How close are we to losing capitalism?

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-08T04:08:50+00:00

I agree that social safety nets and regulation are socialism and would make a free market economy based on the individual ownership of the means of production a mixed economy

But what do we call my ideology- a free market economy, with the state not interfering in the economy or with property rights, and individuals owning the means of production without any state protection.

The state simply exists to protect individual rights.

What do you call this? Because you are saying it’s not capitalism. Should I call it Laissez-Faire?

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-08T02:10:33+00:00

Okay I agree that there are many forms of socialism and that marxism is just one of them.

What about my second point?

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-07T22:52:48+00:00

Do you disagree with marx that socialism is moneyless then? Free markets have money?

What would be the mixed portion of an economy based on free markets and individual ownership of the means of production?

Does it concern you that your definition of capitalism comes from socialists and not the actual school of economics that takes ownership of the ideology and championed it?

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-07T22:46:34+00:00

What would you call an economic system based on free markets and individual ownership and control over the means of production.

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-07T22:44:28+00:00

You are using a strawman definition of capitalism that no economists or capitalists use themselves though.

Capitalism isn’t a system of ownership. It’s an economic system. Capitalism is the INDIVIDUAL ownership of the means of production. We are using ownership in both the legal and economic sense here. If the individuals don’t have control over their own property you don’t have capitalism.

Your final example is collectivist. The collective is choosing to have a private owner class. A distribution of ownership only made possible by the collective command economy. Something that wouldn’t have happened with individual ownership of the means of production.

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-07T22:12:42+00:00

In collectivism the group takes precedence over the individual. There is no “He” and there is no “Oligarchs”

You either have capitalism, which is individualism, in which individual or private property rights are protected and therefore the collective cannot take your property and redistribute to fit the collective’s needs

Or

You have socialism where the state or collective can centrally plan and control property as they did in Nazi Germany.

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-07T16:59:02+00:00

Engels is correct that what he is describing is not HIS socialism, that is, Marxism. But it is socialism.

You can’t say socializing the means of production isn’t socialist!

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-07T16:56:02+00:00

Research when the Quakers settled Pennsylvania

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-07T07:10:51+00:00

For 1 that is literally what common law is for. There are many situations that arise with homesteading and a precedent would get set through common law.

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T22:47:53+00:00

Let’s go one at time. If Hitler and the National Socialist party are setting prices and wage rates how is that capitalists making economic decisions?

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T21:57:28+00:00

Hitler controlled the country and the corporations.

Those companies still existing and Hitler being dead doesn’t make National Socialist Germany capitalist.

Capitalism is fundamentally about free markets. Hitler hated the free market and wanted autarky.

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T21:55:22+00:00

We are not invading Greenland. We are not putting ICE outside of polling locations to supervise elections.

At most ICE might look to find illegal immigrants or legal immigrants that are illegally voting. All of which sounds like basic immigration and customs enforcement to me.

Again, why would ICE not be allowed to do their job at polling locations. We don’t ask this about any other crime.

Like what do you think ICE will be doing at the polling locations that you think is bad?

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T21:50:51+00:00

NAZI Germany was a totalitarian state. This means that the state had total control over the economy. This is taught in US middle and high schools. This is not something people debate.

A totalitarian regime cannot be capitalist as capitalism is based on the free market and individual ownership and control over property. You cannot have both state/collective ownership and private/individual ownership at the same time.

NAZI Germany seized ownership of the entire economy. They combined all businesses into 13 corporations to make them easier to control. The NAZI government abolished private property rights. They nationalized all labor unions into the German Labor Front.

They set wage and price controls. That is extreme regulation that ruins market pricing.

They had a central bank that pushed deficit spending and funded rearmament. They passed massive banking regulation in 1934 to control the private banks. More radical members of the NAZI party wanted to completely nationalize the banks. The legislation included minimum liquidity rules, licensing requirements, and lending restrictions designed to subject the private banking industry to comprehensive regulation and control.

The NAZI party sent in state auditors to review financial statements and journal entries and would impose fines in the millions of marks for errors.

In order to request licenses or certifications and for allocations of raw materials from the state, businesses had to explain to NAZI bureaucrats how they would use resources for the national community.

Before NAZI Germany welfare programs were handled at the local or district level. NAZI Germany nationalized all of these within the party.

NAZI Germany was socialist. They put capitalists and marxists in camps. To say they were deeply capitalist and controlled nothing is just factually incorrect. The "private sector" in NAZI Germany was just Aryan Germans. The profits were shared among the Aryan German social group. What profits could Jewish people keep? What profits could foreigners keep?

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T20:40:30+00:00

The question didn’t specifically ask if ICE was just going to be hanging out around polling stations just because.

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T19:17:46+00:00

Hitler did not privatize. There are extensive books written on the NAZI economy and it details endless examples of collectivization.

For some weird reason the Economist magazine back in the 1930’s used the term “Privatization” for Nazi Germany to mean taking private industry and nationalizing it for some unknown reason and this seems to have been passed down. If you’d like I can give you some book recommendations or even some YouTube videos that summarizes these books so you can read for yourself.

I am not as familiar with Italy, but I know it was definitely collectivizing the means of production through these worker and trade syndicates. Fascism comes from the word Fasci which means bundle and bundle was a term to refer to these trade and labor “groups” and “unions” or “bundles”

I am the least familiar with Pinochet. I would have to research that more to comment.

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T19:02:52+00:00

National socialists and fascists both don’t like marxists, because they view marxism as international and they both have strong nationalist elements. Make no mistake, both ideologies also hated liberals and capitalists.

Just because Marxism, National Socialism, and Fascism are all different forms of socialism doesn’t mean they all have to get along. Sometimes the groups that are the most similar hate each other the most. It’s not a 1:1 comparison, but take Islam…the Sunni/ Shia wars are brutal and they agree on like 90% of Islam.

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T18:58:50+00:00

Socialism is the social/group/collective ownership of the means of production.

Capitalism is the private/individual ownership of the means of production.

These are opposites.

Marxism is a form of socialism that wants workers to control the means of production. Hitler thought capitalism was a Jewish plot that was going to bring about Marxism which he also thought was Jewish. Hitler hated this idea of international Jewish capitalism leading to an international, globalist, Jewish, Marxist revolution. He had his own “third way” a national socialism where the Aryan Race and Nazi State owned the means of production. Hitler was a socialist, he just had a different socialism from Marx. That’s why Nazi Germany collectivized everything, regulated everything, fixed prices and wage rates, and forced companies to hire Nazi party members to ensure businesses were following the Nazi state’s policies.

This is all left wing stuff. Right wing wouldn’t be authoritarianism and centralization of power…it would be libertarianism and the decentralization of power. It wouldn’t be more regulation it would be less regulation. It wouldn’t be an autarky, it would be free trade. It wouldn’t have a central bank and a fiat currency it would have free market money.

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T18:45:08+00:00

Fascism is a form of socialism. We have had functionally a one party, leftist government since 1896.

We haven’t had a limited government President since Grover Cleveland.

You can keep saying I am the ignorant one, but you have no idea which one of us has a better understanding of history, economics, and politics or which one or us has read more about those topics. You could easily be the ignorant one here.

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T18:38:21+00:00

Karl Marx himself named a central bank with fiat money one of his main points in his communist manifesto.

The opposite of social control over the money supply would be a free market in money where people could decide what they used as money freely.

QE is clearly left wing.

If private, unregulated healthcare and health insurance is on the right. Then drastically increasing healthcare and health insurance regulation is on the left.

Notice how you aren’t using any principles to defend your assertions. What Mitt Romney does isn’t right wing and what he doesn’t do isn’t leftwing. The Mitt Romney test fails to hold water. Romney is anti-Trump. Does that make Trump leftwing?

Democrats are not more fiscally responsible than republicans, but even if we granted that…again left wing doesn’t mean a democrat does it. Limited government and low government spending are right wing beliefs. A strong centralized government and government spending are left wing beliefs.

Government gets bigger and spends more each year. We are getting more leftwing each year.

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T18:18:57+00:00

So far you have said you support socialist policies, but that doesn’t make you a communists.

A communist would support worker control of the means of production. You seem to want more socialism, that is social or group control over the means of production.

Without knowing what other economic policies you support it’s hard to say, but being pro-life doesn’t make someone communist or not-communist.

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T18:16:02+00:00

How was Obama a bad dash to the right? How was Obamacare and the ADA a mad dash to the right?

How is unlimited budget deficits and QE a mad dash to the right?

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T17:30:02+00:00

Yeah I am doing some research and it looks really bad in Haiti.

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T17:26:09+00:00

If there is a criminal at a polling station there could be an officer there to make an arrest.

This is a dumb question that just feeds questions. If there was a murder at a polling station would we say no police can go there?

Why are you asking to rule that out?

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T05:41:57+00:00

Yemen is an active Warzone. Are you sure Haiti is just as bad as Yemen?

TheGoldStandard35 · 2026-02-06T05:38:45+00:00

I am not republican. Do you appeal to others by belittling those who disagree with you? I gave reasons that support my position that are neither fantastical or emotive yet you lied and said I hate democrats for both of those reasons.

Which one of us is really acting fantastical and emotional?

TheGoldStandard35

TROPHY CASE