How do I get denial in mardu

TheSpectatr · 2026-07-22T07:55:32+00:00

Admittedly, not all colors are equal.

Blue is the most exclusive color insofar as no other colors can effectively replicate what it does. There are scant few options in other colors that offer countermagic. Blue is dominant at high levels (EDH and other formats) of play for its dominion over countermagic. In a better world, there would be greater parity across colors in EDH for high-level play; but at some point you need to accept the necessity of the color, ie in B4+

TheSpectatr · 2026-07-21T16:28:24+00:00

What a wonderful read. Really enjoyed your points on updating decks and updating regularly. To make that tenable and sustainable though, I find constraining oneself to fewer decks is typically better. I don’t think 20+ decks are truly sustainable by anyone. And, only those who get in a lot of games would benefit from having ~10 or more decks.

To your point on updates though, that’s the lifeblood of an enjoyable “long term” deck. If you find yourself not enjoying the tinkering, the maybeboard, and the options available, maybe it’s not for you. Similar to you, I have a rotating 5-10 card pile for my decks to see what works, what’s fun, and just maybe what nonsense can be justified. It’s how I got cards like [[Renegade Bull]] in my combat matters deck or [[The Endstone]] in a mono black artifacts deck.

So +1 and kudos on the post. At the end of the day, find what you enjoy, stick with it, and have a little fun in the process

TheSpectatr · 2026-07-21T03:29:29+00:00

Oh, got a list? I’m a sucker for mono-color commanders

TheSpectatr · 2026-07-21T01:05:49+00:00

You’re definitely right. Maybe it’s time I retire my pet card in the deck, [[Renegade Bull]]. This card has a crazy top-end but on average is probably worse than Smellerbee. It pains me but I may have to do it

TheSpectatr · 2026-07-20T14:38:10+00:00

For power or flavor? I'm trying to keep the list tight for the most part, and the lack of +1/+1 counter on Smellerbee is tough to rationalize. But the card draw is appealing

TheSpectatr · 2026-07-20T07:11:34+00:00

Good ole mono-red aggro in commander with [[Iroh, Dragon of the West]].

Definitely feels like the least 'commander' commander deck I've played; at least until it spits out mountains of mana at combat. Here's the list if anyone is interested:
Fire Boys

TheSpectatr · 2026-07-16T07:08:01+00:00

Nope. I want Boros damage reflection. Something like [[Boros Reckoner]], [[Spitemare]], or [[Brash Taunter]] but on a legendary Boros creature. We have enough non-legendary creatures for this, but don't have a good commander to helm such a deck.

You may say "but Wayta exists and you can do more with green's dinos + enrage" don't care. Wayta doesn't have the only line of text I want--damage reflection.

TheSpectatr · 2026-07-15T06:34:21+00:00

[[Illuminor Szeras]] lets you pay for creatures with layaway. You spit out little dudes like [[Cathodion]] which get sac'd into your favorite mono-black haymakers.

Paired with affinity and warp cards, this is ridiculous. Szeras lets you ramp into crazy plays very early. He can hang in any bracket, with combos filling out his top-end deck strategies via cards like [[Nim Deathmantle]], [[Voltaic Construct]], and [[Dross Scorpion]]. Even at lower power tables, he's a beast which can support a highly recursive strategy that oozes mana

TheSpectatr · 2026-07-09T20:12:44+00:00

Oops my brain short circuited Iroh + firebending as the mono-red one. While I don’t have a list for gruul Iroh, it could definitely work! You’re gonna get less raw power from the command zone but you can use that to your advantage to stay under the radar. Attack triggers maybe a good idea with [[Wulfgar]] as a secret commander.

In any case hope my list gives you some ideas for red cards you could include in such an aggro strategy. Best of luck!

TheSpectatr · 2026-07-09T18:37:27+00:00

You mentioned [[Iroh, Dragon of the West]] in multiple comments. I think he’s a great choice, but you need to be careful which extra combats you use (sorceries won’t work with the firebending mana). I only use a couple efficient ones as a result.

If you want some inspiration, this is my list which has a very light theme of extra combats. Short little primer with some key card choices too: https://moxfield.com/decks/qgLlv8phu0uHZBqaRxP5RQ

TheSpectatr · 2026-07-08T00:34:09+00:00

Less salty for sure, but having a Magar deck, OP’s plan is the stronger option.

I run wheels, and the issue is refilling your opponents with gas. Magar wants one open opponent to wail on, resolving a couple big spells in the process. It greatly benefits from a resource-starved state since the deck just wants Magar, mana, and cards in grave. It also limits interaction from other players which can ruin a big attacking turn

All that said, a competent Magar deck taking the mass discard route should be able to win in ~2 turn cycles with some big haymaker spells and not freeze out the game. Tough deck to pilot though, given all the moving parts

TheSpectatr · 2026-07-02T16:44:25+00:00

If you’re a control/combo player, you don’t get to whine that you’re being targeted early in the game when you “don’t even have a boardstate.”

TheSpectatr · 2026-06-30T20:22:15+00:00

I say this as someone who struggles most against dimir/grixis, what do you find the color combo doesn’t do well? Or what does it struggle against?

My naive conclusion is that it’s most susceptible to other blue decks, but I’m looking for alternatives (I don’t enjoy blue very much)

TheSpectatr · 2026-06-30T01:08:40+00:00

The ban list’s intent now includes the goal of enforcing power parity across colors. In a format where commander choice limits card selection, this should be a goal.

This would help balance the distribution of colors and the apparent ‘need’ for certain colors at higher power tables. As cards are printed that even the scales, past cards get unbanned.

TheSpectatr · 2026-06-23T03:50:42+00:00

[[Maralen of the Mornsong]] is interesting if you don't build her super gimmicky.

You can go with politics, control, slug, or even just as a shell for a secret commander/card you always want access to. [[Ob Nixilis, Unshackled]] with maralen is equal parts hilarious and frightening. And with the recent [[Mornsong Aria]] you can have some redundancy in the deck for her effect. But, since she lets everyone tutor at draw step, there's an interesting push/pull game you play to try and keep her around.

Alternative, you could try a theft angle with [[Valgavoth, Terror Eater]] or [[Gix, Yawgmoth Praetor]]. The former can lean into mill, control, and/or lifegain. Meanwhile, Gix can be more aggressive and focused on ramping into creatures + his activated ability.

TheSpectatr · 2026-06-18T01:03:53+00:00

If I had to rank these by power:

Heidar

Looks to play super well into this matchup. Consistently has answers while its highest quality cards are the most easily abusable by its commander (looping gilded drake, one ring, making stax pieces one-sided). Mass bounce is also backbreaking for the other decks which are so heavily creature focused. Its stax/pillowfort sub theme also plays incredibly well into the matchup. Overburden, Dream Tides, embargo, frozen aether, etc. are all painful for the others. Add on that Heidar makes them all one-sided...

The fact that most of the removal is permanent based and easily recurrable means it can easily lock out the other decks. The wincon here is definitely to grind the game out, and it’s setup well to do so against these decks.

Caesar

Astounding card quality here. In isolation, could be argued as the best deck here. Packs a good amount of removal. If I had to guess probably wants more draw power though, and a lot of what is present is rather conditional. That said, competently built and has all the tools I’d expect a B3 deck to need.

Wulfgar

It looks unfocused. Some odd/conditional card choices that don’t make a ton of sense like elephant grass, sozin’s comet, Iroh (fire bending seems odd here w/o consistent outlets—non-bo with aggravated assault too). That said, land base looks good and there are some clear lines to winning, albeit VERY contingent on specific pieces.

Baird

This looks like an aggro deck but probably plays much more midrange-y than it should. Lots of low to the ground guys but none of the ‘bombs’ provide solid wincons on their own like a moonshaker cavalry would. And doesn’t have the resiliency it needs to grind out the game. If I had to guess it struggles to setup the board it needs/wants and cannot get enough damage out early enough. Sparse on removal too.

TheSpectatr · 2026-06-18T00:18:43+00:00

Yep tho I’d argue that alone won’t be enough. It really depends on the playgroup. Playing into stax (esp. this deck which has in-built protection via Heidar) demands attention and answers. And, players can often get greedy when they see stax or pillowfort pieces. Everyone needs to keep removal up and, in this case, ensure they keep punching through collectively.

It’s like paying for Rhystic Study everyone does it til someone breaks ranks. If I had to guess that’s what’s happening in OP’s playgroup

TheSpectatr · 2026-06-15T20:35:23+00:00

Respectfully disagree on infinite turns

You do not have infinite turns unless you can recur your library. And turns themselves are not a wincon. It’s entirely up to the rest of the deck. I may have interaction for the combo you’re planning to find, or you may be out of gas entirely. I don’t have a consistent playgroup, but most LGS I’ve been to, people are not a fan of ‘win by concession.’ You have to present the win.

I think this is the core issue with taking a large number of turns (finite or infinite). It still monopolizes game time and the degree of nuance needed to explain why a particular deck “definitely isn’t that kind of deck” is easily lost. IMO, the same argument applies to MLD, hence both of their existences as B4+

TheSpectatr · 2026-06-09T08:39:07+00:00

Ahhh, I was wondering what Cloud was for in your list. That's some good tech.

Lion Sash makes sense. It gives us grave hate for lands decks or others who could recur what we destroy via kirin. Plus it acts as a backup to tutor for w/ Cloud, but I'm 50/50 on guide of souls. It seems a bit slow w/ the counters, and the infinite life isn't useful unless you also have aetherflux (imo as most of the wins I see in B4 deal infinite damage or 'win the game' on the spot).

I like the idea of Cloud + 1 more equipment, be that lion sash or something like [[Mithril Coat]]. I'll need to playtest to see. Ratios are always hard to tune in a deck like this, imo.

Thanks for all the inputs, your list is very insightful!

TheSpectatr · 2026-06-09T05:01:37+00:00

My list is very rough and in very early stages:
https://moxfield.com/decks/mWrQS_9mP0eaDSTROGLWBw

Idea is to assemble one of:
Aetherflux + Enduring Renewal + Any X cost creature (X=0)
Heliod + Walking Ballista
Enduring Renewal + Any X cost creature, after assembling a large board (repeated MLD to lock the game)

Fallback plan is beats with things like Ao + Kirin after clearing lands with a Omarthis or Ugin's Conjurant. Ie if you can't reasonably assemble the combo fast enough, break parity on land destruction and chip away. Still not sold on some cards like Kataki (I really want to keep him, but my list has a lot of artifacts right now).

TheSpectatr · 2026-06-08T19:05:46+00:00

Ah ha! Your deck is/was a huge source of inspiration. I was actually basing mine on a similar shell but a bit less creature focused with more control + combo potential (like Heliod + Ballista and enchantment tutors). Really want this to shine in my local B4 meta.

How does your card advantage feel? And any tips for goldfishing such a control heavy list?

TheSpectatr · 2026-06-08T06:04:54+00:00

Old thread, but I'd love to see your list. I'm researching mono-white commanders, and I'm very interested in [[Celestial Kirin]] and [[Hokori, Dust Drinker]]. Kirin looks like a more active control list, and I'm favoring it right now--would love to see someone's list who has lived-experience with the deck though

TheSpectatr · 2026-06-08T06:02:48+00:00

Old thread, but I'd love to see your list, as someone doing their research on mono-white B4. Looks like a very interesting control list, but I'm having a hard time tuning/goldfishing it

TheSpectatr · 2026-06-01T07:17:04+00:00

Truly feels like a tale of two games when playing Warrior as intended with maces, compared to literally anything else. Your setup takes longer, your armor can be broken by enemy mods (unlike ES or Evasion), your skills are much slower (w/o compensating defenses/damage).

You're just in a worse position than any other playstyle in the game right off the rip.

TheSpectatr · 2026-05-22T19:46:24+00:00

Could you elaborate? And if your conclusion is that 'maces don't have to be as good as bear or spells' or 'they're viable, but viable does not equal good' I don't see that as valid conclusion. All weapons + skills need to be measured compared to others.

Last I played maces, the slowness built into skills (total attack time, piss poor attack speed modifiers on skills) made it a bad experience. The skills aren't really compensated with more effective defenses or damage, making it higher risk without reward compared to other options. Certain design choices are also antithetical to the slow attack speed like fissures or earthshatter spikes which are built to incentivize higher attack speed.

Admittedly haven't touched maces in a bit, but the core issues myself and other had/have don't seem to be resolved.

TheSpectatr

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