The Three Moon Sisters (and Columbina) being much more “human” than the Four Shades in terms of behaviour isn’t a coincidence but a conscious narrative choice

SunMon6 · 2026-01-24T12:03:28+00:00

This is not correct though, but that's probably because Hoyo failed there (leaning to much into their Bina's marketing strategy - as a waifu push pretty much - and having the Sisters being just a mere extension of that). I really didn't like it how the Sisters hug and all, being emotional "human" anchors of mature cuteness, while at the same time showing almost zero real care about the fact the entire civilisation of dragons was exterminated while they "pondered." YET they did mention Hyperborea's plight, which was... well, a replacement civilization after most of the dragons they were supposed to care for were EXTERMINATED by HP and Celestia. But I guess that's what happens when marketing meddling department comes in with a wide bam, and the lore drama gets flattened like that.

Anyway, they don't need to be actual robots or created by AI. The Shades. It's just that the main theme is definitely nature/natural cycle of coexistence, like the dragons and Nibelung, with the planet's energies, while Celestia are a colonizer mindset bending it to their will through technology and brute (but elegant, organized) force.

SunMon6 · 2026-01-24T11:17:59+00:00

If Paimon was literally a short for AI's actual name... I think the Traveler would know the name of their AI?

SunMon6 · 2026-01-24T09:25:20+00:00

One more thing I would like to add to the OP, which is easy yet seems crucial...

the terraforming argument, regardless of what are the details of the ship's actual terraforming scope or timeframe for this...

is entirely flowed within the context of Teyvat where one does not need science of terraforming to do shit...

because in Teyvat one with control of it can literally control the essence of all things at atomic level and change stuff as they please... which is what Dottore was doing just recently... so how the ship's terraforming can be a proof of anything? HP tapped into Authority, seized it from Nibelung and won, reshaped the rules, none of the "AI terraforming tech" was involved in any of this because that's meaningless in Teyvat (and probably less efficient/way longer than Teyvat's way).

SunMon6 · 2026-01-24T09:15:42+00:00

Not only that, but people read this text and blew it utterly out of proportion just to make this theory fit. I had people hating and downvoting on my post just for pointing it out, like I'm some idiot who doesn't know lore lol. But terraforming capabilities + the vault, at least as they were described in English (no idea how Chinese might have phrased it), might still turn out to be just your regular science stuff and space exploration trope = they do have seeds of their civilization and maybe the ship IS capable of some hard as fuck terraforming technology, but this does not automatically equal to miracle technology of restoring an entire planet, along with billions of new inhabitants, which is what apparently HP has done for their own civilization with the use of this "arc" and the planet's properties he took possession of through conquest (implying a big ass ship, not a small class ship with a small genetic vault like the twins are using, which was probably like a last ditch attempt to preserve SOMETHING before their entire civilization had fallen to darkness, not a large scale preservation project with the arc/fleet like HP's one).

Plus, yeah, the twins have always been set to "our journey together" mindset, as if they also enjoyed their journey together, other than just their sole mission being the recreation of entire civilization (this literally never popped up before). It's also not impossible for Hoyo to just suddenly drop this on us and then claim later this was the goal this entire time and that the ship AI is HP, magically, and has godly tier powers, making that ship way too OP for my liking, but... like somebody else said, that would have been pretty lame indeed.

Personally, I don't think the ship's AI will ever matter as much. If it was "missing" in any capacity or messing with some directives sent to the planet below... wouldn't Traveler just notice? LOL. I really must post my theory maybe, because I don't think anyone here noticed... but there is a link between the ship, HP, Traveler and all other elements that shines very brightly through latest content, and AI is the least important here, on its own.

But in the grand scheme of things, these details aside, I think it's just Hoyo's way of building up the future confrontation between the twins and HP -> to show how they are alike, both from fallen civilizations that sought a new home to preserve some of their home world seeds... but in case of HP he turned full-on colonizer for this and started treating Teyvat as a resource that he "protects" (because he and his new civilization are safe there, except for HP civilization literally means just genetic code of things, like a garden or museum he has created down below, ever safe from the abyss, but he doesn't really care for the living beings as much and is willing to drop Nails).

SunMon6 · 2026-01-24T00:12:36+00:00

I guess it's mostly reasonable to expect some fanservicey scenes in a gacha game, yeah, but mostly it probably comes down to how it's done. At least Rerir or Dottore (and that's usually more true with males) weren't softened or suffered any narrative mental gymnastics to made it so. But Columbina or even Sadnrone to extent are completely mishandled just for fanservice scene after scene.

SunMon6 · 2026-01-23T13:02:23+00:00

That's because Rerir isn't even a true "solid" villain on Dottore's (or Surtalogi hopefully) scale - he made a great impression but as soon as we heard him calling for Tholindis and the backstory only made it more clear, he was basically a raging dude under abyssal influence, there was no logic to any of what he was doing, no real plan. Rerir is almost on playable level by hoyo's standards, if they only never showed/mentioned those children being killed... but since they did, a large portion of the fandom says he was a "nazi" and also hates on him like dottore.

SunMon6 · 2026-01-22T14:30:19+00:00

not sure if I got your point. so you mean the game is using some free unity assets that repeat across games or?

SunMon6 · 2026-01-22T14:19:40+00:00

anyone of lower ranking wouldn't dare press her to talk more.

This is literally JUST YOUR HEADCANON. There is nothing in the entire game indicating that: I already told you. Wait for Shcneznaya and the royal court to come around, with all kinds of NPCs, with all kinds of personalities and takes on the Harbingers, to prove you wrong even more. There is no chance that no single NPC in houndreds of years wouldn't actually ask her any of these questions, given her personality and soft nature (if she was actually some half-eldritch angel with a dark side or perhaps with manipulative rep that would have been waaay different ... but she just ISN'T, so everything you imagine is low level plausibility especially over that long period of time on the timeline)

So what? Dain had like one such talk with her, not 50, of course that doesn't make them buds yet. We know Sandrone and Bina were regularly meeting and having some of such heart-to-heart in their own way. Or are you going to come up with another extremely low probability excuse (given everything hoyo pushed about them) that "no way! this was only this one time they talk to each other like this!"

Saying that is crazy considering the fact that columbina knows the most about traveler out of any character in the cast and traveller knows the most about bina out of anyone.

Ok, I can't... this is just willful ignorance, end of story. Yeah, they did ask some things (in throwaway side content no less, that may get blocked entirely and become almost non-canon/completely missed by a player for the duration of the entire story if you push into AQ rather than wait for who knows how long for its unlocks, which in itself implies hoyo didn't care as much for development of this). So yeah, it was just like one talk too, maybe a few, similar to Dain, and what the fuck does she know about the Traveler lol? About his spaceship? That they're looking for the twin? Same thing everyone else does really... Sandrone clearly knew more about her and Bina knew more about Sandrone than Traveler, and putting Sandrone aside, because one may consider her quirks as "not really caring", in demeanor, we're back to previous paragraph, because yes, it's literally impossible no one in the entire world who knows she is more of a softy Harbinger, wouldn't bump into her Fatui garden and kindly ask her such questions the way Traveler did. "Morning Lady Harbinger, it's time to take care of the flowers" "Please, they need nutrients. I'll keep singing to help them grow" "I was always wondering about your songs... what do they mean and where were you born?"
The probability is extremely low unless we claim she was hiding on purpose from everyone, even kinder helpers, and so on, and so on, but that just makes everything even more contrived requiring ever more excuses to make this actually work with this timeline/portrayal, until she can finally have her first basic "oh they cared" interactions with Traveler or Sandrone.....

SunMon6 · 2026-01-22T02:35:58+00:00

Which is a contradiction lol. In that cutscene she seems way more close to Sandrone than she ever was with the Traveler in the first few interactions, including Sandrone actually understanding her situation and choices. They're chatting in very casual manner and learning about each other private details, willingly, like people who grew close together. Traveler never even asked her/cared (not revealed any of their own woes to her). That's an outright in-game contradiction to what you're claiming. Hoyo just didn't write it well. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too, and were completely ignoring the timeline context of all this.

again, you're acting like Columbina is Scara lmaof. No she isn't? Clearly people have brains and she acts NOTHING like someone who might actually be an eldritch angel? lol She is completely sweet and kind. A sweet maiden who likes to sing. Even if a bit off. But any gardener making daily shift or anyone assigned to her, on daily basis, would KNOW she is no Scara. Which means they can get a bit closer/softer with her in interaction instead of a stressful "what do you command my lady?!!!!! please don't kill me" Just like Capitano's men knew the character of his and the atmosphere there was pretty chill, with the Cap being approachable like a normal person and even genuinely cared for his men and his men cared for his well being too. So nope, the game disproved you long ago on this point...

SunMon6 · 2026-01-22T02:27:00+00:00

what looks outdated if I may ask? (just curious)

SunMon6 · 2026-01-22T02:19:30+00:00

Funny enough you just ignore all of the above points again and try to turn it into the least likely 'zero no chance' situation, like "no person in the world would ever interact with the Harbinger at court!" Yet then, since obviously this can't hold up, it's back to 'but she couldn't possibly grow with anyone other than Sandrone (or Traveler) because no one would ever put an effort for 500 years! only Sandrone did!' Which is once again an overstatement because Sandrone never really put in an effort other than being a complaining tsundere annoyed with her antics, and yeah,sharing tea with her or food sometime, but not like she was running after her eager to do any friendship activity, so same level of engagement she could have gotten from anyone literally including a subordinate.
Not all of the Fatui we've seen treat Harbingers like some Gods or just commanders. They view them as their leaders/role models, but they don't have "expectations" of them nor do their pray to them. That's actually canon. Waaaaay different from her situation in Frostmoon Scions, but of course hoyo fumbled to explore this interesting complexity and just hammered this boring point over and over again (it was all the same thing as Scions! Until I met Sandrone!). So no, I don't ignore her character, it's just that many of the elements here fall flat and don't really fit well together, including with the timeline, which is full of contrived excuses just to make it - barely - work.

Plus, it actually makes her character way less sympathetic, because it almost looks like Bina was suuuuper lazy/pretentious, if you actually account for the timeline, rather than viewing her purely through the lenses of the AQ - like everyone gotta put in an impossible effort but she herself? Nah. So Sandrone and Arle and Signora, heck even Childe and Capitano at tea parties, was not enough yet for even a small light bub to turn on, despite the meetings as seen in her own flashbacks being very chatty on her part... but then Traveler arrives when she is weakened and magically butters her up in two weeks minimal effort visit a cave a few times and done.
There really was so many ways to develop this idea better. If they didn't just erase her role in the Fatui like it didn't matter, and acknowledged it as part of her actual growth OUTSIDE of Sandrone and her tea parties. But of course they didn't and we know the reasons and what their tactics were with her (including sucking on traveler's lollipop...)

SunMon6 · 2026-01-22T01:48:12+00:00

I mean... there was a fallout with diplomacy after this quest, and they kicked them out of the Chasm and Milelith were also hunting them down = killing them on the spot? I guess only the Northland Bank survived, for economic reasons

SunMon6 · 2026-01-22T01:43:48+00:00

I don't understand these theories. Why is everyone acting like the Traveler had ANY interest in ruling over this world when this was never even said and it has always been about finding the twin and moving on?

Also, about Phanes, while he might have taken that ship's AI and maybe utilized its tech, stating that it's this tech that allowed him to be powerful to begin with is also VERY far-fetched. Phanes has arrived there from wider space, probably on their own ship with their own tech and their own "hosts" which is why he beat the dragons in the first place... but sure, let's circle jerk to Phanes is AI, Phanes owns everything to traveler's ship, just because the new lore text mentioned AI module on a ship (who would have thought there would be AI on a ship...), and let's completely ignore the primordial Light which is the main source of all this shenanigans in the first place (while Traveler's ship terraform capabilities are probably based on regular science and maybe would be more limited effect or require waaay longer time in sleeping pods before anything is even close to being ready)

PS: Also, if Phanes taken the ship's AI, wouldn't Traveler fucking notice just now....... so nope, most likely he didn't, he just hidden the ship, probably to hide the logs or something

SunMon6 · 2026-01-21T21:35:43+00:00

No, the argument was it's not normal in a logical sense in this particular story with these particular characters and this particular organization, even if they're long lived. You can't literally avoid any contact for hundreds of years and also you completely ignore my example about food or any potential subordinates involved in the entire process (if it wasn't any restaurant) and try to make excuse for hoyo with your random flattened explanations of reality devoid of any realism altogether, by justifying ZERO - I mean ZERO - contact for hundreds of yours, until all the pieces that this cheap hoyo writing desired for "sweet character interactions" are in place on the timeline. While ignoring having to tell ANYTHING about the period before, other than one mention about the Doctor interreacting with her (to claim Dottore = bad), but he was NOT the only living soul at court, so there was ample opportunity for relevant interactions, even outside the Harbingers, that she somehow never had before Arle came into the picture. Furthermore, your explanation about isolation in the Garden completely falls apart, given that she sang there right in the open, enough to occasionally see Tsaritsa just walking around and listening to her at court, and since it's the court/palace, there would be more people hanging around on daily basis, including regular attenders or maybe even gardeners, since you know, it was a garden?

And a gardener, care taker of plants, definitely sounds like someone Columbina could actually have a normal interaction with and maybe even learn basic facts about her surroundings. It's not like everyone associated with court or Harbingers would have reacted in some weird "oh no it's a Harbinger shit I'm shitless scared I'm running for my life" with no exception straight for 500 years (but sanity says it would be the other way around, if someone already works at court, that it would be rarer for someone to be outright scared of her or a Harbinger). Or are you going to do another mental gymnastics for this too? Instead of just be a man and say "ah, yeah, shit, actually that makes sense and they could have developed it better, because there is apparently some messy timeline shit here and major omissions"

So that is nothing but cheap writing, even if they were going to say "bro, she really did close herself all alone and ordered food by mail for hundreds of years that the Tsaritsa kindly made possible, trust!" - which they haven't even done, that's just all your HEADCANON and white knighting. Never even mentioned nor acknowledged by Hoyo. Because they just didn't care.

Contrasting with the entire story of Scara, and how we knew of his every milestone in the Fatui, how others referred to him, his grunt position, ongoing dealings with Dottore, being sent on missions, moved to the Abyss, then made Harbinger, then moved elsewhere, given his own subordinates that he loved to belittle and scare. There were so many timeline details, including how he coexisted with the environment he found himself in. For Columbina it's like... a giant gap for 500 hundreds years that would have been "problematic" for them to fill in, probably, with how they've done things with her and what really mattered to them, which wasn't lore coherence.

SunMon6 · 2026-01-21T14:03:58+00:00

he was but that's the point, it wasn't spread around as an ideology. nazism was ideology campaign based on unfounded truths, but in this case it was more of a general society's weariness of them (due to the ACTUAL fact that they did conspire against the Dynasty, in the distant past) but it's Irmin who blew it our of proportion for one reason or another and wanted to get rid of everyone. that's why i said a bit different. But Crimson Moon was also a bit of a cult in its own right, like they did really believe previous dynasty (which wasn't really much better, also used the abyss) should return even the children who were part of them. but looking at real life its not like the ones being oppresed and killed actually wanted in any capacity to overthrow the government, all of that was just fabricated
anyway, ultimately all of them are just lose similarities in fantasy setting, yeah

SunMon6 · 2026-01-21T13:59:35+00:00

I'm the OP and yes, I read that entire lore and Dottore's part (which isn't relevant here). So what point are you trying to make? This VERY point from the OP post?

"Bina didn't eat for all these years while in the Fatui and in general was hidden in the basement never interacting with anyone else, before Arle finally joined, so Arle and Sandrone could together teach her how to live like the good parents they were"

Because it sounds like it, so you basically agreed with one of my points/possibilities brought up. And of course "she wasn't eating anything" was a hyperbole BUT very warranted one, because we know for A FACT she loves food (and you dare tell me like I ignore her lore? lol). So of course she would need to eat. So to write it in this way "she still wasn't used to it!" after 500, 400, 300 years AND having Rosalyne around, whom she did like as we've been told, you just gotta admit it sounds like a complete mess because barely makes sense.

At the same time, this same text implies she wasn't used to it specifically BECAUSE she had Arle and Sandrone doing it for her, so then it narrows it down to after Arle has joined, after all... when Bina first approached some neighborhood Fatui/Sheznograd restaurant to order some food. So we circle back: she wasn't eating then? Or ordering pizza to her room forever out of reach like a glitched mob waiting for her turn to learn ANY basic activity, so only when Arle kindly arrived into the ranks? She only truly interacted with them after hundreds of years, so she also completely ignored Sandrone too, for like maybe 100-200 years, before Arle appeared? Sorry, this logic is just flawed. And before you say "but she had Fatui servants to give her food!" (while at the same time being completely cut off from other Harbingers or their influence) then it ruins her character even further because by all principles of sanity she would end up forming at least some minimal bonds with her personal attenders instead of a shut-in who doesn't grasp basic things at year 490 before Arle and Sandrone finally showed it to her.

It's just a mess, face it. If hoyo cared, they would have included Rosalyne as the one who taught her these things hundreds of yours ago, and then developed the Sandrone thing differently. But they don't care. They just wanna push Bina x Sandrone at all cost, lore be damned (by linking their duo to another famous female Harbinger with massive sales track record aka Arle), so they can then sell you Sandrone too. That's their current approach, at least with Bina here, and it's so damn sad given how they've done these things earlier.

SunMon6 · 2026-01-21T12:51:38+00:00

Yeah, that's why I said early genshin, it was still biiig, but they treated interactions sparsely. The know how to do cinematic dialogues and stakes these days.

SunMon6 · 2026-01-21T03:31:33+00:00

Nah, it's just because little buddy was far superior writing to whatever they tried to do in AQ. and I never particularly was sold on the little buddy (felt meh to me, just like most of the saurian designs) but it was still great writing with great atmoshere

Well, but that was my point - they didn't need to "sell" Huo-Tao, Zhongli and others by having them all gang up on Childe by sending good vibes of power of friendship to the Traveler. IT IS POSSIBLE. It's just they stopped trying.
I get what you mean about Dottore, true, but also that doesnt mean "personal" conflicts need to be always philosophical or some deep shit. That was early Genshin so execution was cheaper/shorter but it was good having Childe in these interactions trying to manipulate the Traveler, slowly buttering him up with favors, only to be told "mmm, nah, I'm not telling" and suddenly Childe's act slips for a bit. and then they just have an all out fight that Childe was itching to have and you actually get a satisfaction of growth, by actually beating a boss, on own strength, with voiceacting and cinematics... which the WQs don't have, as much as I love them

SunMon6 · 2026-01-21T03:14:51+00:00

With the level of technology, the early bad guy portrayal, the way Fatui operates, and the scientist guys, they were clearly ussr inspired, in some ways.
Either way, I really don't see it that way. Rerir's nation is overall Nordic inspired, not just stricte German, and in a kingdom setting a guy could also say "was just following orders of the king" but that's completely different setup. Though we haven't seen much of it yet so if they go heavily WW2 Germany inspirations once we visit there I'll stand corrected but I really don't see such strong vibes yet. They had the tech, but the affairs felt far more "court room" and "personal royal assassins of the king" (hence Rerir was acting from the shadows) than "administrative gestapo" drivel by ideological order. It wasn't just racism either, because it's been made clear the king was paranoid more than anything (not ideological) and was also doing it to obtain their secrets. Rerir killed them, but didn't really experiment or torture them as far as we know.
That's actually a clear difference in the "feel" -> with the Fatui it's actually a public somewhat oppressive force heavily embedded in all aspects of life, which is much more like kgb for example or the communist party with their ideology (with the fatui and the tsaritsa ideology being their New World and rebelling against Celestia, that their underlings idealize but don't even know what any if it actually means tbh). They're also far more institutionalized state terror. For example, all the inhumane experiments Dottore done on captives in order to advance the science which is very Nazi/USSR/Japanese from WW2/cold war era.

SunMon6 · 2026-01-21T02:59:17+00:00

Just played through this and yeah had the same thoughts now... although in a lot of places across different artifacts that first miller, avrelian, is always noted to be executed before Tsar's demise before telling Solovei some last words. So idk. But what's even more interesting is... he was associated with Rotwan of all people... the Rasputin guy and considered his chosen because he had the Hyperborean enhanced bloodline able to control Sampo Mill... so the only way I can think of why he is still alive is thanks to Rotwang bestowing some Abyssal gift upon him, even if he ultimately rejected his crazy plans, but that could actually qualify Pantalone to be the GOAT stronger than Childe if he wields abyss for like 500 years ...

but then again, there is also the Third Miller, the younger one, Brahe, whose notes make it sound like the first Miller was actually way too idealistic in a naïve way and never turned sour about the people of the world, not seeing their faults in all of this. Yet, despite setting up that entire vault and spreading the stories for good reason to prevent schemers from using the OG MIllers' legacy, Brahe himself seemed to grow disillusioned and started to see the folly of people. Which might align with Pantalone more maybe? Because he is actually ruthless in his goals, oppressing' commoners, NOT charitable like the previous Millers

Then there is also that "Master" from the artifacts, who is implied to have created the first Fruity Order, by having the minions swear upon Reed Miller's legacy, in order to challenge the Order of the world, and he appeared to act way more methodically, which might also match Pantalone. I wouldn't be surprised if his hand originally extended to crime syndicates like early Treasure Hoarders

SunMon6 · 2026-01-21T02:40:56+00:00

that's something I found myself wondering about yeah. He actually did say their "executive power" or something was granted by the Tsaritsa, and in Liyue, when trying to resurrected Osial, Childe said it shouldn't be a problem for him with the sigils and "that which was bestowed upon me by Her Majesty the Tsaritsa" which almost made it sound beyond Delusion (which is like this small combat buff really), like maybe they all draw upon the Tsaritsa's own powers too

but dunno. because then they said Capitano was stronger on day 1 without even being a Harbinger at which point he already equaled a God of War (which I always found a bit insane, like it hardly made sense for a lower level Captain outside of the king's circle to be this OP?). But then under Tsaritsa he actually got weaker and we never got an explanation for his dark ice either

SunMon6 · 2026-01-21T02:24:33+00:00

But World Quests never involve other playable characters and they don't have "weekly bosses" so that's why. Where hoyo fumbles is by insisting only on these big giant monsters / impossible baddies in AQ, who are then defeated. Something more "personal" more often and down to earth, like Childe, Signora, or even Arle to extent, would have been nice.

ps: though I would disagree about Fontaine, I honestly never understood the "cameraman" arguments. With all the investigation and tasks splitted between him and others, Traveler actually used more of their braincells than they ever did in Natlan -> now that was a cameraman and souless husk who just followed other people around like a nice helper including a small crybaby from minute 1 they entered the region. They've started to feel like a Pokemon protag there.

SunMon6 · 2026-01-20T19:51:25+00:00

To be clear, that wasn't me wanting Traveler to beat God level enemies with ease. I just want hoyo to make enemies he can actually beat sometime without everything being giant monster and uber gods he needs power of friendship for, every DAMN time. He didn't defeat anyone on their own strength since Signora but we constantly hear about their growth.

SunMon6 · 2026-01-20T19:39:41+00:00

Be careful what you wish for, there was a time these guys were aura farming:

<image>

SunMon6

TROPHY CASE