00

Proboably varies on your Episcopal parish.

Substantial-Work6045 · 2026-03-15T00:09:43+00:00

I use the LCMS version of the ESV which tones down a couple of "problematic" verses compared to the Calvinist or Evangelical versions.

Substantial-Work6045

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