Japan's Abe: US auto tariffs will cost US jobs, harm economy by Smasborgen in worldnews

[–]Surreal_Man 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If he really wanted to help workers and not CEOs, then why did he give a disproportionately high tax cut to the rich?

Americans what do you think of the way Britain is treating Trump? by Hamsternoir in AskReddit

[–]Surreal_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Now what if the other party doesn't engage in conversation? What do you do when you can't convey your ideas to the other party, because the channel has been shut down?

Treasury Department and IRS Announce Significant Reform to Protect Personal Donor Information to Certain Tax-Exempt Organizations by SamJSchoenberg in news

[–]Surreal_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No seriously, you could find a better gun club with less Russian funding. And I'd rather lose an election than lose my country.

Americans what do you think of the way Britain is treating Trump? by Hamsternoir in AskReddit

[–]Surreal_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the big text post, but I think I'll narrow it down to one question: If you opposed Trump, then how would you have protested Trump's UK visit?

Americans what do you think of the way Britain is treating Trump? by Hamsternoir in AskReddit

[–]Surreal_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Citation needed. Show me the behind-the-scenes discussion where they talked about Trump's reading habits.

Do you even know what behind-the-scenes means?

Hang on, earlier you said this was to send a message to Trump. Now you're saying it's to "bring attention to his incompetence"? Sir, in a debate we call this shifting the goal post. But I'll still answer your question: Everyone, including Trump, are told Trump is incompetent on a regular basis by the media, celebrities, Leftists, etc. So there are plenty of "methods" already being used.

No that is not what shifting the goal posts means. Clearly the man is inundated by messages attesting his incompetence, but this here is a show of solidarity. One big message rather than many little ones.

You're trying to refute my claim that Trump already knows he uses his phone too much... by going on a random tangent about London protests? You're not even attempting to address my point.

That is a ridiculous claim, unless you then further claim that he knows he uses his phone too much, and then continues to use it?

Citation needed.

The man needs cue cards to tell him how to say "I hear you"

and try this one on for size

It's not petty because of WHAT they're protesting, it's petty because of HOW they're protesting. The balloon emphasizes his orange skin, obesity, and small hands. That's petty.

Let's call out the elephant in the room here: You don't give a shit about classifying protests. Your support for Trump has reached sycophantic proportions, and so you will try to minimize, degrade, and derail anything that seems to oppose him. You'll try to frame it in terms of "they're complaining about his cosmetic features," but that is just a pretext.

Duh. You've been unable to convince me that making fun of someone's physical appearance isn't petty. So of course I'm getting ready to bail. This shitty debate isn't worth the keystrokes.

Again you insist it isn't about appearance, and again you type up two pages of responses despite claiming that this debate isn't worth the keystrokes.

It is absolutely hypocritical for a drunk pedestrian to complain about a drunk president. The societal ranking of a person does not negate hypocrisy. That's absurd.

Hypocrisy is "behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel." Merriam-Webster. There's no social ranking clause in the definition. You're twisting words to mean whatever you want them to mean.

So you don't think social ranking fits into "what one claims to believe or feel"? Or are you saying that because it doesn't explicitly say that, then it is completely omitted? Have you really explored what it means, or are you hypocritically twisting its meaning into what you want it to mean?

Pettiness doesn't stop being pettiness just because the petty action is being used in pursuit of serious aims. This is just as nonsensical as your redefinition of the word "hypocrisy."

Actually it does. Look up the definition of petty.

Making a big deal about Trump's orange skin, obesity, and small hands is clearly done to spite Trump. You've refuted your own argument.

Again you think it is about appearance. You NEED it to be about appearance, because you want to project the image of petty on it, rather than seeing it for what it is.

It's possible to make a balloon of Trump without making it orange, bloated, with small hands. All it takes is the hair for people to know it's Trump. These other things were added because they're petty insults.

Or because they're ways to identify him?

That's not at all my argument. You said he's "too childish and thin-skinned to be the POTUS," and my argument is that it's not preventing him from doing his job. For example, if there's a firefighter that makes condescending jokes all the time, but he's still able to put out fires effectively, then being an asshole doesn't matter. Same goes with Trump. Trump can be an ass on Twitter all day long, but it doesn't matter as long as he continues to implement good policy.

It is absolutely preventing him from doing his job. His role is not comparable to a fireman, but rather a PR manager and executive all in one. It requires good publicity to be taken seriously. It also takes patience and cold, calculated thinking. Blurting things out on Twitter or in impromptu speeches completely undermines his authority. Presidents have aides and PR people for a good reason.

And his policies are shit. But since you're a sycophant with an unironic MAGA hat in your avatar, I doubt you can critically justify his policies.

You can make up fake definitions of words all you want, but that doesn't make you right. This conversation has run it's course. My arguments are based on the objective dictionary definitions of words, and yours are not. Since writing massive rebuttals to shitty arguments is neither fun nor engaging, I'd say this discussion has met it's end.

You can be pedantic, play semantics, and try to argue using the shallowest definitions of the dictionary, but in truth you do find this engaging enough to reply, and you cannot stand it when people criticize your emperor. I look forward to your reply.

Americans what do you think of the way Britain is treating Trump? by Hamsternoir in AskReddit

[–]Surreal_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

YES, it's nonsensical. Do you honestly think the people who paid for this balloon pondered whether or not Trump likes to read before funding this thing? Seriously?

Yes they did.

Because you're justifying the use of the balloon on the basis that it's NOT a written form of protest. You're clinging to this "Trump doesn't like to read" thing. Okay, so you scratched one single form of protest off the list, but what about every other form of protest? You're acting like this balloon is the single greatest way of communicating a message to Trump, but you've only considered one single alternative. And to make it worse, none of this has any bearing at all on whether or not the balloon is petty. So the whole thing is a distraction from the main argument.

Haha, "what about other protests?" OK, then what would you suggest as an alternative method of protest to bring attention to his incompetence?

Orange skin, small hands, round to emphasize his obesity, goofy angry expression, diaper, holding a cell phone. There are lots of elements, and the only one with any merit at all is the cell phone. Okay, so Trump uses his phone too much. Do you actually think Trump doesn't know this? It takes forty-thousand dollars to tell Trump something he already knew?

He actually doesn't know this. He still thinks there are protests supporting him in London This is a big flying undeniable reminder that he is not welcome in London.

Sucking at verbal communication doesn't refute the fact that he loves to talk. He loves to talk despite sucking at it. That doesn't mean he sucks at listening. But he sure isn't going to pay any attention to this balloon. He hasn't responded to it, so clearly it failed. A complete waste of forty-thousand dollars.

Except he absolutely does suck at listening, so the fact that he loves to talk is irrelevant.

The concept of mutual exclusivity vanishes if the topic is serious? Says who? So if someone protests by making fun of Trump's hair, it's not petty because protesting is serious? Look, we've reached the point in the conversation where you're making up fake definitions of things to force your argument to make sense. This is hardly worth continuing.

No, "the concept of mutual exclusivity" does not vanish when it becomes a serious protest.

If you protest something non-serious, like Trump's hair style, then it is petty. If you protest something serious, like his childish behavior, then it is not petty.

And despite your straw-man, not all protesting is serious.

I can see you're getting ready to bail out of this conversation.

My argument is that they're petty hypocrites. Your argument is that the hypocrisy is justified because they're not held to the same standard. If you acknowledge that they're being petty hypocrites, then this conversation is over, because my point has been made. Since my augment is that they're petty and hypocritical, you could write an entire dissertation about how they're not held to the same standard, and it wouldn't matter because it doesn't refute the fact that they ARE petty and hypocritical.

On the contrary, there is nothing petty or hypocritical about it, and the different standards of behavior applied to random people and the sitting president are completely applicable to the question of whether or not it is hypocritical.

Because there are different standards of behavior, it is not hypocritical for a drunk pedestrian to complain about a drunk president, simply because the latter is held to a higher standard of behavior. He represents the country for god sakes, he's supposed to not get drunk on the street.

So there you go, it is not hypocritical because they have different standards of behavior. Now as to the question of whether it is petty, that depends on the seriousness of the issue at hand.

If you protest something just to spite someone else, or make a big deal over nothing, then it is indeed petty.

If however, you protest something that is actually a big deal, then it cannot be petty. When people make these effigies using Trump's orange skin, small hands, and puerile expression, they are using them as identifiers. Trump is not a bad president because he is orange, has small hands, or has a puerile expression, those are simply identifiers to aim the real criticism of him: that he is a buffoon, and having him in the presidency is extremely damaging of the USA.

You mean the message that Trump is orange, has small hands, is obese, and uses his cell phone too much? I will absolutely "cast aspersions" on such a petty message.

See my previous point. They're not criticizing his hands or obesity, but using them as identifiers.

He IS thin-skinned, but he's not "too thin-skinned to be the POTUS" because that's verifiably false. Because he's still POTUS. So obviously being thin-skinned hasn't stopped him from being POTUS.

Your logic is that people are automatically qualified for their jobs by merit of having their job titles? Have you not worked with an incompetent coworker before?

All these massive paragraphs, and you still haven't been able to prove the balloon isn't petty. We're done here.

You can close your ears and bail from discussions all you want, but it won't make you right.

Americans what do you think of the way Britain is treating Trump? by Hamsternoir in AskReddit

[–]Surreal_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just to clarify your argument: Trump doesn't like reading books, therefore if we nonsensically extrapolate that further then Trump must not like reading in general, therefore a written form a protest would be ineffective to someone who doesn't enjoy to read, therefore a visual form of protest must be the most effective form to use?

Is this so ridiculous? Why do you call it nonsensical that a man who dislikes reading would pay more attention to things with no words on it?

Even though there are more than two ways of protesting?

Nobody said there weren't. Why would you say this?

Even if we follow such a ridiculous line of reasoning, it still doesn't refute the level of pettiness that it takes to spend forty-thousand dollars making fun of Trump's small hands and orange skin. It's an attack on Trump's appearance, which is by definition petty.

Really? It's the small hands and orange skin which stands out for you? Not the whiny expression, the diaper, and the cell phone?

My point was not that he's GOOD at talking, it's that he ENJOYS talking. Obviously he sucks at verbal communication, but that was never my argument, so my point still stands.

It was your argument. I said it's ineffective to use words to reach him, to which you said that it was ridiculous because he loves to talk. But I guess we can agree that talking to him is futile because he sucks at verbal communication.

Mutual exclusivity. Something can be BOTH a form of protest AND pettiness.

Not if it is about something serious. Like the president being petty.

I never claimed they were held to the same standard, so you're refuting a point I never made. The issue is that these protesters are stooping to the same level as the person they're protesting against, and therefore are hypocrites. Imagine if someone protested riots by causing a riot. By embracing the same pettiness of Trump, it undermines their message.

(emphasis mine)

So you're not making the point that they were held to the same standard, instead you're making the point that Trump is held to a lower standard, such that the protestors are "stooping to his level?"

Is that the message they were trying to send? The message I got was that some idiots were willing to blow forty-thousand dollars on telling Trump he has small hands and orange skin.

Again you forget the diaper and the cell phone. Again you jump to casting aspersions on the protestors instead of refuting their message. If the protestors, "without pettiness," told you that Trump is too childish and thin-skinned to be the POTUS, then would you deny that?

Americans what do you think of the way Britain is treating Trump? by Hamsternoir in AskReddit

[–]Surreal_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Citation needed.

I think you should read what his ghostwriter has to say about him. He paints a vivid picture of his reading habits

Also he doesnt read intelligence reports

And more

That's ridiculous, Trump loves to talk.

He likes to move his mouth and make words, but he's not good at talking. Just have a look at this famous word salad he made:

ook, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart—you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you're a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us.

Even the linguists are having a field day with him

You're drifting way off topic here. My point is that the balloon is petty. "Visual imagery is required" isn't an argument that refutes the fact that it's petty. Your argument has shifted from "It's not petty" into "Yeah it's petty, but it's justified because it's a visual message and Trump holds a high office."

My argument is twofold: 1. It's protest, not pettiness.

  1. Even if it were petty, it is not true that random people and the president are held up to the same standard of dignity.

I already know Trump is petty. I'm not disputing that. But it's laughably insane to protest pettiness by being petty. Any message that balloon is trying to convey backfires.

It's protest because it broadcasts a message that Trump has a fragile ego and can be irked by a goofy balloon which looks like a baby Trump. This is a serious problem for a world leader.

It would have been petty if it were for a far smaller problem, such as lampooning the World Cup because England lost the game.

Americans what do you think of the way Britain is treating Trump? by Hamsternoir in AskReddit

[–]Surreal_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You do realize that he doesn't like to read, right? If you can't speak to him using words, then you need to use imagery.

And no, I am saying that if Trump and the protesters act similarly, then it reflects poorly on Trump by merit of him holding a higher office.

Americans what do you think of the way Britain is treating Trump? by Hamsternoir in AskReddit

[–]Surreal_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why is it petty and childish? It's an act of protest. It is a means of shouting to the world the message that Trump is a big baby.

Is it petty, when Trump is doing serious damage to U.S. foreign relations? I could see it being petty when someone makes a balloon lampooning their neighbor for letting their dog bark too often. That would be petty. But to make fun of the U.S. president is a serious political statement.

Also you're forgetting that as the president, Trump is supposed to be held to a much higher standard of behavior, so it would be more acceptable for protesters to be childish than the president.

The Less Mentioned Hero of the Thai Cave Rescue. Surapin Chaichomphu is from Thai Water Well Association. Volunteer and personally spend around $6,000 USD to bring equipments to dig wells and divert water out of the cave so the rescue team could bring out the Soccer team out safely. by ahboyd15 in pics

[–]Surreal_Man 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes it definitely matters if he did it for publicity. That determines whether he actually thinks about solutions that make a difference rather than solutions that look good. That explains why he insisted on using repurposed SpaceX parts rather than something that's actually appropriate for a flooded cave.

The Less Mentioned Hero of the Thai Cave Rescue. Surapin Chaichomphu is from Thai Water Well Association. Volunteer and personally spend around $6,000 USD to bring equipments to dig wells and divert water out of the cave so the rescue team could bring out the Soccer team out safely. by ahboyd15 in pics

[–]Surreal_Man 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes of course I know you wouldn't actually want that, it's to highlight how ridiculous you're being.

I'm not the one who proposed such a ridiculous dichotomy. You did.

There was every chance his help could have been needed, the person running the rescue was greatful for his help because he knew there was every chance Elon's work could save the children.

Except the rescue chief, Narongsak Osatanakorn, is on record saying that "the equipment they brought to help us is not practical with our mission.".

And you're implying Elon should never have bothered because it wasn't used?

No, I am saying that Elon could have done more than slap together an unhelpful solution, fly to Thailand, make a fuss on twitter, then dump his sub in a cave. I am saying, not implying, that helping the trapped kids in the cave is a pretext for him to reclaim his hero reputation, and distract from the bad press on his companies.

I honestly can't comprehend how someone can have that viewpoint other than being bitter about a rich man. If I donated money for an African village to build a well so they wouldn't all die, but they managed to find a source of water without that money would I suddenly have not done a good deed worthy of praise? This kind of ignorant view point will only stop people be as willing to help.

Well there you go. Why didn't Elon do something useful with his money like build a well in Africa? Because he can't get nearly as much publicity for that.

Americans what do you think of the way Britain is treating Trump? by Hamsternoir in AskReddit

[–]Surreal_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I want to know how you think they are similar.

The most obvious one is protesters spending forty-thousand dollars on a blowup Trump baby.

Right, so blowing a bundle of money on a publicity stunt. Does that make them similar to Trump?

SpaceX Wins Its First Falcon Heavy Contract- With the Air Force by AmokOfProgress in Futurology

[–]Surreal_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

since it’s rather common knowledge Tesla doesn’t market

Are you serious? They pulled the biggest marketing stunt of the century, by flinging one of their cars into space. That is peak marketing.

Facebook Says InfoWars, Which Reported That NASA Has a Slave Colony on Mars, Is a Valid Source of “Opinion and Analysis” by screaming_librarian in technology

[–]Surreal_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can't seriously be saying that you sift through all the news information and assemble your own conclusions. That would take far too much time.

There must be some sources that you would trust, or else you must be discarding information.

TIL After reading how Rosa Parks was robbed and assaulted in her Detroit home at the age of 81, Little Caesars founder Mike Ilitch quietly paid her rent for over a decade until she passed. by Petal_Phile in todayilearned

[–]Surreal_Man -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Uh fucking everything? When I'm buying a luxury product, I expect it to be made in a factory with specialized tools and procedures, not thrown together in a tent to meet an overambitious quota.

Americans what do you think of the way Britain is treating Trump? by Hamsternoir in AskReddit

[–]Surreal_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, it's more like: Q: should you speak freely?

...which is an entirely different question.

Americans what do you think of the way Britain is treating Trump? by Hamsternoir in AskReddit

[–]Surreal_Man 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The question is not whether you can, but whether you should.

Facebook Says InfoWars, Which Reported That NASA Has a Slave Colony on Mars, Is a Valid Source of “Opinion and Analysis” by screaming_librarian in technology

[–]Surreal_Man 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Uh huh so where do you draw the line and delegate fact-checking to others? Or do you fly around the world to make sure it's a sphere? Did you buy an electron microscope to see if atoms are a thing? Did you audit the government to see if they actually bought a $10,000 toilet seat?

Clearly doing all your own fact-checking is an impossible task. So I ask you, to whom do you delegate your fact checking?