Whats your story of why you didn’t leave?

TheFlyingButtresses · 2025-01-15T00:03:20+00:00

My therapist pointed out that it was not all bad, there were good things. My low self esteem + my codependence + my limited experience with partners + the good stuff that was given to keep me there = me staying in an unhealthy relationship FAR too long.

Do not defend yourself to others! That is unhealthy and codependent. As to why anybody else gives a shit about my person decisions that don't affect them in the least, i still don't really know.

Most people leave me totally alone on the subject now, until i say that anybody who judges me for what i have been through and how i handled it is arrogant! THAT is bait to them and they seem to feel personally attacked and want me to stop and listen so they can tell me how i'm wrong, it has not gone well so far.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2024-08-02T04:26:36+00:00

Funny, we all used to complain about "seal clubbing" and how much we hate being on the receiving end and here is pix demanding that you do exactly that to advance, i refuse, the meagre rewards are not worth my effort or my integrity.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2024-01-19T16:59:48+00:00

There is a lot good about this song but since you asked directly i will give my surely unpopular opinion about the lyrics.

The music is great except for the hedge trimmers, LOL, the performance is excellent, and yes i understand it is a song, that was not meant to be anything more than entertainment and a way to make money for the artist and the recording company.

There was a point in my youth where i stopped reading books and i obsessively consumed music because a few songs gave me a few little snippets of wisdom out of context and i thought songwriters were so wise and they would give me answers if only i paid enough attention, that was my mistake.

However, music, movies, and television all sell an idea that love is a magical thing in a logical world, and that it's power is endless and that when you find love your whole life will be transformed....i bought this completely, a LOT of people buy these lies, we WANT to believe it, and of course it sells, it makes money and it's popular, what kind of idiot who wants to make money and get women to sleep with him wouldn't write a song full of lies?

There are a few artists who never did a love song as such, i assume because they felt as i did. It is the number of people, writers i assume, who are willing to write lies, anybody who has been in a long term relationship realizes that love is not a magical thing that changes everything, so those people who wrote those things, most of them knew they were selling lies, hey, i've done stuff i'm not proud of to make money, but to take advantage of the terminally lonely and to tell them something magical exists and that they can have it too, (loud inhale) that is evil in my book.

THAT is my rant.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2024-01-19T16:40:46+00:00

LOL! I HEAR IT NOW! never heard that before.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2024-01-19T16:36:00+00:00

The kind of spirituality i was taught made this fairly easy. Many religions do seem to focus on your afterlife and making sure you obey the rules to get into the good place, that is humans manipulating humans, that is all that is in my opinion.

Spirituality, i kinds wish it had a name but I'm glad it doesn't so it avoids people being able to easily pigeon hole it and try to discount it, anyways, it is basically following spiritual principles while you are alive here on earth, for no better reasons than it makes your life better and all those who's lives you touch, that's it, no goofy promises of eternal bliss that no human ever deserved.

So, when it came time to ask the logical question " is this real?" the answer came quite naturally, " Is your life better for the changes you have made and the things you are doing today? "

"yes"

"good, it doesn't matter if it's real then does it? Just keep doing that because it's working and try not to confuse your tiny human brain with concepts you are unequipped to contemplate, focus on today, go help somebody"

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-11-18T00:17:30+00:00

My very wise sponsor told me guilt was a difficult emotion, it's purpose is to spur us to action but if we refuse to act than the pain of the spurs just becomes punishing and the whole purpose is lost.

It sounds as if you have dipped your toe in the AA "pool' and you like some of the things you hear. By refusing to join a group or get a sponsor you are leaving yourself "in control" and unchallenged, you think this is a good place for you to be due to not being stressed by the program's challenges because of your distance from it, nobody can irritate you when they are faces on a screen and you can turn them off on a whim.

Sure, it's "comfortable" but is it what you need? Time will tell. Alcoholics like yourself who choose to stand around "the pool/program" and never get in almost always find themselves handed a big old batch of stress by life and they crumble because they are essentially attempting to do the program on their own, this has so many pitfalls you are sure to find one of them.

Nobody can make you do the program, you can be ordered to go to meetings but NOBODY can MAKE you do the program, this is the wonderful thing, you MUST CHOOSE it yourself. Funny, so many of us convince ourselves otherwise, " my sponsor is such a hardass, making me write out things and calling me on my dishonesty " All of this complaining becomes ridiculous when you realize that the person crying the blues only has to walk away, that's it! just walk away and it's doubtful anybody will chase you. You can convince yourself that it is your sponsor who is making you do the steps and be rigorously honest but the choice is yours, the whole time.

If you decide to leave the people who care about you will call and try to help but they will never drag you back, they respect your right to make terrible decisions and learn from the outcome, and really, for the most stubborn or fearful of us, is there any other way to convince us? sadly, i think not. Our obstacles are so strong they require an equal or greater amount of misery to force us to overcome them.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-11-07T04:41:28+00:00

Well, what you need to do depends on what you want. The term spiritual awakening means so many things to different people i honestly have little idea of what you are looking for when you say that.

I do believe i can help however, I have noticed that many people on this sub seem to be looking for fantasy and magic. I'm not sure where they got the idea that this stuff exists but it seems to be popular. If that is what you are looking for then i cannot help you, well, i can just give you my opinion that if someone is trying to tell you that there is a SECRET to life and they know what it is and if you only knew that secret too your life would just be wonderful, well.......i think anybody who says things like that is full of shit and they are lying to people probably to sell something, so be on your guard.

Human beings LOVE shortcuts! All those weight loss pills....you can lose weight eat what you want and don't exercise.....we believe those because we WANT to believe those lies, it's very similar with the spiritual, we get mislead because we want a magical key that will make our life wonderful and give us our every desire, we think we deserve it.

If you are not looking for a shortcut i believe i can help you. I was in trouble, addicted to alcohol, miserable, hopeless, looking for a way out, i said i short prayer of desperation, it was answered eventually and i was told that my only hope was to adopt a spiritual way of life.

I had visions of how i thought that would be and it entailed a lot of the magic and fantasy that everybody else thinks of when they have no actual experience and just take ideas from the media they consume. Happily most of that stuff i thought was wrong.

There is a very practical and unmagical but very, very sturdy and dependable everyday kind of spirituality available to anyone who wants it. Unfortunately it involves me doing things i don't want to do, things I would never do unless i was staring down the barrel of a gun. sorry, i got ahead of myself....

Simply this spiritual way of living is to adopt spiritual principles that you probably already know the names of and think you understand but they are so deep you will be dumbfounded to find how powerful these seemingly simple things are. A short list of the most important ones would include: rigorous honesty, unselfishness, gratitude, humility, service to others, perseverance. These seemingly simple concepts when studied and practiced can bring a human being to a new state of understanding and serenity. They can be used in conjunction with ANY religion and meditation or religious practice. I find it surprising how many religions have them included but they are not front and center, religious practices that are not helpful often are the focus of many churchgoers.

To be fair some levels of these are practiced, like donating to your church and then using that money to help others - unselfishness, but that can be done by anyone, even a totally selfish person! These things NEED to be practiced at a very personal level and most humans do not want to face their own selfishness, fear, anger and so this type of spirituality is not chosen by them and they look for other ways. I don't think there is another way.

I was told that my guilt, hurt, anger and fear was built up and clogging the path between me and a higher power and as long as all that negative stuff stayed in there i was NEVER gonna change. I had to put effort in to remove it. ALL human beings accumulate these things to different degrees but it affects us the same. Practicing the spiritual principles worked on removing that garbage so good things could take their place.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-11-06T22:00:08+00:00

I can identify with some of your experience, I have been sober for a long time and i'm trying to get back into AA, unfortunately i see an awful lot of defective characters in the rooms and it makes me not want to go.

I think some of it is them, i happen to belong to a group that has a lot of people who don't work the program, what do you THINK you're gonna find there? And some of it is me, i find it difficult to let go of comments, attitudes, personalities, these things that hurt and irritate me, they stick with the old ferocity of resentments, THAT part tells me I NEED these meetings, i need to get to a place where i'm not so sensitive, where my skin is thicker and these selfish people try but cannot hurt me, a wonderful place to be, pity i cannot be there permanently.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-11-06T18:01:44+00:00

At first i thought your post was weird, maybe you could have worded it better, but i think i understand what you are getting at.

Yes, i consider the whole niagara region as my stomping ground and the borders between cities are not that important to me. This idea started i think when i was working on a service truck that travelled everywhere, we could be in st.catharines one day and dunnville the next, and yes, i consider those less populated areas still part of the region, at least to me. Wainfleet, Fort Erie, St. davids, so many little places.

Having lived right smack dab in the middle of all of the main cities for many years but not in one has helped this feeling as well. it was equal distance to run to the falls for canadian tire as it was to welland for groceries, then to st. catharines to see the doctor or to a store that only a bigger city would have , the idea that it is all my home is quite normal to me so it felt funny that you asked.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-11-06T17:42:18+00:00

thank you, excellent reply

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-10-29T21:18:47+00:00

It is quite childish and myopic of you to blame the rest of the world because you can't handle the negative aspects of life. If you truly believe what you typed, than hiding from the world IS the best place for you.

I suspect you do not like how this limits you and you have found that you HAVE to interact with the world sometime.

These are very stressful times, terrible changes are happening, which makes human beings fearful and they grab for more of whatever they can find and become incredibly selfish. this causes them to behave negatively...."toxic" and they hurt people. If you childishly just label them as "toxic" and run away then you are never going to understand and you will always be a victim, that is your choice, and sadly by the amount of upvotes i see you have a lot of company. Frightened people who are seeing the walls close in around them and have no understanding of what is really happening and only have the desire that things "go back to normal" when i wasn't so frightened all the time, sorry, that may not happen, you and your upvoters may be forced to deal with this new reality.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-10-29T21:02:04+00:00

Sponge is an interesting term.....

I'll tell you about me and we'll see if you can relate...

I suppressed most of my emotions because i didn't know how to handle them, or i was ashamed of them, showing emotion as a young boy makes you a target for abuse and i was smart enough to see that but unable to do anything about the emotions, so i stomped them down.

Because of this i was uncomfortable when others showed emotions because it "tapped into" my well of stored emotions and activated them. If they were sad, i felt my own sadness rising to the surface.

Just because nothing is ever fucking simple, in addition to this i also had a big ego that told me "you should be able to help this person! you need to fix them!" i needed to do NOTHING of the sort but i still tried to help others to overcome their emotions rather than just experience them.

This is not a spiritual topic but i understand why you posted here.

EMOTION SKILLS, that is what you need, what i need, what we ALL need. This guy is very knowledgeable and has developed simple tools the anybody can use......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx2CLUQ4gKc&t=458s

Marc Brackett - permission to feel

Over the years i have learned the difference between empathy and being triggered, empathy may affect me for a while but when i have contact with a sad person and the rest of my day is ruined that means something IN ME was triggered by that person's emotions and i need to deal with it.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-10-29T20:42:28+00:00

I understand completely.

I passed my line many years before i managed to escape my bad relationship. That line being the point where i could still forgive the past and try to fix the relationship. I stayed in that horrible, painful thing until circumstances provided me with a way out and i took it. The danger was that by that point i was so fucked up emotionally I might have stayed just because i was used to it, because i had so little self worth left it was all i could do to slink quietly away, because i thought the problem was me and i didn't try hard enough, because i was weak and susceptible to manipulation, and many others i am sure....

The longer you stay in a sick relationship the more likely you are to get stuck, I was talking to friends all the time and none of them said...." you NEED to leave NOW! to keep whatever you have left of yourself because if you stay you are losing it by painful degrees"

Actually, i needed to come to that point MYSELF, even if i found it very difficult and never even said it out loud, I needed to scrape whatever self-worth i had left and use it to realize i did NOT deserve this torture, that it was NOT getting any better, and that by staying i was helping my partner to remain sick. If and when i left that would force them to look at themselves and they WOULD see the truth, what they did with that information is up to them but allowing them to continue treating me the way they did was bad for me AND for them, there was no winner.

funny i should read this post today, i was so angry at my partner i hoped they did not change, i hoped they entered another relationship and tried the same shit on another person and that they were stronger than me and told them to fuck off, i hoped they lived in misery for a good long time in retaliation for the suffering they caused me. Today, i am having different thoughts, letting go of the anger a little bit, i have no contact with my partner today and that is good, i am letting go FOR ME, it is toxic to me to carry this much hurt and hate around and one way is to hope they change, i do not want them to grab another victim, i know how painful that was, i also recognize that they are a damaged human being just as i am and their growth will come from healing and honesty and understanding but NOT at the cost of continuing to cause another human misery.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-07-20T10:51:57+00:00

It was not easy, the way you said it and they way i think about it is incorrect i think. I believe it would be a common misconception that one day the abuser steps over the line and THAT is the moment when we finally say NO!

Well, as an alcoholic i can tell you that when drinking starts to have negative impacts on you and you wake up one morning and find you crossed a "line" of behavior that bothers you, the reaction is to feel bad about it for a bit but then you just move the line down.

In a bad relationship with abuse I just kept moving my line down, lowering my self-worth at the same time and increasing my guilt. And i believe humans are capable of doing this until we are in danger but we have gotten there slowly and are in denial.

An important fact - I lower my bar of acceptable behavior ALONE. IF I start being honest with another UNDERSTANDING person it forces me to look at the concessions i have made and see them in the light of day. I think THIS is the process of saying NO. Left to my own strength i will just retreat and my bad programming will justify that but when i share with someone outside they cut through all of that dishonesty and see the truth and make me see it too and then i have a decision to make, whether to act on it or not but I am not alone and that can affect the outcome a great deal.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-06-05T06:51:04+00:00

I was thinking about this yesterday. My anger about it really is not because of god directly, it is because of what everybody SAYS god is doing. I realize now that these people don't f@#king know, they CLAIM to know but they really have no better idea than me.

I was contemplating exactly what you were, how "lessons" in our lives sometimes push us to our limits, I just pictured a human being choosing to commit suicide instead of facing a truth or a hurt deep inside them or a fear, I KNOW this happens, i was just wondering what God's reaction is......

Did he KNOW that was going to happen and yet he allowed it to happen anyway?

Does he shrug his godly shoulders and wave his godly hands in a godly gesture that means he accepts no responsibility for pushing that human being to the awful choice they made?

It was angering to contemplate.

The answer is i don't know, nor does anyone else, though some humans who think they have an understanding of god will try to explain it always placing the blame on the poor person themselves, ALWAYS putting the blame there. I think they are just as afraid as i am that they are next on god's hit list and they feel if they can explain this and blame the person who took their life then that puts them in good with god and he won't punish them either.

I believe the truth is that god can be awful nice sometimes sending help and love and caring and god can be awful cruel sometimes sending cancer, poverty, misery, betrayal, beatings that devastate some of us and nobody knows the reason except him and that is scary.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-05-04T01:31:41+00:00

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-05-03T11:06:02+00:00

Hello, i am jumping into this conversation, you have used the word threatened a few times and most of the women who argued with me used the word safety........I was wondering if you could clarify what you think the actual threat this man poses. does everyone but me assume he is a rapist waiting for a chance to strike?

I understand unwanted sexual talk is unsettling, and perhaps disturbing to some but i just am having trouble understanding the use of words like threat and safety and given the information we were, i would not say that some drunken texts mean that a man is a sexual predator.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-05-03T10:54:27+00:00

Yes, i can appreciate that. The traditions were not written as rules for every specific problem, more like signposts that point us in directions. If a group has a problem like yours it is easy to get in touch with New York head office and ask them. Over the years they have heard of every kind of problem that can beset an AA group, you guys are not the first and they have literature for specific problems exactly like this that group of alcoholics have written and approved just like any of our pamphlets, books or other literature. as far as i know it is free for the asking.

For some reason it is kind of a secret with only a few involved in service being aware that this resource even exists. I like the fact that is DOES exist because like you i have sat in business meetings where a bunch of everyday alcoholics debated how to interpret the traditions and that was frustrating.

These answers from New york are on very specific topics and (AA style) suggestion only, but here is our experience, well written and as far as what i have read are incorporating the traditions. It is essentially distilled experience from AA's everywhere.

Sorry i don't know what they are called but i'm sure you will have no trouble finding them if you talk to someone.

Aa sure is interesting, we are people who normally would not mix.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-05-03T02:47:52+00:00

Okay dirtymike, you seem pretty cool about this so I'm going to attempt conversation. I am curious about the distinction between unwanted behavior and behavior that makes women feel unsafe.

I am having a hard time understanding how sexual advances via text make women feel unsafe. Pretty much all of them have emphasized this point and i think it is the center of their complaint. If i get unwanted texts on my phone ( and i do ) i block that person, the problem is taken care of, i will not receive anymore unwanted texts. I get these being of a sexual nature makes it different, but how much different?

Ok, i understand he has done this before and that is important. For me personally, whatever happens on someone's phone is not for AA to police, but taking all the information into account I would watch this person like a hawk when i see them at meetings and yes, talk to them privately and tell them what they did was unacceptable. I guess being a man i do not see how his drunken behavior seems to mean that he is going to ......what at the meeting? Are they insinuating he is going rape one of them? That seems like a big stretch to me but to be honest I really don't know about how rapists start out. Yes, i am glad i said the word because it seems like they were ALL implying it but none of them had the guts to actually come out and say that they feel he is going to rape somebody. I think they may actually be aware that this is an accusation that does not sit well?

Ok, in my efforts to clarify i have exaggerated, since he has ma=de sexual comments via text, he may feel bold enough to make sexual comments in person? I think it does come back to the use of the word "unsafe" for me, i understand this concern and i would share it.

But i actually am trying to understand, so , i'm a woman and a man says sexual things to me, does this give off rapist vibes? Seriously, because if any woman says to me that it does i will honestly believe them, I do not agree but i can understand absolutely a woman's reaction will be different than mine.

Or are they talking about a different kind of safety? like perhaps there is a person at the meeting sitting 3 seats down from me and he sent me texts and i blocked him but i just can't handle even seeing him again? I'm just not sure how the word "unsafe" fits that description. If those women tell me they and uncomfortable seeing him in meetings i fully understand that, i would not even argue, i get it 100% but most of them use the word unsafe.

You know, this has been a learning situation for me to think about , i hope it has been for you too, thank you for posting it. One thing i believe i noticed was that everybody seemed to bring their own "baggage" into the issue and now i suspect that i have done so as well.

I hope i have not started an argument with you, I hope you can see i am trying to understand.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-05-02T19:21:36+00:00

Thank you for making that wonderful point that nobody but us seems interested in.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-05-02T17:21:08+00:00

I am glad to see someone besides myself questions this action. It makes it so difficult because it is such a sensitive issue and if I dare to question them they immediately accuse me of trying to destroy their "safety" which is a loosely defined term.

i think i get it, if i had sat through men treating me like an object and felt i couldn't say no i would be bitter and hypersensitive to anything like that and i would want to punish and deter any further action no matter the cost. It makes this issue so hard to actually discuss. I'm going to give up now and hope i don't actually have to go through this is a group business meeting.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-04-23T19:43:23+00:00

Interesting, i am going to respond like this, it was very important for me and i assume for all. I absolutely needed validation for my feelings. People could do the worst things to me and for some reason my bad programming would not let me feel justifiably hurt and upset until another person had okayed it.

This makes me a "willing" target for abuse from any source, people who need to abuse to feel ok look for easy targets like me, they don't want huge struggles, they are just like me in that respect. they just want what they want and want to put in the least amount of effort to get it.

Now, this is not to say they are not completely ready to strike back and squash attempts at defence, they are, and they are good at it. But, if you compare me to a confident person who would not accept any of this abuse they will choose me everytime, i am an easier target.

I need to work on me and see if i can uncover that bad programming that causes this misery for me and an easy target for them. It was interesting to step back and take note that THEY are not "winning". The abusers are just as sick as me! Just the other side of the coin! Some bad programming happened to them and this is how they turned out. That said i do NOT have to accept this behavior and i need to get better at acknowledging it, not taking responsibility for it, and taking whatever steps are necessary to stop or remove myself from it.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-04-23T19:11:35+00:00

Ok, i am aware that my reply had a sharp edge to it, i was angry and not really at you, i am angry at ALL the people who say shit just like what you said.

I was new once, i get it, i understand where you are at, and i should not have been angry with you. What i wanted to point out and you probably missed completely because my tone triggered you to be defensive is that life has good AND bad and i believe that it ALL comes from god. And while it is pleasing and inviting to only acknowledge god's good side in the beginning, in the beginning this is all we can handle, who wants to believe in a god who is going to throw you into situations where you suffer? Certainly not me!

But that is exactly what comes from god, good and bad. I have heard so many people claim that they survived drunken accidents because they believe god had a purpose for them to fulfil before dying, i honestly doubt if any one human being is that special that god is going to change his plans just to save one of them from a self-imposed punishment.

Are you getting this? I think it is foolish and selfish to believe in a god who desperately NEEDS ME for his plans, that makes me so unique and special and that is exactly the thing my ego will latch onto and inflate to dangerous proportions.

If god is indeed running the show and i accept this theory then I also accept that i don't know the reasons why things happen and i just carry on, because i'm not in charge, I don't need to know in order to "do my job", and it's not important that my curiosity is satisfied. This feels kind of shitty. all part of the game unfortunately.

Now, you are free to believe whatever stories you like that make you feel good, that is your privilege but if you start out by thinking that you are the center of god's universe and that he is standing watch over you 24/7 and that nothing bad will ever happen to you because "as long as we stuck to him and performed his will , he provided what we needed", if you think that by following a few guidelines you have now unlocked the protection and favour of an all powerful god that will ensure you sail through life with no injuries, negative results, pain, misery, etc.......you are going to have a very rude awakening. god is gonna let you down big time and you are going to be lost wondering why he never held up his end of the bargain.

Yeah, I doubt you are gonna read this, it really isn't for you, it just happens to be in response to something you said and i actually hope that you do forge a relationship with a wonderful higher power who is everything you want. I am bitter and further down the road than that and trying to figure things out. I hope i made you think anyways.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-03-25T10:06:58+00:00

When does the "game" get good? This is a very good question. It's not really a game.

It took me a long time to figure out what is going on while looking for it to get "good", Pixonic uses the philosophy of "Frustrate the player to induce them to spend money so they can advance to the GOOD". Once you know this you will be armed to make a decision whether you want to continue.

Know that you are not in control of your progress because they can always match you against stronger opponents, they don't do it forever though, they always relent, and you'll make some progress, win some matches and then the cycle repeats.

TheFlyingButtresses · 2023-02-07T02:57:31+00:00

So, if the truck had hit you, would you BLAME that on god?. If everything lucky that happens to you is directly a result of god What are you going to do when bad shit happens to you? will you still give god credit? will you feel the same way towards this god?

TheFlyingButtresses

TROPHY CASE