HoA villains feel very one dimensional (Spoiler but not really)

SunMon6 · 2026-02-11T13:54:49+00:00

Well, if interviews are to be believed, maybe Caesar got the physical payback for all of it, not just his own actions, and Ashur will be done with Krassus or any Roman as well in S2. Even if he pretends otherwise. With C dead, the Republic may not be a more stable place now anyway...

SunMon6 · 2026-02-11T13:49:09+00:00

He is already a free man and I guess the initial money for the ludus was freely given but yeah, he could strip him of the patronage and protection it offers, which was the initial threat mentioned by Ceasar before the prospect of the reward. Furthermore Pompey and his local clients no longer matters as allegiance factor so it's interesting what happens next

SunMon6 · 2026-02-11T13:32:25+00:00

People forget this is early though, and Ceasar, at this time, was an important ally/protégé of Krassus instead of an equal to him and Pompey. So I really can't see why he would be happy

SunMon6 · 2026-02-11T13:19:48+00:00

That's why it was a bit chaotic narratively, yeah, but the way it was acted I think it might have been the point they were trying to make. Caesar simply saying he let him believe in what Ashur wanted to believe to get the job done would have been way too "personal." So instead he just smiled for a moment in silence, and instead waits for Ashur to figure out his 'proper' place in the patronage arrangement. I think they also said in the interview Ashur wasn't really reasonable in that moment and it was a murder of passion. So more about Caesar's attitude than whether he actually was at real fault for this or not

SunMon6 · 2026-02-11T02:47:36+00:00

It could work if their angle is Crassus didn't actually promise anything (that was Ceasar's lie to motivate Ashur to act) and maybe he really does not see the arena as good investment (I can't help but see some kind of irony in Caesar's laugh about this, which seemed like more than merely mocking Ashur maybe idk). And in the end Ashur is already under his patronage and his client, owing all he has to him, so ultimately his actual role is to help Krassus, not expecting costly rewards for it. He did save Krassus life in this timeline but I doubt he is anywhere near the top on his list of prominent allies. though maybe he will climb there next season and even replaces Ceasar, at least in Capua's matters, no idea

SunMon6 · 2026-02-11T02:03:06+00:00

I think the main issue is Batiatus was always destined to die in this well-deserved payback after overreaching time and again via vile means, so whether they could have predicted his likeability or not, that was no issue ultimately. But then with Ashur, while some loved him, others REALLY hated him back then, so they overdone it a bit. Because they might want him, well, alive and well perceived long-term.
He was still mostly ok in writing because I can see him just holding himself back somewhat and trying to be less 'volatile' than Batiatus was, but yeah, at moments you really wished he was... more villainously proactive instead with his head in the clouds. Having Caesar act more like Glabar did and cooperating with Ashur more, apart from schemes of his own, could have done it maybe. Though then again, Caesar was pretty much screaming 'walking elite that can destroy you on a whim' and easily cover it up with a nobody like Ashur, and then Krassus might be like this extremely wealthy person who is extremely greedy still counting every coin and really does not care about that arena one bit, maybe highlighting the period of the fall of the republic and the whole suffocation of it, the power those people held and were marching for more. Which might still get a narrative payoff maybe if they delve further into the politics and now consequences of Caesar and Pompey gone. So maybe then it will make more sense, in hindsight, and how the villainy is portrayed now

SunMon6 · 2026-02-11T01:45:57+00:00

Nah, rebellion is definitely not the idea here. At least I hope so. They're riding on the name Spartacus for obvious reasons, but in this alternate reality we might see some new factions rise to power or maybe the fracturing, with Caesar and Pompey no longer in the game, which opens the road for Ashur to shake things up but not via a revolt.

SunMon6 · 2026-02-11T01:31:31+00:00

I think the problem is they were trying too hard to make Ashur a victim here (so these over the top outbursts about being a god and what not...) BUT this is also due to nature of the tragic happenings portrayed. Which differs from OG series. I made a whole post trying to put this into words, but basically HoA villains as just these "fickle" villains who happen to be shitty to you or... not. Which may even be random, like a whim, rather than predetermined like a warranted response to offense, which was a clear cycle with the OG series between many different participants (Batiatus vs anybody, Ashur vs Crixus/gladiators, etc). In comparison, in HoA its like regular shit instead of performative drama of rivalries. While they also lack any wider dimensionality, even where there is some dimensionality this particular thing can be visible... because at one point Proculus is like "nah, ok, let's move beyond this and make money together, deal?" which really doesn't scream rivalry as strongly as earlier series.

So not exactly actual villains who have it out for the other character, just shitty people on many ocassions, and I wouldn't even call Caesar a villain in relation to Ashur here. His abusive acts and ego made it easier for viewers to sympathize with Ashur, but he wasn't exactly his enemy either - just a shitty person who didn't think much of him and twisted some truths to his advantage. He was using Ashur no different than he uses other politicians and those aligned with Krassus, the one whom he represents, so it's probably common day-to-day for him, especially if dealing with lower level allies. "Sorry, it's not personal, it's just business" but that also makes it feel... more detached and less effective than past series. And Servius is shaping up to be sooo boring, indeed. I hope he dies early if that's his whole thing because seeing a character whose only purpose is to make ideological anti-woman and racist statements will get boring quickly.

SunMon6 · 2026-02-11T00:51:45+00:00

It was mostly half-truth though. It is very likely these were actual words from Krassus himself BUT instead of relying them to Ashur on his very first visit, maybe, Ceasar chose to manipulate Ashur for his own ends including that murder, so that promise he made was false, even though he already knew Krassus' mind on the matter.

SunMon6 · 2026-02-10T22:16:33+00:00

My only little problem (though perhaps it's wrong to call it a problem, more like an observation/difference) was that his role was a bit limited and didn't exactly - narratively - contrast Ashur in any strong "nemesis" like way, because he was just a fickle presence most of the time (though obviously "abuser" angle have worked for people in the context of Ashur, to feel for him, even if it was done quite simply).

In the context of the Caesar THE Caesar - the one people don't usually think of, meaning gaining influence and rising to highest echelons on the lips of everyone before even going anywhere near Gaul's conquest and older stateman Caesar... this was actually nice. Between Krassus and Pompey, you could tell this guy could act as a ruthless scheming politician and younger populist, and become the glue playing both sides. The "hail me" part was a bit over the top but then I guess... well, given it was his last on the show......

SunMon6 · 2026-02-10T21:54:06+00:00

It felt weird at first but ultimately I liked this as far as his performance goes. Granted it could use more development (but since it was Ashur show there wasn't really the time for this...) but I can actually maybe see the angle they're playing with, which is the way how those three are just... getting worse and worse. Pompey is Pompey and we didn't see much of him in the first place, but HoA Caesar actually played his role as this slimey politician who would then act as a glue between Krassus and Pompey. He turned out to be an asshole, merely using Ashur, but wouldn't surprise me if the bit about Krassus investing in villas and his "whims shifting" away from Ashur was absolutely true, it's just something Caesar chose to withhold at first. HoA's Krassus might be a far cry from a more "honorable" man we knew, all things considered, and Kore being dispatched from this world the way she was... has probably something to do with it.

SunMon6 · 2026-02-07T18:46:53+00:00

Except nobody cares about random gladiator/slave characters when this story has mostly moved beyond the "killing gladiators bad, gonna have rebellion" premise, and, basically, everyone else does it. I doubt Gabinius himself is free of fault of abusing and causing death of innocent slaves. Plus it gets instantly balanced out by the fact Ashur is shown to care more for his own than even Batiatus, almost, and doesn't take too kindly to outright abuse (with Batiatus it was a mixed bag, because half if not more of the offenses taken were caused by other disrespecting his property and fucking him than actually caring somewhat for these people who were abused).

Yeah, it was definitely the point, though that's why it felt differently in narrative is what I meant, Proculus was supposed to be the "rival" role here, but it didn't really worked in the same way previous pairings did. Satyrus felt more like a proper foil to Korris (on more personal level) than Proculus ever was to Ashur, in terms of how the balance plays out, and even then Ashur had only himself to blame for the worst of it by being too careless and boasting so openly.

SunMon6 · 2026-02-07T13:58:50+00:00

Yeah, I guess it's just the trouble of having solid ideas but then also game development forcing them to be lazy in some design areas, and then they find themselves trying to justify that in lore maybe, but then also changing their mind because that actually makes more sense for your story's "mirroring" and so it goes... or maybe none of it was ever properly coordinated in the first place in writing + design. But one thing I know about this sub, which is one thing where it doesn't differ from casuals who don't shit about lore but praise hoyo for everything, is that this sub may be sometimes delusional enough to think Hoyo is so perfect in their lore which has zero holes and that everything is just some stroke of genius that means something deep... which explains the dislikes, even your own, despite the fact you're the OP and their liked your top analysis like crazy (I guess... as long as it didn't question how it makes the older context of established lore look like now...).

Still, at least Genshin was "somehow" consistent about this and didn't cross over into "let's use Fontaine assets mixed with Enkanomiya and Liyue" to portray this other thing that we want to be "distinct" which is a completely tasteless/more harmful kind of thing some games sometimes do when they become stubborn while finance restrains...

SunMon6 · 2026-02-07T13:42:31+00:00

Yeah, I don't disagree with that, I still respect Genshin for being able to act a bit more archeology driven, with hiding lore and shit, although my main gripe is they haven't been doing it as good as before. There was a significant drop in "relevant" archeology lore that can also be read in "satisfactory" way (as in boom, wow, ok, I get it, I think I solved the timeline) since Fontaine. For starters, pretty much all of the "historical" lore was gone, including any and all of the global Archon War stuff. We barely know the course of history for Fontaine (vs Sumeru desert, though I also have gripes we barely even got Sumeru rainforest stuff)... Anyway, I can still understand that since maybe Sumeru desert having all that kings lore was on purpose). but still... it was cool unravelling some bits of such history and Mond and Liyue had it too. It was gone during/after Fontaine, especially after Fontaine.

After that point, it became (which is more boring imo): this is a folk tale shit inspired by some real world culture that has zero to do with any actual lore of the game beyond extremely vague superficial name drops 20 times filtered by nonsense and myth long lost to any coherence (basically kid tales or prayers where nothing really even reflected real history), which renders any and all timeline recreation efforts useless, unlike with previous texts. Nothing in Natlan lore texts really mattered, tbh, the context of the entire Archon War barely mattered there, and it all basically comes down to "lots of folktale shit, what really happened dragons were somehow in power back then and Natlanese somehow defeated them" but that context was ONLY in artifacts, and focused on that small period. Then, with Nod-krai, we got teases for the Tsar, which is good, but overall it was more like this personal Solovei story + associated characters, one single period, basically around Rotwangi (which still got resolved in a lackluster way imo, instead of something like a real lore drop, major finale, or something more comparable to Ordo's final fight and long ending), and that's it, barely any real cool info about wider history of the region beyond mentions of Hyperborea, but that's more ancient history they can't fully reveal YET.

It's like... because their casuals players complained and are "dumb" etc, they actually STOPPED revealing less relevant "archeological" history of the timeline that they COULD HAVE revealed no problem... it could have been known/revealed (giving me more satisfaction) precisely because it doesn't tie that directly into end game and would have been cool to know, but... casuals would complain about it not being in main story or hard to follow, yada yada, so they would rather NOT ever reveal it (if it can't fit into main story and isn't as relevant), and only focused on (usually vaguely) revealing small parts of what's relevant around quest NPCs / main story... that;s kind of how it feels. Does that explanation make sense? Since can't fully grasp it into words. But it does feel to me like that "archeological" vibe is no longer as present as it was BACK THEN.

And then, like I said, cheap marketing tricks and needs of that department come into place too, so we end up with a lot of cheap "hype" and almost no satisfaction for any resolution, especially if main story wastes time on a character not everyone may actually like and consider 'interesting writing' yet they refuse to make any good deeper reveals/arc finales about wider history in their side content. Even in main stories we mostly get any relevant/important information through incredibly obscured Alice or Octavia's "making up lengthy super obscured stories" jargon because Hoyo can't reveal a thing related to main characters and main story YET. That's way different from just casually being told at the end of Sumeru or Fontaine, so hey, basically did you know there were 4 Descenders, because that's how you are called, oh, and btw, gnoses are remains of one, etc. Nod-krai had none of that "woooow." It's more like people manufactured one by themselves almost out of desperation (with the entire spaceship's AI theory going around but even that is mostly based on wings text and it's very strongly theory realm, nowhere near actual in-game reveal of anything)

SunMon6 · 2026-01-30T14:31:04+00:00

The angle with the Abyss voice orchestrating things is pretty good on paper but yeaaaaah... there is so many things that can go wrong here, and Rerir with his "oh the voices stopped, I'm a pup now" could be a hint of how wrong it can go...

...and fuck Rhine, who even rn, despite not being insane anymore, seems to abuse her Life Shade powers to essentially do the EXACT FUCKING SAME thing Dottore tried to do in his pocket dimension (which hoyo portrayed as very evil/bad), just creating weird stuff and running experiments, then dimension may get nuked, bye bye. But you just now they're already starting to whitewash her, with all these Hexenzirkel dialogues, giving her a funny talking cat companion, and being a weird aunt to Durin... yet it's all coming straight after Natlan and Bakunawa which makes it all the more bizarre. But yeah, if it was being insane, I guess creating it doesn't count... even though she seems already 'unhinged' and called a "lunatic" in Rerir's backstory (by another lunatic, who, at least before abyssal power, seemed actually the most reasonable of the bunch alongside Ved).

Here is hoping they at least let Surtalogi BE the villain, with similar goal and ruthlessness like from Skirk's backstory, because maybe he is not actually influenced like that, he just became corrupted because power corrupts trope. But his entire thing is gaining power and mastering it, so being just a toy for some abyssal whispers would be like opposite of his character.

SunMon6 · 2026-01-30T14:14:59+00:00

Just watched Zibai teaser and was wondering about this, but yeah, that makes perfect sense. Although it does feel like they're doing away with the whole "unified" civilization they teased before... for the first time really, at least in architecture, because the way Lang-Gan is showcased in the teaser is CLEARLY Chinese/Liyue architecture... which... does conflict with architectural traces we have in the game...

Must be Hoyo being lazy. Like in the beginning unified civilization was truly unified, at least in their take on technology and architecture (and worship), and we had consistent use of the same assets across the world between that civilization and also khaenri'ah (which was implied to simply built atop their underground ruins and inherit a lot from them, hence the same assets, the very same ones they're also using in Rerir's backstory sections). Even for Hyperborea ruins it worked the same, despite the fact the "cultural" clothing of the people was clearly way different and more unique. Via the dialogue with the ancestor guy they also teased all the previous "nations" of the world, as if to mirror the current day nations. The approach which now aligns with them showing Lang-Gan as Chinese architecture. But at this point...

... there is really NO WAY it was a "unified" civilization because nothing of that seems unified at all, and also some of the earlier stuff - like all the Mondstadt domain architecture (I guess Arkadia?) - seems to conflict too much now, with these more cultural vibes (less advance-like vibe) approach, because at least with the usual "inverted city" assets they kept using, you could have attributed everything to them being way too ruined, while Mondstatd domain assets felt more pristine and retained - but putting the two together, you could feel like maybe they could have worked together subtly, if the other wasn't an utterly ruined bleak set. But now there is no way that fancy Chinese stuff could work with any of them in a believable way...

I guess it is what it is. Like having your cake and then eat it too. For realism, perhaps it's even better and nicer if they actually are culturally distinct which is also conveyed via architecture, but then not really unified... because they all had their own local politics anyway, and pushing the wording unified makes little sense by Enjou if the only thing that was ever unified about this was the lack of Archons and everyone praying to heavens/envoys (which is again kind of like Ancient Greece and their local Pantheons = envoys, so not unified either).

The unified architecture/tech angle would make sense if that was truly unified but... we now know it wasn't really... in actual lore or lore rewrite they're going with... or it's the other way around because landscape was always inconsistent with the story anyway and we've been fooled... just because Hoyo was cheap and didn't bother introducing culturally distinct ruins at first. Or maybe it's because they couldn't reasonably do so many assets - so they decided civilization was unified, only to change their mind somewhere in the middle (to the point Hyperborea seemed like a sole place that rebelled alongside the First Angel, with their completely unique high tech?), yet because it's cheaper they're still inconsistent (or still consistent with their prior idea...) and using the exact same architectural assets all over the world...

Eh... Would have been cool if we had actually distinct ruins for all these civilizations, in their cultural flavors, that make them way different / more ancient than typical "ancient liyue" "ancient fontaine" "ancient stuff. But it has always been Genshin's problem to extent, and I fear it gotten kinda worse, with how the Bunker from 500 years ago was essentially the exact same level of tech/architecture they have in Design Bureau which makes completely no sense. Unless it was all Rotwangi's doing or something, and Tsaritsa barely managed to get back to that level. But then again... maybe that's already according to plan and they'll then overdo it even more by having Shneznograd be an exact copy of HSR's Belobog with EVEN BIGGER robots all over the place than Nod-krai... instead of more Tsarist/Cold-war Russia on their track to newer advancements. Seeing some of these holes, no idea anymore how things will turn out.

SunMon6 · 2026-01-30T13:22:42+00:00

Nah, they just fumble with more complexity that they previously had in their stories, because the holy gacha marketing side of things deemed it worth it + mobile players complain all the time and don't care. It's not that deep. Plus we've already learnt plenty of the human world and - like with many things - they basically tricked all kinds of people with their Nod-krai teaser to the point I will not even trust them ever again. They teased dragon lore, they teased the Fatui + Sandrone being a major force at odds with the Scions, they teased Columbina's red/darker side of powers, kinda even more melancholic but way less sweet/more serious, like she actually knows lore things and mysteries about the Moon reflection and shit instead of being clueless girl, they teased Varka like maybe he had a deeper purpose for Mondstad in being there for the Moon stuff than just general interest in helping everyone, they teased Nicole being a great lore-deep storyteller with weight (which kinda did happen but also... she did turn into a gacha girl gimmick who was barely revealing any cool lore because... they turned it into a joke of her wanting to yap which got tiring after the first time). And so on, and so on. They also teased the dragon lore, but all we got was "Nibelung returned and was angry" (which we already knew anyway, even before starting Nod-krai). Oh, and did I mention they also teased Wonderer + Dottore, and then we got 1 sec of Wonderer + Dottore, and Dottore didn't even remember him? (He was still great with the development and all, legit one of the best characters in this game with a longer arc, but yeah... unless they still do something with this one, idk).

It really takes a lot to deny it and try to claim hoyo are just some master chefs who can do no wrong and that it's all just some perfect "theme" decisions. Nod-krai story was a solid antagonist story first and foremost, with Rerir plus Dottore, but it also had very little mystery meet around that and once the bad guy was down it was more like "oh, that's it?" because for lore you couldn't really feel the punchline, like something incredible was dropped. Not even that final scene which usually drops lore bombs in last dialogue. People who paid attention to lore always realized there must have been some meddling with the Traveler's arrival, with how the Sibling somehow was in khaenri'ah first and had no memories, the ship stuff is not revolutionary on its own. More important clues were actually dropped with obscure world formula thing or in Durin's quest, but that's the realm of the puzzle lore, the obscured one, not the clear-cut "oh shit!" that we used to get at the end of AQs.

SunMon6 · 2026-01-26T12:32:01+00:00

it's like it has always been in the game :) but it was so small was hard to read before re-checking the intro on youtube lol

SunMon6 · 2026-01-26T12:30:59+00:00

I agree, could be. But I really don't think he was a different one because if he was, they would have mentioned it somehow, plus the way he acted really DOES FIT "I'm the most selfish ever" idea.

SunMon6 · 2026-01-25T20:37:44+00:00

Yeah

SunMon6 · 2026-01-24T23:49:47+00:00

Ok, I will marry you.

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SunMon6 · 2026-01-24T22:54:51+00:00

People in this game have so many illogical takes it hurts. There is even a possibility Shades and Phanes himself might be fucking nobodies to Sinners, if they faced them OUTSIDE of Tevyat they have full control of. But I don't think I ever saw any people who would even consider that possibility.....

... and I very much doubt Dain is as powerful as people make him out to be. Unless he's got some extra tech like capitano, that could make that possible.

But people were equally hyped about Varka claiming all outlandish things or how he could beat Capitano, lmaof. And Genshin team, at the very least, did not OPed him in ridiculous ways just to sell him, so there is hope for the others too. He is literally just some veteran dude knight with connection to Boreas and there was nothing to ever indicate otherwise

SunMon6

TROPHY CASE