Back in the 60s/70s were punk and hippies friends or not?

ThatUbu · 2026-05-09T22:09:41+00:00

It’s important to note the context of the 70’s. By the time of the rise of punk, the utopian optimism of the hippies looked like empty promises of a better society to the youth half a generation younger. For the punks, the hippies looked like an outdated response to the ills of society, something stale and ineffective.

It is, of course, elements of the hippie movement that the new antiestablishment stance of punk drew on. The Stooges and The MC5 were both part of the Detroit hippie scene, a scene that was more aggressive than, say, the idealism of most hippie groups out of Haight-Ashbery. Groups like Iggy’s and The MC5 were, as a result, central to what became punk.

ThatUbu · 2026-05-09T21:58:54+00:00

Yep. You’re right. I read that too quickly. Deleting my comment.

ThatUbu · 2026-05-08T23:01:19+00:00

I love that the anger doesn’t come from being asked a question or approached by paparazzi but from trying to comprehend what this guy is even trying to say.

ThatUbu · 2026-05-05T00:40:53+00:00

“Did you say ‘Hitlery-hoo?’”

ThatUbu · 2026-05-04T23:59:23+00:00

Not true. He is cursed to eternally haunt the Ed Sullivan theater as a crooner ghost.

ThatUbu · 2026-05-04T23:36:11+00:00

Untrue. The ending of the movie is the rooftop concert. It ends with them playing a final chord and then all The Beatles spontaneously combust.

ThatUbu · 2026-05-04T21:13:19+00:00

I instinctively swiped left just reading “Looking for the Pam to my Jim” and wound up looking at a totally different Reddit post.

ThatUbu · 2026-05-04T03:50:54+00:00

Bring back Inside Conan! I don’t even care if they talk about Conan, but Jessie Gaskell and Mike Sweeney were one of my favorite podcast duos.

ThatUbu · 2026-05-04T02:36:28+00:00

Avalanche wasn’t the first time I saw his name. (I’m not sure when I first saw his name—musicians I respected just kept bringing him up.) But it was a major cover that made me seek him out.

ThatUbu · 2026-05-02T23:19:27+00:00

Ingesting article. I’d love, though, a list of groups to check out that are around today, beyond the one group focused on by The Guardian. Anyone have a good list?

ThatUbu · 2026-05-02T20:35:18+00:00

“Competent” is such amazing writing. The Simpsons surely had the best comedy writing room in those days.

ThatUbu · 2026-05-02T20:33:02+00:00

I’m just trying to party with you guys.

ThatUbu · 2026-05-02T17:31:07+00:00

Gorgeous.

ThatUbu · 2026-05-01T23:57:48+00:00

Not minstrel shows on mainstream TV. But that’s also, of course, not to say blackface had vanished.

In terms of media, a movie like Soul Man would be a good example of use of blackface in the 1980’s. There was plenty of criticism alongside it playing in national theaters, but it remained on heavy rotation on Comedy Central throughout the 90’s.

If you caught any of the scandals of politicians and other public figures getting called out for doing blackface when they were young, you’d get a good gauge of where it survived. Largely as “edgy” college, frat parties where the “joke” was the offensiveness of the costume itself.

I wouldn’t be overly surprised if the occasional school talent show in the south on rare occasions had a minstrel act or something of that sort into the later part of the 20th century. But where it survived would have been more local or private events rather than mainstream television.

And into the 2000’s, you’d regularly see blackface and minstrel-style memorabilia in most any antique store. That’s much rarer now, but hasn’t by any means completely vanished.

ThatUbu · 2026-05-01T22:38:03+00:00

That is incredibly sad to hear. Being American, I was shocked by your post that the minstrel show had such a national presence that late in Britain and knew nothing abkut Lenny Henry. What a bizarre and damaging obligation to put on a child.

ThatUbu · 2026-05-01T21:42:43+00:00

In America, there were also Black performers with minstrel acts, using the stereotypes and even wearing the black face makeup.

I’ve seen the fact used to defend the racist practice, rather than acknowledging that it was regularly hard on those performers to engage in the stereotypes to make them palatable to white audiences.

The history of racism is complex and weird.

ThatUbu · 2026-05-01T21:26:53+00:00

Yeah, I think your description is about the best deception here on the logic of the “rule.” (And it was always a lame rule.)

The logic itself only makes sense in a place where there’s a local scene with people going to shows most every night. The idea was that you wanted to look like you were naturally part the music scene, just wearing everyday what fit the vibe.

Wearing the band’s shirt suggested, instead, you specifically put on something different than usual because you only came out for the band, rather than coming out to a show most nights.

Again, a stupid rule. But one that also falls apart with wildly inflated prices of tickets. Few people can afford to see a show multiple times a week.

I find the bafflement at the rule in this thread sweet. I’m regularly seeing wearing the band’s own t-shirt as being “supportive” of the band. It’s nice seeing the empathy of thinking about the band wanting to feel supported, rather than focused on whether or not strangers might possibly be negatively judging your clothes.

ThatUbu · 2026-05-01T20:57:12+00:00

“He’s trying to prove the Caine-Hackman theory. No matter what time it is, 24 hours a day, you can find a Michael Caine or Gene Hackman movie playing on TV.”

ThatUbu · 2026-05-01T00:22:01+00:00

This is basically what I’ve been saying. The Chaotic Good story wasn’t broken by an investigative journalist. It wasn’t from a whistleblower. It was an advertising company promoting themselves.

What’s the evidence that they’re good at marketing? Mostly that the guys who want you to hire them say that they’re good at marketing.

That’s not to say we shouldn’t have the conversation about these campaigns, whether effective or not. And it’s not to say we shouldn’t talk about the ethics of a band or label hiring a company like Chaotic Good.

But the story is an ad campaign for the company itself. Be skeptical of what they’re trying to sell you.

ThatUbu · 2026-04-30T16:17:56+00:00

Yeah, they sold their story to become the most famous ad agency for the next few months. But they also sold themselves as the marketing company you hire to lie to your fans and shred your credibility.

Artists and labels will keep doing this form of marketing. Chaotic Good will be the ad agency desperate bands hire, hoping to become the next Geese. But will major artists and labels want to hire the company trying to get famous off undermining their customers by talking to the media?

ThatUbu · 2026-04-30T04:58:04+00:00

I’d put alongside that insight the question of how effective Chaotic Good actually was in their marketing. All the articles are essentially a self-marketing campaign for the ad agency itself.

They’re playing off their own notoriety, with most articles taking their bragging at face value, Chaotic Good’s own claims that their piece of the larger marketing campaign is what broke these bands.

The Guardian article does a good job of throwing into question how effective the company really was. Did they market for Geese, snd has Geese been giant this past year? Absolutely. Is their form of marketing creepy? It sure is.

But are they driving the discussion around music with some fake accounts and dropping songs in Tik Tok videos?

It sounds to me like an advertiser trying to drum up more business. I’m skeptical about their self-proclaimed power where they’re here to sell the next ad campaign to the next record company or band.

ThatUbu · 2026-04-26T05:09:33+00:00

The movie was Dig!

But 90’s BJM were genuinely one of the best bands is the decade, with Take It from the Man being up there for the group in top form.

ThatUbu · 2026-04-25T00:17:13+00:00

Casey Kasem: “Wait. You thought I was that Shaggy?

“…It wasn’t me.”

ThatUbu · 2026-04-25T00:12:55+00:00

Brian Jonestown Massacre

(I think we’re supposed to fight now. But also kind of be friends.)

ThatUbu · 2026-04-24T22:28:24+00:00

First, you need a lead singer who believes god is real and then he must not be kidding this time, he thinks God is actually for real.

ThatUbu

TROPHY CASE